DBZ just isn't the same...

[jjgp1112]

If I may add something to Rory's remark, this appreciation for Faulconer's tracks stems less from FUNimation fanboyism(FUNimation is Jesus to the One Piece fanbase[Oda is their God]) and more from it being in English.

You'll be hard pressed to find someone who hates FUNimation's dub acting/writing, but loves their music, or vice versa. The two go hand in hand.

I don't like some of their script changes, does that count?

I don't fucking see how hard it is to grasp the concept that some people actually fucking like it.

I think it might be best for me to stay away from any thread that devolves into your typical dub vs. sub debate. It's not good for me.

jjgp1112, I respect you for fighting a valliant battle for Faulconer. No, seriously, I do, no sarcasm here, but you've gotta' understand that you're in an extreme minority. You seem to want the dub, (but appriciate the original voices) with the original music.. well, up until the Boo arc, then you want the broadcast audio.
There really arn't many people like that, so when we make remarks about FUNi's moronic fanbase (I hate to be harsh but come on, Youtube.com, need I say more?) we arn't really aiming it at you.. well, we are after the Cell arc apparently.. but like I say, extreme minority.

Actually, I'd rather have the faulconer score over the Japanese score for the Frieza saga-Cell saga as well. It's just that the Japanese music sucks in the Buu saga but doesn't before that. I could actually manage to watch everything before the Buu saga with Japanese music, but I'd still rather have Faulconer music over it.

[ShinRogafuken]

There really arn't many people like that, so when we make remarks about FUNi's moronic fanbase (I hate to be harsh but come on, Youtube.com, need I say more?)

Hell yeah. Count me in as a first-hand witness.

[KaiserNeko]

Actually they called the Spanish guy Balrog. And yes I know they were the original names. The point is I cannot call them by their Japanese names, since their English ones are what I've been calling them since I was 10. Same thing, albeit different ages are with Akuma and mispronouncing Ryu's name.

Yes, we know that.

This is how it went:

JP: Balrog USA: Vega

JP: M. Bison USA: Balrog

JP: Vega USA: M. Bison

Mike Bison was changed because the character was a black boxer. Capcom wanted to avoid a lawsuit. Thusly, they had to choose another character to change names with. They chose Balrog, because they felt the name fit, and gave Balrog the name of Vega and Vega, M. Bison. Vega works for Balrog because it's a Spanish name and M. Bison works because... well, it just does.

As well, Akuma was originally Gouki. Gouki just means Strong Demon while Akuma means Devil. It's unclear as far as I've seen why they changed the name.

Edit: True 'dat, Metalwario, true 'dat.

[Metalwario64]

Vega works for Balrog because it's an Italian name

Don't you mean Spanish?

But yeah, you pretty much said what I said, but better!

[VegettoEX]

All right, folks.

While I have no problem with these types of constantly-ongoing, timeless conversations... I'm wondering what the true purpose of this thread is. I mean... haven't we gone through this? Over and over and over? And over again? Recently? Like, every week? What new discussion points are being contributed? I mean, I skim through and see laserkid being the old-school internet dude with familiarity with everything, B trying to make valid points and correcting other people's grammar while using the wrong "your" again, jjgp1112 calling the board a parody of itself while playing their own self-parody of dubbie-persecution, blah blah blah.

Seriously? C'mon.

We all get it. Some of you like the Japanese music. Some of you like FUNimation's score. Got it. Yep. OK, there, big guy.

(Also... "its" is possessive, while "it's" means "it is". Please make a note of this.)

[Tamagon]

Honestly, the only moronic dbz fan I ever saw on youtube was this ocean group fan who acted like tough shit, sent PM flames towards anyone who liked FUNi, and was overall kinda of a douche.

But I don't browse the dbz parts of youtube much, so...

Also, I'm a huge FUNi fanboy for their dubs of One Piece and Full Metal Alchemist, but even I'm willing to admit that Bruce's score doesn't really fit DBZ, and is inferior to the soundtrack of the Japanese version.

