Who's stronger Kid Buu or Fat Buu (full power)?

Yamcha_krillin · Post by **Yamcha_krillin** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:05 pm

Who do you guys think is more powerful and why?

I think that Fat Buu is.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:08 pm

Chibi Buu or whatever. Goku said he could have beat Fat Buu but Chibi Buu was basically joking with him.

Eddie · Post by **Eddie** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:08 pm

Chibi Buu, definitely. There is a ton of evidence supporting that in nearly all things that anybody could find canon in any way. Fat Buu is probably Buu's weakest form.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:40 pm

They seem to be in the same general range of power, that being, "forms of Buu that SSj3 Goku could supposedly defeat."

Kid Buu appears to be the stronger of the two, though.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:45 pm

Senzu_Bean wrote:Chibi Buu or whatever. Goku said he could have beat Fat Buu but Chibi Buu was basically joking with him.

Well, when Goku said he could have beaten Fat Buu, but when he fought him he was dead, and his afterlife body could handle SSJ3 better. It's possible that this was the reason he had such trouble with Kid Buu. Plus he fights like crazy, never giving you a chance to catch your breath. Also, don't forget that Goku thought he could defeat Kid Buu, too; can we really rely on his judgment alone?

I think it could go either way. I mean, Kid Buu annihilated Earth, but we don't think that Fat Buu couldn't, do we? He was stronger than Cell, so there's no reason he couldn't. Kid Buu was just far crazier, while Fat Buu was sort of playing around. Why blow up your playground and all your playmates right away?

Edit: I agree with Kaboom. They're in that same vague sort of league, closer to each other than they are to a lot of the other Buus. I think it's hard to say if Kid Buu is stronger or just crazier, though.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 pm

Kid Boo easily. Goku claimed he would've had to go all-out against Kid Boo, while stating he could've wasted fat man on the same page. Goku already had an understanding of what the form could do outside of the otherworld, as he mentions this to Piccolo about how it drains energy. He didn't get any stronger after fighting Super Saiyan 3 Goku, and was just shown to be weaker than a Goku stalling for time, no less.

Goku left an unknown fusion to deal with fat man. I don't see a reason why Kid Boo would be considered weaker than a full-power never remotely hinted at being anything significant.

And yes, while Goku & Vegeta agreed he could take Kid Boo out--the same Goku regretted not using the potara, claiming he tried to look cool.

Yamcha_krillin · Post by **Yamcha_krillin** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:13 am

Goku fought a supressed Fat Buu, he never fought Fat Buu at his full power so i doubt about his stament, since he didn't know how powerfull Fat Buu at full power was.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:33 am

Suppressed? No proof of that. We do have Piccolo claiming Goku didn't go all-out, with Goku complying with that later--so the same could be said about Goku. Anyway, where was his full-power even implied to be anything special? No one sensed his power until he transformed into Super Boo, so his power isn't big enough to reach the Kaioshin planet. And it never was implied to be above Goku's ever.

So, where is his full-power implied to be remotely great? Let alone better than Goku's full-power?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:39 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Suppressed? No proof of that. We do have Piccolo claiming Goku didn't go all-out, with Goku complying with that later--so the same could be said about Goku. Anyway, where was his full-power even implied to be anything special? No one sensed his power until he transformed into Super Boo, so his power isn't big enough to reach the Kaioshin planet. And it never was implied to be above Goku's ever.

So, where is his full-power implied to be remotely great? Let alone better than Goku's full-power?

This combined with the fact that SSJ3 Goku NOT going all out against Fat Boo = Goku dominating, whereas SSJ3 Goku INDEED going all out against Kid Boo = tie tells me Kid Boo.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:43 am

Goku - "I could have made Majin Buu my bitch while in SSJ3. But I wanted Vegeta's kid, which is a faggot by the way and my son to beat the crap of Buu."

Piccolo - "Ridiculous!"

This is, more or less, what Goku said to Piccolo. Goku clearly said he could have beaten Majin Buu.

