Humans in the story

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:12 pm

We all know after Freeza's saga humans are pretty much side characters in the storyline. They do a little thing here and there but nothing that great.
After seen the humans in Kaio's planet it seems that Akira Toriyama was planning something great for them, specially for Tienshinhan. But then after all that talk we don't even see anything special or great from the humans no more.
The point of this thread is what could Akira Toriyama had done to keep humans as main characters in the series?

LeprikanGT · Post by **LeprikanGT** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:14 pm

I sort of disagree.

Mr. Satan is a human; and he did a lot after he showed up, mainly during the Majin Buu-Kid Buu saga and his 'shining moment' on the Planet of the Kais where he got everyone to give energy to the spirit bomb and grabbed Vegeta out of the way of the blast.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:16 pm

Senzu_Bean wrote:We all know after Freeza's saga humans are pretty much side characters in the storyline. They do a little thing here and there but nothing that great.
After seen the humans in Kaio's planet it seems that Akira Toriyama was planning something great for them, specially for Tenshinhan. But then after all that talk we don't even see anything special or great from the humans no more.
The point of this thread is what could Akira Toriyama had done to keep humans as main characters in the series?

Make Goku the only Super Saiyan and have him die in the explosion of Namek.

The Super Saiyan powerup is simply too much for the humans to overcome in any way that makes any kind of sense.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:16 pm

I wasn't even thinking about Satan. I was talking about Tienshinhan, Yamcha, Krillin, etc.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:18 pm

Give them Kaioken?

LeprikanGT · Post by **LeprikanGT** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:19 pm

That would be a buzz kill; there was SO much greatness after the Frieza saga.

side thought, great icon Rocket man.

@ Senzu - True, atleast Yamcha and Krillin were still 'fighters' up through the Kid Buu saga and then Tien pops up out of no where During the Buu saga to help, But it would have been nice to see Tien do a bit more.

I think the final tournament could have been not so rushed and we could have seen some great improvements from EVERYONE in that gap they skipped after Kid Buu died.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:24 pm

Amigo Ten wrote:Give them Kaioken?

Super Saiyan is a x50 increase with no major drawbacks.

Kaioken rips the hell out of your body and is never shown over x20.

Goku and Vegeta's base forms are over two million after the Zenkai abuse on Namek.

The humans are lucky to reach 100,000 after King Kai's training.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:27 pm

Mr. Toriyama could had very well give humans a considerable increase in power and give a lame excuse that with great power the great the multiplier of Kaioken.
I mean, humans should be able to go Kaioken x50 and higher.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:31 pm

AT could have made them do it though. We had Tien talking about putting his own spin on Kaio's training to make greater improvements, and he was on Kaio's planet for hte longest. And AT did say he thought of Super Saiyan as being 10x normal (whether it makes sense or not). They could have been written as keeping up in power and ti wouldn't have seemed that weird.

LeprikanGT · Post by **LeprikanGT** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:44 pm

I dont think most humans in the series would have the disipline[sp] or the strength to handle kaioken without their bodies ripping apart and people dying left and right from trying it.

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:54 pm

Yeah, this is what I don't like about the later portion of the series. I don't know, each month I'm starting to dislike Dragon Ball more and more, which is strange.

Tenshinhan and Yamcha are my favorite characters though, I actually came up with a filler episode where after the punching bag they actually did have preliminaries after the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai and Yamcha lost to Yamu.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:59 pm

LeprikanGT wrote:I dont think most humans in the series would have the disipline[sp] or the strength to handle kaioken without their bodies ripping apart and people dying left and right from trying it.

If Akira Toriyama wanted they would be able to handle it.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:03 pm

Senzu_Bean wrote:If Akira Toriyama wanted they would be able to handle it.

Yes, but if he wanted he could've suddenly made Goku a girl and had an extended sex scene with her and Vegeta.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:07 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Senzu_Bean wrote:If Akira Toriyama wanted they would be able to handle it.
Yes, but if he wanted he could've suddenly made Goku a girl and had an extended sex scene with her and Vegeta.

But that is just... just... non-sense.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:19 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Amigo Ten wrote:Give them Kaioken?
Super Saiyan is a x50 increase with no major drawbacks.

Kaioken rips the hell out of your body and is never shown over x20.

Goku and Vegeta's base forms are over two million after the Zenkai abuse on Namek.

