YouTube / Toei Mass Takedown Discussion

russ869 · Post by **russ869** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:15 pm

Kendamu wrote:I can't believe what an abridged-series-worshiping moron I was for uploading a video that shows that I do not agree with YouTube and Toei's actions against TFS. If I could somehow delete it, I would and I'd join all the non-morons who sit and go, "Oh well. Guess it's best to not say anything at all because saying something is foolish."

Are you even reading what you type or are you just trying to jump on some non-existent bandwagon you thought you saw following Hujio's post around?

Excuse me? You're acting like you're somehow "standing up for your rights" or something. They don't care if you don't agree. As far as Toei is concerned, you can go pound sand. Legal rights holders do whatever they feel necessary to protect their assets from theft or copy infringement. They will fail, because such is the nature of the internet. But that doesn't make you look any less stupid for getting all "butthurt" just because some illegal content you enjoyed vanished for a few days.

Sure, maybe Toei DELETING ALL YOUR YOUTUBE VIDEOS is a little bit of an overreaction, but posting videos in protest is just as unnecessary of an overdramatic response.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:16 pm

Raki wrote:Weird Al always asks the permission of the person's music he is parodying.

Also note that while he is protected under fair use to make a parody of a song, he can't make a video to go with it without consent. That's why there was no video to "Couch Potato."

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:They said they'll still make it, it just won't be viewable via Youtube.

Yea, there are plenty of other video hosting sights. Not to mention plenty of other ways to distribute (though I know they don't want to go down that road). Toei crushes anything tokusatsu-related on Youtube right quick, yet fansubs of those shows circulate via torrent and upload services like megaupload without much trouble.

MCDaveG wrote:But why is it that these corporations like TOEI or GMBh take down your profiles and videos without notice or warning?? Why is it that Funimation will send me notice and what they do about it is that they'll add and advertising or block that video for some country where they are distributing their material.... I don't get it.

That's just it- they don't actually "do" it. Youtube does. The company identifies offending content, and then decides whether they are ok with having something altered (I've had AMV's stay up, but with the audio muted thanks to a complaint from a record label), throw up advertisements, or pull the content. Youtube responds accordingly. I'm pretty sure that corresponding account bans are at Youtube's sole discretion, if they feel that the amount of content qualifies as a major terms of use violation. Every video they alter or pull has such a warning, and it's usually the people who's entire account focused on a certain theme or series, and who had to have multiple works pulled, that get banned at the same time.

I also want to reiterate that, while I disagree with this practice personally, I'm fairly certain copyright holders don't generally review content on Youtube. Neither does Youtube itself. The whole thing with TFS probably went like this.

Toei: Holy crap, these guys have like 13 episodes up. Take those down, please.
Youtube: Certainly... jeez, everything on here is from this same show. Banned for violation of TOS.

Super 17 · Post by **Super 17** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:25 pm

So I typed in bring back teamfourstar and there's at least more than 20 pages of mostly vegeta flicking us off. Haha awesome.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:27 pm

russ869 wrote:
Kendamu wrote:I can't believe what an abridged-series-worshiping moron I was for uploading a video that shows that I do not agree with YouTube and Toei's actions against TFS. If I could somehow delete it, I would and I'd join all the non-morons who sit and go, "Oh well. Guess it's best to not say anything at all because saying something is foolish."

Are you even reading what you type or are you just trying to jump on some non-existent bandwagon you thought you saw following Hujio's post around?
Excuse me?

No. You're not excused, bucko!

Don't you talk down to me or anyone else who felt that they wanted to upload a video because they had something they wanted to say! It is YouTube, right?! I have a right to do such things! We're not morons! We know that this won't change a damn thing! Don't think you're educating us or something! An over-dramatic response would be something more along the lines of getting a bunch'a people together to tie up Toei's or YouTube's phone lines, DDoS campaigns, or other such nonsense! What we did was simply say, "Yo, we don't like this," in a fun little way just to get it off our chests!

In no way will I, or anyone else, take crap from you just for having a little bit of fun and venting some frustration in a harmless way!

So get off your high horse, Mr. Man, and leave us be!

*deep breath*

Okay! I'm good! Have fun, guys!

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:37 pm

MCDaveG wrote:But why is it that these corporations like TOEI or GMBh take down your profiles and videos without notice or warning?? Why is it that Funimation will send me notice and what they do about it is that they'll add and advertising or block that video for some country where they are distributing their material.... I don't get it. We are all people with good manners (almost maybe) and we can talk or discussing things. If some company will send me warning or short message, that they don't like this or that video and if I will take it down, I'll do it without hesitation. But no, some companies are behaving like super-powerfull industries that they seem that if they want, they'll kill you with no problem.

