Why the hatred?!

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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NeptuneKai
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Post by NeptuneKai » Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:39 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:I find the responses in the threads concerning Broli very insulting.
Right..

Because you're Broli, and because people are making fun of a fictional character, they are somehow also making fun of you :roll:.
You don't just expect this sort of thing after awhile? :lol:
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Post by rereboy » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:09 pm

Amigo Ten wrote:I liked movie 8, i Just think Broli's potential as a character is wasted. It's a good backstory up the point where Goku crying drives him mad. The whole being betrayed by the King and secret murder and fear of the Super Saiyan stuff is a great set up, but it's wasted. There should have been a split in the Saiyan ranks. Those who agreed with the King that Broli was too big a danger and needed to be dealt, and those who believed he would be their saviour. The group who believed in Broli would have been exiled, or fled with the baby after his attempted murder or something, and established a new Planet Vegeta with Broli as their God.

Then when they hear Freeza has been defeated by a Super Saiyan, Broli would be really pissed off and go searching for him to prove his dominance and cement himself as THE Super Saiyan.
That would be sweet.

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Son_GokouSSJ4
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Post by Son_GokouSSJ4 » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm

I'm kinda surprised most people here find Broli stupid, retarded, etc...

And even more surprising is that they think he has no background story, yadda yadda.

Are you serious?

I mean, just because he constantly shouts "Kakarotto" and all, doesn't mean he's dumb or retarded. The guy is just completely obsessed and obviously it's not because Goku cried next to him and made him go insane (LOL), it obviously has some deeper meaning like being born on the same day or whatever. Probably he hates Goku for the peaceful life he was granted even being an inferior warrior, while he had to struggle and suffer during his upbringing.

About the power thing, for fuck's sake, he is the LEGENDARY super-saiyan! Of course he has to be overrated! But taking video-game intros into consideration? Please...
Do you think Mr. Satan can beat all SSJ's? Cos I can whip their asses with Mr. Satan nine ways till Sunday on any video-game!

Seriously, and I'm not even a big Broli fan, but this whole "hate" Broli thing kinda becomes ridiculous sometimes. Reminds me of the "which Buu is stronger?" crap.
Last edited by Son_GokouSSJ4 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rod
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Post by Rod » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:23 pm

Son_GokouSSJ4 wrote:About the power thing, for fuck's sake, he is the LEGENDAY super-saiyan!
I don't want to start a flame war, but technicaly, no because he's not manga or anime canon

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Son_GokouSSJ4
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Post by Son_GokouSSJ4 » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:29 pm

...so should we assume that everything that happens in the movies is like...alternative universe or something like it?
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Rory
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Post by Rory » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:30 pm

Son_GokouSSJ4 wrote:...so should we assume that everything that happens in the movies is like...alternative universe or something like it?
Well, that's what I do.

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Son_GokouSSJ4
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Post by Son_GokouSSJ4 » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:33 pm

Well, ok, fair enough. It's just that I never looked at DB movies that way.

But even so, I still don't understand the hate thing. But hey, I also hate Cell and no one is complaining. :lol:
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Post by Bussani » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:49 pm

Son_GokouSSJ4 wrote:I mean, just because he constantly shouts "Kakarotto" and all, doesn't mean he's dumb or retarded. The guy is just completely obsessed and obviously it's not because Goku cried next to him and made him go insane (LOL), it obviously has some deeper meaning like being born on the same day or whatever. Probably he hates Goku for the peaceful life he was granted even being an inferior warrior, while he had to struggle and suffer during his upbringing.
You say it's obvious, but the movie never even hints at anything that deep, does it? And in the next movie he was in he mistook Goten got 'Kakarotto', so if he was playing with a full bag of marbles in the first movie, he probably wasn't after that.
About the power thing, for fuck's sake, he is the LEGENDARY super-saiyan!
The idea that there has to be 1, singular 'Legendary Super Saiyajin' seems silly to me. Super Saiyajin was the legend. Some people think it would be better if Goku was the only one to get it (thus becoming THE legendary Super Saiyajin), but the fact that other people attained it too doesn't stop it being the legendary form. It was a legend, after all.

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Post by Saiyan-Professor » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:53 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:I find the responses in the threads concerning Broli very insulting.
Right..

Because you're Broli, and because people are making fun of a fictional character, they are somehow also making fun of you :roll:.
No, it was the comment about Broli fans that I found insulting. Dude are you just trying to be funny or is something else wrong with you?
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Post by Kid Trunks » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:55 pm

I just hate the constant clothesline attack he does. His fights are pretty boring.