[NeptuneKai]

Believe it or not I think the Funi score wouldn't be so awful if they ditched the filler tracks and put in silence. For all means and purposes themes like "Gohan Angers" or "Cells theme" I could put up with but then we have songs that are played when people are just standing around talking that sound sloppily tossed together and overly redundant. I still think the dub score doesn't fit DBZ at all but if it had to be there it could have worked. Personally the blame should lay more on Funi itself rather then the music composers. Funi forced music to be in every scene. Of course we would eventually get boring redundant compositions for scenes of Kuririn standing around talking to Gohan.

So yeah I don't like the dub music but I think the reason it doesn't work well isn't solely based on it being really inappropriate music.

[snaku]

(Also... "its" is possessive, while "it's" means "it is". Please make a note of this.)

It always bugs the crap out of me when I see other people do that.

[ShinRogafuken]

Just feeling my semi-radical thoughts (... what?).

That's what I got told.

[Clown Prince of Crime]

Personally, I do prefer the Japanese score for a number of reasons. One is consistency with the original Dragon Ball. I like the fact that the background music is the same for the original Dragon Ball as it is for Dragon Ball Z in the Japanese version of the series.

There's a few pieces of Faulconer's work that I like (such as the fast-paced Super Buu track), but overall I find that the original Japanese music fits in much better. While there are a few pieces of Faulconer's work that I like, I don't particularly care for that score, as a whole. For example, I can't stand the silly banjo music that Faulconer's score often has whenever there's "antics" about on the screen (such as pretty much anything that involves Goten and Trunks).

[Captain Awesome]

I think FUNimation is trying to move past their original broadcast audio track, they've become a legitimate anime dubbing and distribution company since then, and no doubt it's a reminder of when they were less than faithful to the original source material.

The Faulconer score isn't really indicative of the way FUNimation does things any more, It's clearly important to FUNi how fans of the franchise perceive their treatment of the show, which is why they are now going out of their way to present the series in the most faithful way possible (outside of re-dubbing the entire series with a new cast) and the old broadcast track will (and should) suffer the same fate as Step into the Grand Tour; to be discarded completely and never spoken of again.

[Metalwario64]

discarded completely

Not quite; it's still on the Legacy of Goku.

[Big Boss]

I think FUNimation is trying to move past their original broadcast audio track, they've become a legitimate anime dubbing and distribution company since then, and no doubt it's a reminder of when they were less than faithful to the original source material.

The Faulconer score isn't really indicative of the way FUNimation does things any more, It's clearly important to FUNi how fans of the franchise perceive their treatment of the show, which is why they are now going out of their way to present the series in the most faithful way possible (outside of re-dubbing the entire series with a new cast) and the old broadcast track will (and should) suffer the same fate as Step into the Grand Tour; to be discarded completely and never spoken of again.

You lost The Ashes! Fuck yeah! England!! Engla...

...*cough* I mean, such a shame what you just said will probably never happen.

[xzero]

I'm going to disagree with probably about 50% of the posts in this thread. I think the Faulconer score still has a place in DBZ. It's my personal preference, and even after watching the series all the way through several times on both language tracks at least twice each, I'm going to have to go with Faulconer.

This popped up about this time last year, so I'll just summarize my thoughts briefly. Those who grew up with the Japanese score tend to prefer it, and those who grew up with the Faulconer score tend to prefer it. I don't think either is objectively better than the other (if for no other reason that it's music, which is purely subjective). I like some tracks from the Japanese version, and for certain scenes, they definitely fit better. Simultaneously, I like many tracks from the Faulconer dub, and for other scenes, they most certainly fit better.

As a final point, I agree that Funi is obviously trying to get away from what they were in the past. They clearly want their history to start around the time they released the uncut Yu Yu Hakusho and Blue Gender dubs, which were (to the best of my recollection) the first two that were legitimately good. Moreover, their current focus seems to be the post-Full Metal Alchemist ideology of releasing dubs that are as accurate to the original as possible, which we can all appreciate. That said, Faulconer's dub score, though divisive, is still a part of Dragonball Z and a part of Funimation's history. I, for one, will always enjoy popping in my Faulconer dub score CDs, and I know many others feel the same way.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

I'm going to start with my opinion on the Faulconer score: I hate it. When I originally saw the dub I didn't mind it, but I didn't love it either. I was a stupid kid, and that was just noise in the background. Not good noise or bad noise, just "there". Since then, the score has grown to really annoy the hell out of me, and it's actually painful for me to listen to bits of it. It's one of those things that, as I grew up, I have no idea how I suffered through it.