Well, it is right there in Youtube's terms of service. "Don't upload videos that contain copyrighted material. We reserve the right to terminate accounts that do." You essentially agree to these terms every time you upload a video.

Sure, it would be nice if they gave you more of a warning sometimes, but it's their site, their rules, so if you're going to upload such videos you better be prepared for the potential consequences.

But you are right, Youtube is mainly just complying with the owners of the copyright, from what I know. Apparently they try to convince them to allow the videos to stay, put up ads on it, and offer them the money from the ads or something, but at the end of the day it's up to the owner (so Toei, in this case, as you say). Youtube isn't in a position to argue with them.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:18 pm

It's just a case of Youtube protecting themselves from litigation. If a rights holder chooses to play nice and have ads run up the video, then everyone's happy. They basically give their consent for you to use the footage (on Youtube). If they don't give that consent, then Youtube has to take a hardline stance to avoid being brought under the gun themselves.

This really isn't a big deal though. Having content pulled from Youtube is less than a slap on the wrist. It is a small blow to pride and a mild inconvenience. They could just as easily serve a C&D to individual account holders, or out right file suit against them if they really felt like it.

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:01 pm

Toei has the right to remove anything they own from the Internet, even if it makes no bit of sense at all. TeamFourStar *made* them money, so why (attempt) to get rid of them?

As someone who has had his YouTube account deleted for copyright infringement, I understand the frustration. It sucks. YouTube is NOT the place for content that in any way may infringe someone's work, even if it promotes the material. It USED to be, but not anymore. They will ALWAYS take the companies side, and unless a million people write to them they will ignore you.

I assume TeamFourStar will try to find a new home, and I wish them luck

Try to find a place that will allow you to *directly* contact Toei, so you can deal with them without a middle-man. I know that helped with my website.

hui43210 · Post by **hui43210** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:30 am

Hey everybody look at this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZjfLLbekXM

RoarkVegeta · Post by **RoarkVegeta** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:00 pm

Cmon Toei! Gokuden, next!

fps_anth · Post by **fps_anth** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:46 pm

Kendamu wrote:
No. You're not excused, bucko!

Don't you talk down to me or anyone else who felt that they wanted to upload a video because they had something they wanted to say! It is YouTube, right?! I have a right to do such things! We're not morons! We know that this won't change a damn thing! Don't think you're educating us or something! An over-dramatic response would be something more along the lines of getting a bunch'a people together to tie up Toei's or YouTube's phone lines, DDoS campaigns, or other such nonsense! What we did was simply say, "Yo, we don't like this," in a fun little way just to get it off our chests!

In no way will I, or anyone else, take crap from you just for having a little bit of fun and venting some frustration in a harmless way!

So get off your high horse, Mr. Man, and leave us be!

*deep breath*

Okay! I'm good! Have fun, guys!

Pretty much.

One thing I feel should be pointed out is that Yugioh Abridged went through a similar situation, and now hosts all of the episodes on their website. So at least the show won't die because of this

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:32 pm

fps_anth wrote:One thing I feel should be pointed out is that Yugioh Abridged went through a similar situation, and now hosts all of the episodes on their website. So at least the show won't die because of this

LK also hosts on Youtube, just under a different name. He's even re-upped much of his old content.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:10 pm

o.O I did what now?

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:16 pm

laserkid wrote:o.O I did what now?

I'm pretty sure he meant LittleKuribo, not laserkid.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:10 pm

Haha, yeah I did. Sorry 'bout that.

BUFF Trunks · Post by **BUFF Trunks** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:16 pm

Can someone please reupload the Big Green Dub clip of Tree of Might?

Zeshen · Post by **Zeshen** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:10 am

Ok.

So I have read through most of the comments of this discussion/ramble/bitching/moans/gripes and it seems that with an exception of a few of the members (VegettoEX, Hujio..etc) that a lot of you don't even have a basic copyright knowledge.

It is assumed by most people that a simple request to draw/make a video/a song, using copyrighted materials (likenesses, characters, places, names etc.) is the same as getting distributing rights. IT IS NOT. Those requests that you hear people suggest in making to companies are for personal use. Such as drawing a picture of Gohan that you will put on your wall or something. It does not include the rights to take said drawn picture and sell it or advertise it.