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Rory
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Post by Rory » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:13 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Captain Awesome wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:I find the responses in the threads concerning Broli very insulting.
Right..

Because you're Broli, and because people are making fun of a fictional character, they are somehow also making fun of you :roll:.
No, it was the comment about Broli fans that I found insulting. Dude are you just trying to be funny or is something else wrong with you?
You did leave the responce a little vauge, it's easy to misinterprit.
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Post by Raki » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:18 pm

Movie 11 is greatness. I don't give a fuck about what anybody says. Personally I think they did a good job of parodying an already over the top character.
The series doesn't start with the arrival of Raditz. Stop being lazy and watch Dragonball.

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Post by A-dono » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:17 pm

Don't know what I can say that hasn't already been said, but I generally dislike Broli for these reasons:

-He was a good concept that was executed poorly. I liked his back story and how his powers were a bit different from the usual SSJ-spam we'd been getting in the main story at that time, but all this was wasted on a character template that was about as eloquent as the average rapper.

-He's essentially an amalgamation of all of Z's worst aspects. Instead of tactics, technique, and cunning, Broli is all "ZOMG! LOOK AT MY BULGING ROIDED MUSCLES OF MASS DESTRUCTION, I GOT POWER COMING OUT MY RECTUM!!!", which is essentially what Z came to be about after the battle with Radditz. He also spams with that one stupid-looking ki attack, also what Z-era characters developed a tendency towards.

-He looked fucking ridiculous at full-power, basically a massively deformed Mirai Trunks after consuming a truckload of performance enhancing drugs.

For the record, I don't think all Broli fans are "slobbering 12-year-olds," but I do think a lot of them tend to be over the top and extremist in their views.

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Post by Kunzait_83 » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:28 pm

I don’t hate Brolli. I’ve NEVER hated Brolli. The specific kind of fanbase he's developed over the past few years that people here are talking about never swayed my opinion on the character or his movies any, probably for the simple reason that I saw movie 8 and had already long since liked both the movie and the character many, many years before the kind of fanbase people associate with this particular character ever existed.

Do I particularly LOVE Brolli as a favorite character of some sort? Not really. He’s pretty cool for what he is. Nothing more, nothing less. The motive for his hatred for Son Goku is… ridiculously bizarre (though I suppose fittingly animalistic considering the Saiya-jin race). But aside from that, all the back story with Paragus and King Vegeta is perfectly cool with me (and it gave us the image of a shadowed silhouette of an infant getting knifed in Dragon Ball, which makes it impossible for me to hate it all the more).

And I like Brolli’s design a lot, primarily for his clothing, which coupled with his physique lends a very “titan”-ish flavor to his appearance which makes him stand out as visually unique in the series for me in spite of his being yet another SSJ character. And his manner of fighting never bothered me either, nor do I see it as detracting from the “martial arts” aspect of Dragon Ball in any way; quite the opposite actually.

Brolli is essentially Dragon Ball’s Bolo Yeung-type of character. And honestly, how can ANYONE hate Bolo Yeung or anything that remotely resembles him? :P No long running, martial arts epic is complete without a brutish “Bolo” fighter of some sort (a warrior who’s less axed on traditional martial arts finesse and acts more as a walking tank, preferring block attacks with his grin, shatter bones, tear ligaments, and puncture vital organs), and Brolli fits that bill nicely. Hell, even his name sounds vaguely similar enough to “Bolo”. :lol:

In short, I’ve nothing against Brolli himself or his movies. The particular specific “type” of fanbase people on here are speaking about? Yeah, THEY’RE fucking annoying. No question.

But they don’t ruin my enjoyment of Brolli or movies 8 and 10 for a very simple reason: I liked the character and the movies a good many years before they were ever a factor. It’s the same exact reason why I’m still a fan of the Dragon Ball franchise itself, and why the dub and it’s particular fan-culture has never driven me away: it was already a much loved piece of my childhood way before they ever entered into the picture. Too long a time spent being a fan, hence much too late for any of them or any other online fanboy bullshit to spoil any of it for me.
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piccolo-san785
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Post by piccolo-san785 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:20 am

How can you not hate him I mean just look at him BASTARD!!

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Post by BrollysKin » Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:07 am

My screen name would imply I don't hate him...
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Post by Teclo » Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:29 am

I don't have a problem with him but I do agree that he's like the mascot of the stereotypical 14-year-old DBZ fan - that said, my opinion of him now is that same as when I was 14; it's not like I was like "OH HE'S SO AWESOME" or anything back then. On one hand, it seems odd to hate that kind of character when you're a fan of an anime which is about people going blond, powering up, screaming a lot and then beating the shit out of each other. However, there's a lot more to DBZ than that (it's kind of like Peter Jackson's LotR in that it pays great attention to the setting and atmosphere, whereas if all DBZ was like Broly, it'd be a Michael Bay LotR - 12 hours of sword fighting and explosions) and Broly, and the story surrounding him, seems to lose all the stuff that makes DB/DBZ great outside of the "ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT KURIRIN?!" moments.