Yamcha_krillin · Post by **Yamcha_krillin** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:37 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Suppressed? No proof of that. We do have Piccolo claiming Goku didn't go all-out, with Goku complying with that later--so the same could be said about Goku. Anyway, where was his full-power even implied to be anything special? No one sensed his power until he transformed into Super Boo, so his power isn't big enough to reach the Kaioshin planet. And it never was implied to be above Goku's ever.

Did they sense Kid Buu on Kaioshin planet?

I don't recall.

Yes he was suppressed because he didn't power up when he fought Goku.

We know that this Buu powers up only when he gets angry and Goku didn't make him angry.

Dayspring wrote:This combined with the fact that SSJ3 Goku NOT going all out against Fat Boo = Goku dominating, whereas SSJ3 Goku INDEED going all out against Kid Boo = tie tells me Kid Boo.

Goku's hits didn't even faze or hurt a bit Fat Buu

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:23 pm

Yamcha_krillin wrote:Did they sense Kid Buu on Kaioshin planet?

I don't recall.

Kid Boo fought on the Kaioshin planet, so I don't see how that would be possible.

Oh, and once the Genki-Dama erased Kid Boo--Piccolo informed everyone that "Boo's Chi has disappeared" or along those lines--this while being on earth. So that's an example of someone sensing Kid Boo from far away.

Yes he was suppressed because he didn't power up when he fought Goku.

That's not suppressed. He wasn't going all-out, but neither was Goku, as stated or implied a good few times--so again, what is his power being above Goku's based on? Goku was stalling for Trunks, so it's obvious he wasn't fighting him seriously. Even so, though--Super Saiyan 3 Goku playing around>Fat Man. The latter was even surprised that his punch did no damage to Goku. Goku only was surprised when he saw his regeneration, but not any time before that. Why? Because he wasn't tryin to damage fat man in the battle.

We know that this Buu powers up only when he gets angry and Goku didn't make him angry.

Fat man looked perfectly happy when he powered-up against Dabra.

And once he started doing it later on earth, Piccolo never once mentioned his power increasing at all. All he noted was that there was a problem with him. His energy was never implied to be enough to reach any far distance, Chi-sensing wise--and the first thing Goku mentions is: "Is this Majin Boo's Chi? What's going on" right after he transformed into Super Boo. If fat man was nearly as strong as you think, they should've been aware that his power was rising rapidly and above Goku's or close. Never implied, so he ain't that strong. Even Super Saiyan Gotenks was implied to be sensed on the Kaioshin planet. Not once is this said about fat man's power.

The guy never even has an additional power-up after his battle with Vegeta and fails to finish him in his powered-up angry explosion. He's not that strong.

smiley · Post by **smiley** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:43 pm

I don't have a problem with either of them being stronger, but the Fat Buu side has always made more sense to me.

Since Chibi Buu absorbed Southern and Dai Kaioshin, and Southern Kaioshin is stated to have the greater power than Dai, his increasing influence on Buu's power would outweigh Dai Kaioshin's innocent ki weakening Buu, thereby making the result (Fat Buu) stronger than Chibi Buu. And Fat Buu also seems to be getting more power through anger.

Oh, and Goku said (at first) that he'd need to go all out to stand a chance against Buu, but Vegeta and he later both agreed that he would easily obliterate him if he reached full power.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:55 pm

smiley wrote:Since Chibi Buu absorbed Southern and Dai Kaioshin, and Southern Kaioshin is stated to have the greater power than Dai, his increasing influence on Buu's power would outweigh Dai Kaioshin's innocent ki weakening Buu, thereby making the result (Fat Buu) stronger than Chibi Buu. And Fat Buu also seems to be getting more power through anger.

Dai's effect outweighed SK's by a good bit. The true power of that form wasn't revealed until Mr. Boo was ripped away; the previous Boo before that was strong enough to at least equal Gotenks to an extent, and Mega Boo was stated to be even greater than that. I don't see how Dai's effect is overtaken in this situation. He simply can't reach those higher levels without splitting.

Oh, and Goku said (at first) that he'd need to go all out to stand a chance against Buu, but Vegeta and he later both agreed that he would easily obliterate him if he reached full power.