The humans are lucky to reach 100,000 after King Kai's training.

True, but at least Tenshinhan could have been shown mastering the technique, since he was one of those who stayed the longest with kaio.

It would have been great if he had learn the technique because the kaioken could correct the major flaw of one of his most famous techniques.

As we saw in the 23rd tournament, Tenshinhan is able to divide his body into 4. This is a personal technique of his that no other fighter masters in Dragon Ball. Piccolo and Krillin were able to do it in filler only.

Like we saw in that tournament, that technique of his had two flaws.
First, he relied on his eyes too much. Since later on they all learned to rely on ki, that flaw is somewhat surpassed.
Second, that technique divided his power and speed by four, which was a huge flaw.

But, if he could use Kaioken x4, that flaw would cease to exist. Joining the two techniques he would make his technique complete.

And thats just with kaioken x4. If he could use x10 or higher every body would have more power than the first body. Of course, if he wanted to concentrate his maximum power he wouldn`t divide himself and he would use kaioken with just one body, but that doesn`t change the fact that he would finally complete his technique.

Also, since we saw in the manga that he was thinking of adding twists of his own to Kaio`s technique, we could have seen him coming up with a Shin Kaioken. A sort of kaioken which doesn`t stresses your body nearly as much as the original kaioken and because of that, the user can use it longer and with higher multipliers, possibly even x50 or higher. That wouldn`t be too much, because Goku was able to use Kaioken x20. If the Shin kaioken stressed the body less than three times less than the original Kaioken, then it could go all the way up to x60 with the same or similar strain to the body.

As for the other humans fighters, Yamcha wasn`t ever really shown doing something great. Despite showing potential, he was always outclassed by the other fighters, including the other human fighters so I don`t see the need to keep him on a similar power level as the others. That also applies to Chaotzu.

As for Krillin, he had his time to shine in Namek and, as the others, I really don`t see the need to keep him on a similar power level as the others, but for different reasons. All he really wanted was a girlfriend, and he got his wish in the Cell saga. Before that he had lots of chances to shine as a fighter.

But Tienshinhan is different. He is a fighter with lots of potential and a warrior which always wants to improve himself. It would be great to have him use the Kaioken or a Shin Kaioken, so that he could be closer to the power levels of each saga and shine a little more.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:29 pm

rereboy wrote:But, if he could use Kaioken x4, that flaw would cease to exist. Joining the two techniques he would make his technique complete

Ah, but when he divides his strength, the Kaioken comes harder to pull off safely by the new bodies, because they're weaker.

LeprikanGT · Post by **LeprikanGT** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:30 pm

I find it hard to believe that in ALL the time dbz skipped after the Frieza saga, that Goku never shared any of his techniques. Like why didnt he teach Gohan kaioken [pre-SS] or anyone else the instant transmission? That would have been extremely helpful for someone else to know.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:38 pm

Rocketman wrote:
rereboy wrote:But, if he could use Kaioken x4, that flaw would cease to exist. Joining the two techniques he would make his technique complete
Ah, but when he divides his strength, the Kaioken comes harder to pull off safely by the new bodies, because they're weaker.

So? If he could pull off a kaioken x10 or x20, I think its safe to assume that each of his bodies would have no trouble pulling off a kaioken x4.

If he wanted to concentrate the maximum power he could, he wouldn`t divide like I said, but thats doesn`t change the fact that the technique would cease to have that flaw.

But its just a interesting thing to note. He probably wouldn`t ever use it because every opponent would be much stronger than him, so he would automatically want to concentrate the most power he could.

In short, I guess that we can say that with Kaioken his technique would overcome its flaw regarding his normal power, but the flaw would still exist when compared to his potential power with the kaioken without dividing.

Anyway, it would be interesting to see Tenshinhan fight, dividing himself in four and then each of them using a kaioken higher than x4 to attack the opponent 4 men to one, each one with a power higher than the power the first body had before dividing, hereby causing the complete surprise of his opponent.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:41 pm

The minute you suggest the humans use Kaioken, Rocketman comes prancing in to take a dump on you.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:46 pm

Not even King Kai himself could master the Kaio-Ken. Goku's the only one in the story to have successfully done so.

Thanks.

Kanzenshuu

Humans in the story

Humans in the story

Re: Humans in the story