To get those rights, TFS would probably need to get in touch with Toei's Legal and Financial markets to get some type of 3rd party copyright. a 3rd party copyright is usually the type of copyright that advertisers hold.

With that being said, most of us know advertisements are most often not free. So TFS would probably have to start charging to view their material, with a fair margin of their profits going to Toei.

It would be a lot more work than most people assume it would be just to let us see them again.

BUT, this is all based on the assumption that they take matters into their own hands. As was stated before, using places like Youtube puts most of the legal tender on somebody else shoulders.

Now this explanation of mine is based off of similar discussions I have heard elsewhere. More or less I assume this is correct if someone has a more extensive knowledge of copyright laws than I do feel free to correct whatever I have said.

p.s. As has been said before, AMV's ((while being within these rights)) would be difficult to ascertain or confine from all the source material. It would take more resources to shut down all the illegitimate and copyrighted material than it would be to just let it be. A lot of the people putting up AMV's do pay for some of the source material. Busting all those people would be a big loss in revenue for the companies. Some companies see it as free advertising anyways.

Anyways I hope what I have said has shed some hint of light to those who where in the dark about copyright laws.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:50 am

I just don't get how people think that TFS made money for Toei, just by doing their parodies and distributing the footage for free.
I mean, I think that it's not likely that someone that watches Dragonball clips on Youtube will go and buy the DVDs later. They will probably just download it instead.

Although it's sad that TFS are gone for the moment, I'm happy that I have humor enough to be able to replace TFS's videos with other entertainment.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:13 pm

Godo wrote:I just don't get how people think that TFS made money for Toei, just by doing their parodies and distributing the footage for free.
I mean, I think that it's not likely that someone that watches Dragonball clips on Youtube will go and buy the DVDs later. They will probably just download it instead.

Although it's sad that TFS are gone for the moment, I'm happy that I have humor enough to be able to replace TFS's videos with other entertainment.

Well, it's a completely intangible number, but I'll bet there are people who went out and bought Dragon Ball merchandise as a result of TFS's videos. Because either:
A) Their fandom was revived after remembering how cool the show was.
B) They had no previous exposure to the show, they were seeing all kinds of funny jokes and knew they were missing out on something (Also they weren't a turd and just went and bought the cheep as free season sets).

We know for a fact of at least ONE member of group B. If you listen to the interview with KaiserNeko on the Daizenshuu EX podcast, you'll hear about how they received a message from somebody claiming they went out and bought Season 1 so that they would know what was happening.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:12 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:
Godo wrote:I just don't get how people think that TFS made money for Toei, just by doing their parodies and distributing the footage for free.
I mean, I think that it's not likely that someone that watches Dragonball clips on Youtube will go and buy the DVDs later. They will probably just download it instead.

Although it's sad that TFS are gone for the moment, I'm happy that I have humor enough to be able to replace TFS's videos with other entertainment.
Well, it's a completely intangible number, but I'll bet there are people who went out and bought Dragon Ball merchandise as a result of TFS's videos. Because either:
A) Their fandom was revived after remembering how cool the show was.
B) They had no previous exposure to the show, they were seeing all kinds of funny jokes and knew they were missing out on something (Also they weren't a turd and just went and bought the cheep as free season sets).

We know for a fact of at least ONE member of group B. If you listen to the interview with KaiserNeko on the Daizenshuu EX podcast, you'll hear about how they received a message from somebody claiming they went out and bought Season 1 so that they would know what was happening.

Although there is only one person mentioned, I guess that there are more people that have bought the sets after watching TFS's bridged series.
But, I guess it goes into the same category as "friend tells you about Dragonball, you watch it, you buy it".
So, actually, they were less successful in making Toei money than all those friends making their friends fans of Dragonball.
But I get the point, although just a few extra bucks (compared to what FUNimation actually earns) spent on FUNimations products doesn't seem like a good argument to let TFS lay out lots of footage that's belonging to Toei.
So the argument "Toei should be grateful, FFS!" doesn't hold.
Am I the only one thinking this way?

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:24 pm

Godo wrote: So the argument "Toei should be grateful, FFS!" doesn't hold.
Am I the only one thinking this way?

Oh no, I completely agree. The revenue that the parodies actually bring in is very small; just a drop in the bucket, really. But I also believe that it doesn't hurt anybody either. I have no moral objections for the use of copyright footage in non-profit fan-parodies. In fact, I think it's unreasonable to assume that they do cause damage to anybody.