That's my opinion on the whole thing, save for a tiny handful of tracks that are what I'd call "listenable".

Opinions can be stupid. They can be wrong. They can be wrong by being mis-informed, they can be wrong by hinging on actual information that isn't true, they can be wrong because a person is swept up into a situation in which they aren't thinking clearly about what they're thinking.

But if a person happens to know another soundtrack exists, has heard it, and still considers the alternative to be better? That's not a stupid opinion, that's a diametrically opposed opinion. It's one that will never match up with my own, it's one that I can't even personally appreciate. But it's valid, and I don't see what anyone gains by chewing out an informed person that's come to the conclusion that they have. If someone hasn't heard the original composition, then sure, I can see why you might want to say "Listen to this, and maybe you'll see what I'm talking about". But if at that point they say that they will maintain their preference, I don't see why that's so offensive, other than the fact that they like something that you and I can't personally stand to hear a second of.

Can we really be considered the connoisseurs of tasteful art, anyway? I mean, people say the score sounds immature, but we're talking about a franchise meant to entertain 7 year-old boys with poop jokes. It does this so admirably that an older set can gleam enjoyment from it, but we're at the end of the day all enjoying a cartoon(or comic book) aimed at kids.

[Gozar]

But if a person happens to know another soundtrack exists, has heard it, and still considers the alternative to be better? That's not a stupid opinion, that's a diametrically opposed opinion. It's one that will never match up with my own, it's one that I can't even personally appreciate. But it's valid, and I don't see what anyone gains by chewing out an informed person that's come to the conclusion that they have. If someone hasn't heard the original composition, then sure, I can see why you might want to say "Listen to this, and maybe you'll see what I'm talking about". But if at that point they say that they will maintain their preference, I don't see why that's so offensive, other than the fact that they like something that you and I can't personally stand to hear a second of.

Well said, SGK. If more people were like you, then fans of the Japanese version wouldn't have such a bad name. It's a shame that stereotypes ruin it for everyone. What I mean is, because there's such a large group of people who refuse to accept that other people have differing opinions on both sides that makes it that almost anyone who actively defends their preferred score is an asshole. Regardless of how respectful they are.

One problem that I've always had with a good deal of Faulconer bashers is that they go on about how immature the music sounds. How it's aimed at Pre-Teens. Well I think when people behave so poorly as to not accept that people can have differing opinions then them. THEY are the ones being immature.

My personal preference lies in the Japanese score. But I still have a great love for the Faulconer Music and find it very enjoyable.

I'm going to copy/paste part of a post of mine in the English DBOX topic because it holds very true to what is being said by SGK.

What I really hate the most is when people down other people for having different preferences. Like their fandom is somehow superior due to musical preference. That's complete bull. I pose you this...My girlfriend has read the Manga beginning to end. She's watched the series beginning to end at least 3 times in English and 3 times in Japanese and has a deep love for both versions and both casts. However she hates the Original score and prefers Faulconer's music. Now, does that somehow make her ignorant? Does that make her fandom inferior? The answer is no. Just because something came first, doesn't mean it's better. It doesn't mean people have to prefer it. Everyone has different tastes.

[Shoryuken]

As well, Akuma was originally Gouki. Gouki just means Strong Demon while Akuma means Devil. It's unclear as far as I've seen why they changed the name.

Actually Gouki, means Powerful/Great Oni (豪 "Gou" = Overpowering, great, mighty; 鬼 "Ki" = Devil, ghost, although the same kanji means Oni).
Oni's are not demons in sense of the word, but rather ogres.
Gouki was renamed Akuma probably because Gouki didn't sound menacing enough.

As for the discussion it self on whether or not Faulconer is good, I would have to say that a few of his songs are alright, but they don't fit the anime.

