English Dragon Box Release

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:22 am

I think a lot of people here got this music thing backwards. Whether you choose to accept it or not the fact is that Faulconer's score is a part of DragonBall's history. Whether you believe it to be good or bad it will have always been there. There will always be debate. A new Box Set release (The DBOX) that a very small percentage of the Fan base will buy considering the casual fan just came off of the Season sets will not make the Faulconer score fade away. It will only cause more mayhem and turmoil among the fan base due to it's exclusion. Adding it as an option isn't hurting anyone. No one's forcing you to listen to it. Adding it will make this truly a perfect US release because everyone will be happy.

And I am speaking as someone who PREFERS THE JAPANESE SCORE. Yet despite that fact, the US Music will in fact be a deciding factor for me. It has great sentimental value to me and I want the option of listening to it. Because you know, sometimes I'm in the mood to here some more amped up music during a great fight. If I buy the DBOXs I will be selling my Season Sets so I will no longer have the option of both tracks (I sold my Singles for the Season Sets).

What I fail to understand is the pure arrogance that people display when downing the Faulconer music. Just because it's not as well composed doesn't mean people can't enjoy it. If someone prefers a Hamburger to a Filet Mignon that doesn't mean they're are wrong or not allowed to feel that way. We're finally at a point where Dub fans can enjoy the Dub with both scores. But rather then just letting that be, people are demanding that the Faulconer score be erased from history. That's pure arrogance.

I'll say it again. It being there as an option isn't hurting anything. It's not doing anything to you.

In addition, what I really hate the most is when people down other people for having different preferences. Like their fandom is somehow superior due to musical preference. That's complete bull. I pose you this...My girlfriend has read the Manga beginning to end. She's watched the series beginning to end at least 3 times in English and 3 times in Japanese and has a deep love for both versions and both casts. However she hates the Original score and prefers Faulconer's music. Now, does that somehow make her ignorant? Does that make her fandom inferior? The answer is no. Just because something came first, doesn't mean it's better. It doesn't mean people have to prefer it. Everyone has different tastes.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:50 am

Gozar wrote:*a rather large snip of a long quote*

The major complaint from Anti-Two-English-Track people is they believe that the inclusion of a 2nd English audio track will cause some encoding issues. IE with the extra data of another audio track added to the disc, they would have to downsample the Video Quality to compensate. That's the major concern some people have.
Some are even saying that with just the two audio tracks, with the Ep count they're after, they'll STILL have to downsample the video, which has some people writing FUNi requesting more Discs in each set.

Personally, I only care about the Japanese track, I don't even care too terribly much about the subtitles, so unless it DOES somehow cause compression issues, I don't care.

All things considered, I'm not too worried about that either, just trying to inform.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:14 am

It ain't about better fans or whatever. It's about treating DBZ with the same respect every other anime FUNimation gets. There's something to be said about a show's audience when the company releasing it feels the need to change the score to make it more appealing and to turn a quick buck when most of the the rest of the world gets a localisation that's treated with more respect to the original version. In turn, a respectful localisation means that the fans are respected. Keeping the FUNimation score, to some, is a form of disrespect to their intelligence and ability to enjoy something special to them as it was originally intended and as presented to the rest of the world.

It ain't arrogance. It's about respect.

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:58 am

DemonRin wrote:
Gozar wrote:*a rather large snip of a long quote*
The major complaint from Anti-Two-English-Track people is they believe that the inclusion of a 2nd English audio track will cause some encoding issues. IE with the extra data of another audio track added to the disc, they would have to downsample the Video Quality to compensate. That's the major concern some people have.
Some are even saying that with just the two audio tracks, with the Ep count they're after, they'll STILL have to downsample the video, which has some people writing FUNi requesting more Discs in each set.

Would such a problem be present if FUNi upped the disc count like they should based on Video space alone?

Kendamu wrote:It ain't about better fans or whatever. It's about treating DBZ with the same respect every other anime FUNimation gets. There's something to be said about a show's audience when the company releasing it feels the need to change the score to make it more appealing and to turn a quick buck when most of the the rest of the world gets a localisation that's treated with more respect to the original version. In turn, a respectful localisation means that the fans are respected. Keeping the FUNimation score, to some, is a form of disrespect to their intelligence and ability to enjoy something special to them as it was originally intended and as presented to the rest of the world.

It ain't arrogance. It's about respect.

