Empower the Powerless

FistOfTheSun · Post by **FistOfTheSun** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:04 pm

The only gripe I had with DB/Z, is that old favourites like Tenshinhan, Kuririn, Choaz, Yajirobe and Yamucha(though his usefulness was always is question) had become either backround characters, or mere comic relief.

Anyway, this is just a creative topic where you think of ways neglected characters could catch back up to the Saiya-jins, and return to the spotlight.

I'll say an obvious one first, which is Kaio-sama had actually been bothered teaching the humans the Kaioken.

Another one I think of for Tenshinhan is, rather than unleashing the amplified energy of a Kikoho into a destrucive blast. He reabsorbs it into himself, thus granting a massive powerup. Calling this technique the Ki-Ken...

Anywayz... ideas?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:07 pm

Fuuuu-Siooon-HA!

Fusion is effin' powerful. Whether by Dance or Potara, it could have allowed the humans to be quite useful against some of the later foes. Maybe not the MAIN ones, but...

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:19 pm

Let's be honest. Yamcha was pretty useless straight away in Dragon Ball. Certainly by the time the first series ended, Yamcha was just a "sort of strong guy", nothing special. Chaozu never beat anyone. The problem isn't so much that they didn't remain relevant as fighters, so much as they didn't remain relevant as characters altogether, because there were so many other new ones coming in.

Tenshinhan probably should have stayed more relevant as time went on. After subduing Cell temporarily, Tenshinhan should have trained hard enough to at least attempt to challenge Cell in the Cell Games.

I think, though, it was largely inevitable that characters like Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Chouzu, and even Kuririn became spectators. Goku was clearly becoming stronger and stronger than them pretty early on. I just wish they didn't bother showing them if they weren't going to do anything.

I would have liked to see Yajirobe take on a Cell Junior. And eat it!

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:23 pm

Tenshinhan and Chaotzu could've always developed more psychic abilities; that would give them an advantage and it seemed to be part of their school's trademark.

As for Yajirobe, sword upgrades would be nice. Give him some sort of special sword, his own 'tetsaiga' if you will. :3

Kuririn? I know its an impossible-to-master technique, but I'd give him the kaio-ken; I think he'd use it well.

I haven't the slightest clue what to give Yamcha.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:29 pm

FistOfTheSun wrote:Another one I think of for Tenshinhan is, rather than unleashing the amplified energy of a Kikoho into a destrucive blast. He reabsorbs it into himself, thus granting a massive powerup. Calling this technique the Ki-Ken...

That'd be a major BS moment if it ever happened though. Powering up an attack and then absorbing it to become stronger? That basically makes him a perpetual energy device.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:33 pm

Amigo Ten wrote:That basically makes him a perpetual energy device.

Y'mean like the end of Movie 7 where Goku absorbed the Spirit Bomb?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:33 pm

Amigo Ten wrote:That'd be a major BS moment if it ever happened though. Powering up an attack and then absorbing it to become stronger?

Yeah, Android 13 just hates it when crap like that happens.

Saiyaman Prime · Post by **Saiyaman Prime** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:34 pm

Fusion would have been a way for them to keep the Saiyans but the Saiyan could also use it.
Even Kaioken wouldn't allow them to be on the same level as Piccolo/Saiyans. The only thing I can really think of is there being weaker henchmen that were on the humans level. While the Saiyans deal with the main villain they could take on the henchmen.
For Piccolo(well he really isn't underused but still) they could have made him do what he did in Super Sonic Warriors 2(I think?). Fuse with Piccolo Daimao.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:38 pm

Well at least with the spirit bomb Goku has to gather energy from other things. He can't just stand constantly getting stronger by absorbing his own energy. I'd imagine that would be one the most bitched about moments in the series if it ever happened.

Shiyonasan · Post by **Shiyonasan** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:44 pm

Going along with the fusion idea, me and Innagadadavida would love to see Tiencha.

Just as a temporary fusion, not a permanent fusion with the Potaras.

mattymoron · Post by **mattymoron** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:47 pm

They should've at least learned Kaioken. At least.

Tenshinhan - He should have somehow come into contact with Kaioshin, who could have let him train on his planet.

Chaozu - I don't know. I suppose he could have continued to develop his psychic abilities and then gone to Kaioshin's planet with Ten.

Kulilin - Max Power (Roshi) Kaioken anyone? I mean, assuming he masters kaioken to at least x20 by the end of the series, that'd be like a 40x increase, right?

Yamcha - Beyond learning Kaioken, I don't really see what else you could do with him.

Yajirobe - Karin gives him the "Super-Mega-Ultra-Secret-Holy-Magic Water," which gives him a massive power-up.

Scarz · Post by **Scarz** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:08 am

Chuquita wrote:Tenshinhan and Chaotzu could've always developed more psychic abilities; that would give them an advantage and it seemed to be part of their school's trademark.

I could not agree more. They really could've played more on his third eye too. I read several stories, comics, etc that played really well with the mythology behind it.

And how come everyone here wants Yamcha or Krillin to learn Kaioken? Screw the Kaioken! You can't tell me that no one here has one original idea for these two? They maybe human but they're not completely hopeless. I still believe that in Dragonball world humans have more unexplored potential than any other race....Okay maybe no the sayjin race but damn close. Kinda.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:49 am

Amigo Ten wrote:Well at least with the spirit bomb Goku has to gather energy from other things. He can't just stand constantly getting stronger by absorbing his own energy. I'd imagine that would be one the most bitched about moments in the series if it ever happened.

