Why was anyone surprised Vegeta could turn SSJ?

[Bussani]

I think the boring explanation is that sensing ki to those capable is kind of like having the radio on in the background. You're aware that it's there but you're not really paying attention. If someone turned it off, you'd notice (equivalent to if everyone on earth suddenly died, you'd sense the sudden lack of ki), but then if someone asks "What did the DJ just say?" you'd have no idea. However, if the DJ suddenly started addressing you or said "several nukes have just been launched at [insert your country here]", you'd suddenly "sense" his words and listen to it.

However, whatever he said, if someone else was speaking to you or if you're otherwise occupied (e.g. playing a game, reading a book) you're not going to notice. All that said, just like with ki, you can bring your full attention to it if you want to. In fact, it's kind of like how I'm trying to listen to some of the podcasts as I post on the forums but I keep mentally phasing out the podcast as I focus on writing. I can only listen to it if I don't do things that also involve a thought process. All the same, if Mike suddenly screamed or started singing Fly Me To The Moon, I'd suddenly be like "WTF?", the equivalent of "Oh no, what a terrible ki I sense" or "I feel a disturbance in the force".

I agree, but I think people's points are that something like Super Saiyajin should stand out. It would be the equivalent of having the radio on in the background, then the volume suddenly turning up to the max. You'd think it would be hard to miss.

[Teclo]

Hmm, OK, well to continue with the radio analogy, it is like the radio suddenly being turned up but (a) there's already a lot of noise - way more than what the radio's now putting out, and (b) no one's even trying to listen to what the radio's saying. I get the feeling that this explanation won't hold water when you actually look at other individual cases, but the combined power level of Earth would be around 30 billion, so adding another few million via SSJ Vegeta wouldn't be all that noticeable unless people were specifically "scanning" for ki.

That said, I'm going to actually argue with myself and say that people should have been on high alert for any sudden changes in ki or "concentrated ki" (i.e. individuals with high PLs rather than just lots of little PLs adding up) because they'd been warned about these powerful androids turning up any time soon.

[Vaeran]

I think the argument that a Super Saiyajin transformation could go unnoticed is contradicted by the fact that even people like Kuririn, Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chaozu were able to sense Freeze and Cold's arrival, and they hadn't even reached Earth yet. Anything with that magnitude of power on the planet's surface is going to ping everyone's radar.

[Bussani]

I think the argument that a Super Saiyajin transformation could go unnoticed is contradicted by the fact that even people like Kuririn, Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chaozu were able to sense Freeze and Cold's arrival, and they hadn't even reached Earth yet. Anything with that magnitude of power on the planet's surface is going to ping everyone's radar.

Logically, I would think so too.

There is more to ki than just size, though. Freeza's is an evil ki. Maybe not demonic, but it carries evil intent. Maybe that bloodlust they could feel in it helped make it stand out. Powerful intent to kill and get revenge, you know?

[Thanos]

I think some may see it as a surprise that, here's a guy that probably could've been killed at some point after all the lucky breaks he had. He was a villain, and his transformation to Super Saiyajin solidified his position as a permanent character.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

He was a villain, and his transformation to Super Saiyajin solidified his position as a permanent character.

Yes. Toriyama loved his murdering character so he kept him.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Yeah, there are a good few instances where an incredibly huge Chi is somehow not sensed. I'd say no one sensed Vegeta's Chi due to their extreme focus on training for the Androids. They seem to be distracted when they're focused (Like the guys were when Piccolo merged with Kami) on other areas.

[Kroni_Hunter]

Yeah, there are a good few instances where an incredibly huge Chi is somehow not sensed. I'd say no one sensed Vegeta's Chi due to their extreme focus on training for the Androids. They seem to be distracted when they're focused (Like the guys were when Piccolo merged with Kami) on other areas.

Also when Piccolo merged with Nail. They couldn't even sense a nearby PL equal to the "incredible force" they were at battle with.

[Sunlight & City Night]

I always got the feeling from the anime that Vegeta's Super Saiyan transformation was simply from a survival standpoint.

I remember him spouting a load of shit in his explanation in the dub but I can't remember what he said in the original version to explain his transformation.

He had a giant asteroid about to smack him in the face so he transformed under the extreme stress to deal with it. He evolved to survive.

Regarding his comment that his heart was "Pure evil!" and that's how he transformed. I actually don't buy, how many times have we seen massive bravado and egotistical displays from Vegeta.
By that point in the series I don't think he was pure evil.

Maybe they didn't feel it on earth because his transformation was a specifically personal one.

Maybe I'm looking too far into it there though!

[Vegeta Jr]

I always got the feeling from the anime that Vegeta's Super Saiyan transformation was simply from a survival standpoint.

I remember him spouting a load of shit in his explanation in the dub but I can't remember what he said in the original version to explain his transformation.

He had a giant asteroid about to smack him in the face so he transformed under the extreme stress to deal with it. He evolved to survive.

Regarding his comment that his heart was "Pure evil!" and that's how he transformed. I actually don't buy, how many times have we seen massive bravado and egotistical displays from Vegeta.
By that point in the series I don't think he was pure evil.

Maybe they didn't feel it on earth because his transformation was a specifically personal one.

Maybe I'm looking too far into it there though!