And now we have that option. You can view the Dub with the original score. I'm not saying take that away. There's nothing wrong with keeping both options in. It's not disrespectful. We've got the original score.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:21 am

The problem here is elementary and it looks like I get to say it again. The ONLY reason to have the Dragon Box is for the video quality. The last thing we need is to bog that quality down for a subset of fans that aren't even likely to purchase the set anyway.

If we were talking a blu ray release for the Dbox, sure why not keep them both. Throw the Ocean dub on there for good measure while you're at it. But with DVD we want to keep the alternate audio to a minimum. They have to put a dub on here to try to market outside the hardcore sub fans. But ultimatly, they should only really put one dub on there. We don't want the video constrained by extra audio options, and the liklihood they will add extra discs is low at best. If there can only be one dub it should be the dub that is the most faithful to the original, and that's the dub with the JP score.

It's not a matter of telling someone what to like, it's simply a matter of logistics.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:27 am

Gozar wrote:
I'll say it again. It being there as an option isn't hurting anything. It's not doing anything to you.

Umm yes it does...it makes the encoding video quality of the Dragon Boxes go down which isn't good.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:34 am

ShinRogafuken wrote:
Gozar wrote:
I'll say it again. It being there as an option isn't hurting anything. It's not doing anything to you.
Umm yes it does...it makes the encoding video quality of the Dragon Boxes go down which isn't good.

It has the potential to make it go down; whether or not it actually has--or would, I suppose--is yet to be seen.

That said, I remain pretty apathetic about the issue; while I do believe it would be ideal to have all three audio tracks available, godofchaos made a very strong argument a few weeks back in IRC as to why this could definitely be a feasible problem. I suppose we just need to wait and see.

anvil · Post by **anvil** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:55 am

B wrote:
anvil wrote:in the first place, i dont understand why did they need to have a dub score? it was simply, more work, more cost only. unless they think that the dub score is so good that it would make more people watch DBZ, more to the extend that it would cover the cost of the dub score.
Well, Fukunaga and the Cocanougher family got to line their pockets everytime the music played on Cartoon Network. Every television set that was on CN while DBZ was on. Across the United States. Dragon Ball Z was hella popular. So they probably more than made up for the cost to make those tracks, which probably cost them about $0.03 to make anyway.

You mean Funi would earn more $$ when it broadcast cause it's using the dub score? Some sort of rights thing?

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:58 am

Tweaker wrote:
ShinRogafuken wrote:
Gozar wrote:
I'll say it again. It being there as an option isn't hurting anything. It's not doing anything to you.
Umm yes it does...it makes the encoding video quality of the Dragon Boxes go down which isn't good.
It has the potential to make it go down; whether or not it actually has--or would, I suppose--is yet to be seen.

That said, I remain pretty apathetic about the issue; while I do believe it would be ideal to have all three audio tracks available, godofchaos made a very strong argument a few weeks back in IRC as to why this could definitely be a feasible problem. I suppose we just need to wait and see.

Fancy recapping what he said? I don't go in the IRC much these days.

nwoo_2002 · Post by **nwoo_2002** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:03 am

Wasn't it stated on the podcast that the masters Funi are likely to work from would "make the single releases look like shit", or something to that effect? In which case, if they have somebody competent encoding the DVD's, would two additional English tracks be such a bad thing?

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:28 am

Gozar wrote: And now we have that option. You can view the Dub with the original score. I'm not saying take that away. There's nothing wrong with keeping both options in. It's not disrespectful. We've got the original score.

Having it there is a lingering reminder of said disrespect from the past.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:11 am

I think it's possible a lot of people have been burned by FUNi in the past, and are now talking about things like Video Quality and encoding now because they're just waiting to see what FUNi will do to "Mess Up" this release like they've messed up every single other release.

isucamper · Post by **isucamper** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:16 pm

Gozar wrote:If someone prefers a Hamburger to a Filet Mignon that doesn't mean they're are wrong or not allowed to feel that way.

It's more like prefering rancid squirrel meat. Am I arrogant for not wanting to eat rancid squirrel meat?

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:37 pm

The point is, the Remastered Sets were made for the people who enjoy the dub and Bruce Faulconer. The Dragon Boxes are made for people who enjoy the original and Shunsuke Kikuchi.

I personally don't care if it remains, it doesn't bother me, but I do agree that it would be cool if they got rid of it.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:40 pm

isucamper wrote:It's more like prefering rancid squirrel meat. Am I arrogant for not wanting to eat rancid squirrel meat?