This. Absorbing Genki Dama makes some sense. It's not your energy. It's like when Kuririn and Gohan gave their remaining ki to Piccolo so he could attack Freeza.

I don't think Kikoho amplifies your power. It just fires a ton of it at once, which is why it can kill you if you don't leave yourself enough energy left to survive. Reabsorbing it would just fill you back up, rather than make you stronger.

As for perpetual energy, well...ki already skirts close to that. It is pretty much energy from nowhere, if we're to compare it to normal energy. No one in Dragon Ball eats enough food to account for planet killing blasts. However, it at least makes enough sense in that the bigger the ki attack is, the more ki you expend to make it.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:10 am

Creatures like Boo are pretty much perpetual energy machines, but even they don't get stronger from it. They just never lose power (unless they fight another Boo).

What would have been good for Tien is if he could have invented a bizarre technique that was actually useful. His multi-form and extra arms and stuff all proved to be pretty worthless. Blinding people with a bright light is his only lasting legacy in the series.

FistOfTheSun · Post by **FistOfTheSun** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:23 am

Amigo Ten wrote:
FistOfTheSun wrote:Another one I think of for Tenshinhan is, rather than unleashing the amplified energy of a Kikoho into a destrucive blast. He reabsorbs it into himself, thus granting a massive powerup. Calling this technique the Ki-Ken...
That'd be a major BS moment if it ever happened though. Powering up an attack and then absorbing it to become stronger? That basically makes him a perpetual energy device.

In my opinion, transformations that boost the users PL with a 50x - 500x multiplier is a far bigger BS moment than the idea of the reabsorbtion of manipulated ki.
Atleast their is some form of reasoning for the boost, where as the SSJ's transformation are spurred purely, by lets face it, having a temper tantrum.

Anyway, another one for Tenshinhan could be maybe an awakening of his "alien heritage". Though the idea isn't excepted by everyone, he is according to a Daizenshuu volume an alien descendant.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:23 am

FistOfTheSun wrote:In my opinion, transformations that boost the users PL with a 50x - 500x multiplier is a far bigger BS moment than the idea of the reabsorbtion of manipulated ki.
Atleast their is some form of reasoning for the boost, where as the SSJ's transformation are spurred purely, by lets face it, having a temper tantrum.

But even if you went Super Saiyajin, fired a super charged ki attack, then reabsorbed it, you'd still only get back what you put out in the first place. You wouldn't end up any stronger. In other words, if you could amplify your ki to put out such a powerful attack in the first place, there wouldn't be any point. Just hit them with the powerful attack instead.

Coming up with more interesting techniques would be the best way to power up these characters, I think. Despite being at a disadvantage in strength, Kuririn's Kienzan could have killed Nappa. It's not always about raw power. Variations of Kaioken would be good too. It's surprising they never learned it, considering they're always a step behind Goku.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:15 am

Krillin never went to King Kai's planet so no Kaioken for him. But something I don't get it is why humans need some kind of special technique to be on pair with Goku or Piccolo. I mean, Tienshinhan was once equal to Goku and far above him in skill.
Just like they made Piccolo to be on pair with Saiyans just by training why not the humans?

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:20 am

I really wish Yajirobe was used more and had a lot more techniques, you know. I think his fighting style would be awesome, maybe firing some Ki Blasts from the end of his blade.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 am

Senzu_Bean wrote:Krillin never went to King Kai's planet so no Kaioken for him. But something I don't get it is why humans need some kind of special technique to be on pair with Goku or Piccolo. I mean, Tenshinhan was once equal to Goku and far above him in skill.
Just like they made Piccolo to be on pair with Saiyans just by training why not the humans?

Once the Saiyans had Super Saiyan, it always put them ahead. Even if you trained as much as them and kept up with their normal forms, Super Saiyan would automatically put them far out of your league. Piccolo didn't keep up by training. Even if he caught up with their normal forms, he didn't reach/surpass their Super Saiyan forms until he fused with Kami. Then, even with that, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Trunks soon overtook him again with their new transformations and perfected Super Saiyan, not to mention SSJ2.

In other words, with characters transforming and fusing around them, the humans had no way to keep up. Even if they trained as hard as Goku and Vegeta (who never stop training), the most they could do is keep up with their normal forms. How often did anyone fight in their normal forms after Super Saiyan was introduced? That pretty much shows how far behind the humans had been left. If they were going to keep up, they needed something special of their own. A new way to surpass your own limits.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:56 am

Yamcha was never strong. He was second strongest in the Pilaf arc and went down from there, so I don't mind him remaining weak.

Chaozu was never anything greater than a Tenshinhan side-character, which I believe is why we never saw him after Mecha Freeza's arrival. I don't see him being needed any more than Kamesennin.

Yajirobe NEVER wanted to fight, he was just naturally strong so he got drafted in the Saiyan fight. I like him being there just as supporting comic relief, because he was introduced as such.

Krillin becoming weak is ok with me. He stayed active up to the android saga, in which he acknowledges that he can't keep up with SSJs. Then he becomes a perfect support character for that arc. I just wish he could have better maintained that role prior to his death in the Boo arc.

Tenshinhan was wasted. We're given foreshadowing of his ability to improve upon the Kaioken and then he never does. I'd rather see a "Shin-Kaioken", that is, something as powerful as Kaioken x25 without the faults of regular kaiokens, and then able to go up to x50 in order to still be an active fighter in the SSJ era, which would force him to become a support character in the Cell arc once USSJ and beyond gets introduced.

Kanzenshuu

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