For that reason, I actually like movie 10 the most of the "Broly Trilogy". I found the first Broly movie to be to badly paced and, forgive me if I'm remembering it incorrectly, but the whole plot of luring the characters to that planet just for Broly to fight them felt really...well, "shit" is an appropriate word here. It was like how many things in DB Evolution (well, everything) felt totally different from how DB(Z) should feel. That said, Broly was an actual character rather than an icon for everything cliché about DBZ. And I totally agree with what someone said about him being like a ticking time-bomb in this movie. In the others he's just like "RARGH MUST PUNCH THINGS".

Movie 10 actually had this nice adventure feel to it and, for me, Broly is pretty much besides the point. The fight scene is mainly comedy and is more about the set piece of Trunks distracting Broly while Goten looks for the Dragon Balls. It really gets away from the "My punch is better than your punch!" thing. OK, it sort of goes like that at the end but for the most part, for me, it's the classic DB adventure kind of feel; like Dragon Quest mixed with shounen.

But Bio Broly? Fuck that film, right in the face. I can't even enjoy it in a "so bad it's good way" - although I guess I do like the start where 18 is arguing/threatening Mr Satan and then the beginning of the "tournament" seemed to promise something quite a lot better than a purple blob in a factory full of INFINITE GUNK, in fact, MAGIC INFINITE GUNK that would kill even SSJ4 Gogeta. No offence to the people that do like it; please explain why you like it and I'll genuinely listen and try to see it from that point of view.

Two last points, to wrap this up: the whole Legendary Super Saiyajin thing just seems like the movie staff misunderstood that the notion of SSJ was legendary rather than there's a particular individual. It also doesn't make sense because, essentially, Broly keeps losing to the other SSJs and would eventually be taken apart like a plasticine man by the other SSJs in a one-on-one. The other point in that my friend is actually a big Broly fan but not in a dumb kind of way; he just like how he's an embodiment of raw power. Even Vegeta has his regal sort of way and his pride and all that. Broly just wants to hurt people and doesn't care how. I guess I can appreciate that because it's a different aspect to the SSJ thing - the other SSJs all cover different bases.

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Post by Raki » Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:54 am

Teclo wrote:But Bio Broly? Fuck that film, right in the face. I can't even enjoy it in a "so bad it's good way" - although I guess I do like the start where 18 is arguing/threatening Mr Satan and then the beginning of the "tournament" seemed to promise something quite a lot better than a purple blob in a factory full of INFINITE GUNK, in fact, MAGIC INFINITE GUNK that would kill even SSJ4 Gogeta. No offence to the people that do like it; please explain why you like it and I'll genuinely listen and try to see it from that point of view.
I like the fact that it's totally different than all of the other Dragonball films. The lab setting was cool and Broly was turned into a parody cause you know Dragonball is gag manga. Trunks and Goten beat the Broly mess by using their brains and not some random "pull this funky ki attack out my ass" move. It had a great score and lesser known characters got their time to shine. I loved the movie and it's my second favorite of all the movies. People hate it because they were expected another Broly rampage and what they got was a rampaging mess of a villian. That villian being totally different than all the other ones. Toei does something different and then people shit on it in favor of another cookie cutter Dragonball movie.
The series doesn't start with the arrival of Raditz. Stop being lazy and watch Dragonball.

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Post by Levlik » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:25 am

The only thing I like about movie 11 is its music. As bad as the movie is, some of the best Buu arc music comes from it.

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Post by Son_GokouSSJ4 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:26 am

Bussani wrote: You say it's obvious, but the movie never even hints at anything that deep, does it? And in the next movie he was in he mistook Goten got 'Kakarotto', so if he was playing with a full bag of marbles in the first movie, he probably wasn't after that.
I both agree and disagree with you on some points here.

About being obvious or not, I just think that we're supposed to put 2 and 2 together. I mean, you don't expect for everything that IS indeed supposed to be meant (be it canon or not) to be explained in the daizenshuus or whatever other reliable source we have?

About Broli having lost his marbles, I have to agree with you on this one.
On his second movie he really seemed out(er) of it. He really couldn't distinguish anyone (Son family at least) no more. But hey, you try to be stuck 7 years in ice and then come and talk to me! :D
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