Actually he transformed AFTER the Asteroid was destroyed. I don't think being pure is a prerequisite anyway, that's just some bull explanation Krillin made up to explain why only Goku had transformed, remember Saiyans were ****** and there were legends of the transformation which means it had to have come from an actual source.

It's just a sudden surge of extreme emotions that seem to trigger the transformation.

[Sunlight & City Night]

It's just a sudden surge of extreme emotions that seem to trigger the transformation.

Hence why I said I felt it could be a metaphor for evolution. In Vegeta's case anyway as he's so obsessed with his species in Z.
Doesn't Vegeta himself say his heart was pure evil in the manga?

[Rocketman]

Hence why I said I felt it could be a metaphor for evolution.

Evolution has nothing to do with anything you're talking about.

[Sunlight & City Night]

Hence why I said I felt it could be a metaphor for evolution.

Evolution has nothing to do with anything you're talking about.

So the constant improvement of a species doesn't mirror the theory of evolution?

[Vegeta Jr]

Hence why I said I felt it could be a metaphor for evolution.

Evolution has nothing to do with anything you're talking about.

So the constant improvement of a species doesn't mirror the theory of evolution?

No because evolution happens over millions of years, whereas SSJ forms commonly get better.

[Sunlight & City Night]

Evolution has nothing to do with anything you're talking about.

So the constant improvement of a species doesn't mirror the theory of evolution?

No because evolution happens over millions of years, whereas SSJ forms commonly get better.

As I stated it's a metaphor for it not to be taken literally.

[Rocketman]

So the constant improvement of a species doesn't mirror the theory of evolution?

Evolution has nothing to do with improvement. Evolution says that life changes via mutations. Sometimes those mutations are harmful, and the carrier dies before it can reproduce. Something the mutation benefits the carrier, so they survive better than those who do not have it and are able to pass on that mutation to their descendants. And sometimes the mutation is neither helpful nor harmful (for example, green eyes instead of blue).

The small carnivorous dinosaurs like Velociraptor evolved into today's birds. Is a pigeon an improvement on Velociraptor?

Pandas have evolved to only eat bamboo, so they're going extinct. Is that an improvement?

[Sunlight & City Night]

So the constant improvement of a species doesn't mirror the theory of evolution?

Evolution has nothing to do with improvement. Evolution says that life changes via mutations. Sometimes those mutations are harmful, and the carrier dies before it can reproduce. Something the mutation benefits the carrier, so they survive better than those who do not have it and are able to pass on that mutation to their descendants. And sometimes the mutation is neither helpful nor harmful (for example, green eyes instead of blue).

The small carnivorous dinosaurs like Velociraptor evolved into today's birds. Is a pigeon an improvement on Velociraptor?

Pandas have evolved to only eat bamboo, so they're going extinct. Is that an improvement?

Well if it survived mass extinction then yes.
Panda evolved to exist one area as a species, mother nature didn't take into account that human beings would become such an aggressively advancing entity. Also Panda will not go extinct if we take measures to ensure they're survival which we seem to be doing.

But with everything there is always an evolutionary dead end. Other bears don't do so bad. Also you're telling me that today's Big cats are not better at surviving and hunting prey than the big cats of the past?
But that's the real world and another story entirely which there is no point in getting into here.

You've missed my point. The focus here is on a fictional universe.
The Saiyans through transforming got better and thus we're able to survive another day as a species thus a form of evolution has taken place even though it was a quick one. I'm just stating what I feel is to be true in a fictional environment. If this we're the real world Super Saiyans would take a million years to appear. We can't take that long in a manga can we?

Regarding mutations maybe Goku, Vegeta and maybe Brolly are mutations of their race and their descendants carry this "mutant" Super Saiyan gene.

I base my idea on the X-Men "Occasionally evolution makes a jump" idea.

You obviously disagree with me.
I'm not going to argue with you Rocketman as I said I'm just voicing my own interpretation because I feel I can on this forum weather it's right or wrong and on a subject like this all we can rely on is opinion.

[Bussani]

You're saying he changed to survive. That's more adaption than evolution, when you talk about biological evolution anyway. But as a metaphor (or Digivolution/Pokemon evolution), I see what you mean.

It's worth noting that the asteroid scene (and everything about Vegeta going into space) was filler. In the manga he just says that his anger at his own limits allowed him to surpass them.

...Or something.

[Piccolo Daimao]

The anime didn't fix the plot-hole as to why no-one sensed Vegeta becoming a Super Saiyan, in my opinion. The manga has numerous other situations like that which the anime didn't fix, such as no-one sensing Piccolo's tremendous power increase post assimilating with Nail, the Saiyans getting zenkais or even when no-one knew the whereabouts of Tenshinhan and Chaozu, but Goku was able to sense Bulma's small chi. It's just that sometimes the Z-Fighters are just retarded with their chi-sensing. Take for example, Kuririn. He claimed he was able to sense that Cell and Trunks had more power than they were displaying currently. But before, he's surprised that Piccolo can beat #20? And he doesn't even know where Tenshinhan or Chaozu are?

I'd just write it off as another plot-hole, just the same as countless others. Although I do like to take Vegeta's first Super Saiyan transformation as being in space, like the anime.