Screw you, buddy. Squirrel be some good eatins.

sumpter360 · Post by **sumpter360** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:19 pm

ShinRogafuken wrote:but I do agree that it would be cool if they got rid of it.

Why would it be so cool if they got rid of it? Shouldn't you be happy so long as the JPN track is there? We does it make a difference to you if it's there or not, if you won't even be listening to it? Also said, is that the Remastered Sets are what Faulconer listeners should buy, not the DBox. So that means they should be forced to see it in non-DBox format? That's bull. Personally, this won't affect whether or not I buy this set. But to leave it out just to be leaving it out, is simply being ignorant of its existence and is unfair to those of us who enjoy the Faulconer dub, but recognized the atrocities that were the Remastered Sets.

If it's going to negatively affect the video quality, then by all means leave it out. But otherwise, there is absolutely NO reason to exclude it from this "definitive" release.

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:38 pm

Kendamu wrote:
Gozar wrote: And now we have that option. You can view the Dub with the original score. I'm not saying take that away. There's nothing wrong with keeping both options in. It's not disrespectful. We've got the original score.
Having it there is a lingering reminder of said disrespect from the past.

Oh come on. Give me a break. That's just a really lame excuse. Think of it as an extra feature.

isucamper wrote: It's more like prefering rancid squirrel meat. Am I arrogant for not wanting to eat rancid squirrel meat?

By comparing a Hamburger to Rancid Squirrel Meat. Yes.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:21 pm

sumpter360 wrote:
ShinRogafuken wrote:but I do agree that it would be cool if they got rid of it.
Why would it be so cool if they got rid of it? Shouldn't you be happy so long as the JPN track is there? We does it make a difference to you if it's there or not, if you won't even be listening to it? Also said, is that the Remastered Sets are what Faulconer listeners should buy, not the DBox. So that means they should be forced to see it in non-DBox format? That's bull. Personally, this won't affect whether or not I buy this set. But to leave it out just to be leaving it out, is simply being ignorant of its existence and is unfair to those of us who enjoy the Faulconer dub, but recognized the atrocities that were the Remastered Sets.

If it's going to negatively affect the video quality, then by all means leave it out. But otherwise, there is absolutely NO reason to exclude it from this "definitive" release.

Have you noticed that not many people who are non-Japanese version fans are getting it? Just about everybody said on my Dragon Box videos that FUNimation was milking them with this releases, that they're keeping the Remastered, AND that the Remastered Sets look better than the Dragon Boxes. I don't think you have to worry about that.

But like I said, I don't care if its included, but I do think it would be cool if they got rid of it because Dragon Ball Z is the sore thumb of anime titles with its music and bad dub, considering now basically all anime dubs are faithful to the original.

Vegeta Jr · Post by **Vegeta Jr** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:25 pm

I really don't see why the Funi dub is so hated except maybe season 3 with Schemmel's strange noises.

It's a different take on the series so view it as much, the Japanese version isn't going anywhere so if you want the 'Dragonball experience' then watch that but I wish people would stop bitching about how the dub is 'unfaithfull'.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:40 pm

I think you need to look at the FUNimation dub in time context to truly understand why so many of us find it to be exceptionally terrible.

For quite a while the FUNimaton dub, and ONLY the FUNimation dub was all you could watch. Sure, you could buy VHS tapes, but they were dub only and "uncut" only in the visual sense.

Yeah, they actually had an "edited" dub that actually removed an episode of the Freeza arc, and doctored images up to make them "less offensive".

We were expected to take this new dub and like it. Doesn't matter that it was cut to hell and back and also rather obnoxious, we had to deal with it if we wanted to LEGALLY watch (and understand) the show.

So while we did eventually get the subtitled version, even that was a long battle. When we DID get them, they first were censored too (DARN YOU!), and used wrong spellings from the dub. These problems did get fixed over time, but it took a long time TO fix them, and even LONGER to get "our" version released in a consistant and qualitative manner.

So, there's a lot of resentment towards a terribly inaccurate dub that was all we could get for some time.

But even if you DON'T have the time context, most english dubs try to be accurate to the original. It's the entire point OF dubbing a show, and that's how we judge them. We don't judge them based on how "cool" they are, but how "accurate" they are. We save coolness judgement for the show itself, not the dubbing. In that regard DBZ's dub is an abject failure.