[VegettoEX]

then fans of the Japanese version wouldn't have such a bad name.

There's something amazingly hilarious (ironic?) about this statement, but whatever .

Just because something came first, doesn't mean it's better. It doesn't mean people have to prefer it. Everyone has different tastes.

That's a fair point that "first" doesn't inherently mean "better".

However, let's also be brutally honest and fair: one came first, was used almost entirely without deviation throughout the rest of the world over the course of several decades, and succeeded on its own merits without further qualification.

What was it? Right, the original Japanese score.

I hate to sound like a broken record (I've said this so many times, and I've seen plenty of other people picking up the same torch), but in the global scale of things, FUNimation's replaced musical score is a minor curiosity... AT BEST. That's flippin' FANTASTIC that you like it (and Gozar, I know and recognize that you personally have said you like the Japanese score, so this isn't necessarily a response to just you), but look at it from the bigger perspective, folks.

and the old broadcast track will (and should) suffer the same fate as Step into the Grand Tour; to be discarded completely and never spoken of again.

Another wonderfully applicable comparison. Why is it that certain aspects of FUNimation's past are almost universally loathed and bid good-riddance, but others somehow rise above to this strange legendary status?

Why not Peter Berring's score from 1995? Why not Shuki Levy's score from 1996?

When you take a step back and play the "Which of these is not like the other?" game, the sole differentiation is the amount of time that one was on television. The DBZ dub with a Faulconer score went from... what?... 1999 to 2005, or something? That's double the time Levy's score was actively used (and about 3-to-4 times as many episodes). That gave people more time to get familiar with it, and more time to latch onto it in crazy fandom ways.

I still wanna keep bringing it back to what FUNimation has (so far) said and indicated they are trying to do with the Dragon Box release -- put out a faithful product. Look, I don't want you hardcore FUNimation loyalists to miss out on what you love (I mean, Hell... look at the battles we've gone through over the last 15 years with the company). At the end of the day, though? If the product isn't for you, it isn't for you. Companies move on and try to make money. FUNimation/Navarre thinks this the direction they should go in to make more money, with the potential thought process that they've already milked you for all you're worth, so let's hit another group.

Let's play money making... err... future prediction game:

Imagine we're another fifteen years down the road with FUNimation and our fandom. Imagine they've abandoned replaced musical scores for all of their shows. Since physical media is now irrelevant, they offer download codes for the entirety of shows/seasons via digital distribution (things like the Roku 3.0, Xbox 720, PS4, etc.). DBZ is, of course, available in a dual-audio setup that includes the original Japanese audio track, and a 5.1 dub audio track... one dubbed audio track that only includes the original Japanese score. How are people going to feel? Are they going to miss the old Faulconer dub from about twenty years ago? Or will it only be appropriate to watch with the original score, since why on Earth would you watch it with a replaced score since no-one does that anymore..?!

Despite my above contribution, I'm still wondering what "new" tidbits are being brought to the table, here. I don't see a whole lot of new folks tossing in their two-cents (which I would love), so the entire thing appears to be another needless retreading of conversations that are already taking place every day in other threads.

[JulieYBM]

I'd personally prefer the dub scores be dropped. Like Mike said, ten, fifteen years after that the fandom will move more towards unification, espicially thirty-fifty years down the road when the 'dub score fans' have 'died out' (so grim, Jacob). No doubt the North American history is interesting, but there's too much confusion in the fandom, which is also why I'd hope for a proper redub of the materials fifteen to twenty years from now (or maybe in 2016 as a North American 20th Anniversary) so that, in addition to removing the varied music scores, information and inconsistancies between the two scripts would be next. Then maybe we wouldn't have to have such a fractured fanbase. The fanbases of the modern Shônen Holy Trinity aren't so fractured, if at all, after all.

[verto]

I don't understand why everyone hates the FUNi music. I think it works quite well, especially when Gohan goes Super Saiyan 2 and he goes ape shit. I don't wan to hear nice music going on in the background (if you can say that; it seemed quite loud and obtrusive to me), I want music that shows some ass kicking and serious shit is about to go down.