That was never stated. Vegeta claimed Goku could wipe Boo out with his Chi if he gathered it for a min. No different than the Raditz fight when Piccolo needed to build up Chi to trash Raditz. And it was never stated to be "easily" anywhere. If anything, the way Goku nonchalantly mentions he could've wasted fat man implies that would've been easily.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:56 pm

All out = Full power

Plus only Dai Kaioshin influenced Buu's personality because of his purity. Even though South Kaioshin was the strongest Kaioshin he only made Buu stronger. Probably because he wasn't as pure as Dai.

smiley · Post by **smiley** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:27 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote: Dai's effect outweighed SK's by a good bit. The true power of that form wasn't revealed until Mr. Boo was ripped away; the previous Boo before that was strong enough to at least equal Gotenks to an extent, and Mega Boo was stated to be even greater than that. I don't see how Dai's effect is overtaken in this situation. He simply can't reach those higher levels without splitting.

How does that make sense though? If Southern Kaioshin is stronger than Dai, logically - his ki would outweigh Dai Kaioshin's good influence, because he has the greater amount of ki.

Say, something like this.

Dai Kaioshin - 5
Southern Kaioshin - 10
Chibi Buu - 20

So, Fat Buu would be equivalent of Chibi Buu and Southern Kaioshin factoring in to his overall power, and Dai Kaioshin suppressing him down with his innocent ki. Since Southern Kaioshin's ki is stated to be greater, it's only logical to assume that his increasing influence on Buu's power would outweigh Dai's. That's how I've always interpreted it at least.

Chibi Buu (20) + Southern Kaioshin (10) - Dai Kaioshin (5) = Fat Buu (25).

That was never stated. Vegeta claimed Goku could wipe Boo out with his Chi if he gathered it for a min. No different than the Raditz fight when Piccolo needed to build up Chi to trash Raditz.

That's a possible interpretation, but I disagree. Goku says this while Vegeta is trying to hold off Kid Buu.

"I...I got close to full power, but I'm starting to lose Chi again."

That sounds to me like he's really trying to tap into the "full power" of Super Saiyan 3, not just charging up an attack like Makankosappo. Sort of like how Freeza needed time to power up to 100%.

And yeah, he had to obliterate him with Chi, because that's the only way you can completely wipe out any form of Buu. Just punching and kicking him isn't going to work.

And it was never stated to be "easily" anywhere. If anything, the way Goku nonchalantly mentions he could've wasted fat man implies that would've been easily.

He said he would be able to "obliterate him instantly". That sounds like it would be pretty easy.

And he only says that he could have defeated Fat Buu. He never says how difficult it would be. For all we know, he might have needed full power to barely edge it out.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:54 pm

smiley wrote:How does that make sense though? If Southern Kaioshin is stronger than Dai, logically - his ki would outweigh Dai Kaioshin's good influence, because he has the greater amount of ki.

Say, something like this.

Dai Kaioshin - 5
Southern Kaioshin - 10
Chibi Buu - 20

The amount of Chi isn't really the case here, though. We don't know SK's influence or how he even affected him aside from increasing his power; all we know is how much Dai influenced him once he absorbed him. It seemed to be a whole lot, since Super Boo & Mega Boo are way more powerful than fat man tapping into his power before splitting.

That's a possible interpretation, but I disagree. Goku says this while Vegeta is trying to hold off Kid Buu.

"I...I got close to full power, but I'm starting to lose Chi again."

That sounds to me like he's really trying to tap into the "full power" of Super Saiyan 3, not just charging up an attack like Makankosappo. Sort of like how Freeza needed time to power up to 100%.

Goku also says he'd need to revv up for a min to "have enough power". I also think he states "this isn't enough. I need more Chi", which, to me, implies he needed more Chi to have a better chance at wiping Boo out.

It's also possible that Goku was losing power throughout the battle. He seemed awfully frustrated that Boo's Chi never went down, which seems to imply his own Chi isn't exactly in top form.

And yeah, he had to obliterate him with Chi, because that's the only way you can completely wipe out any form of Buu. Just punching and kicking him isn't going to work.

If you're that much stronger, you could beat him down until he's damn near close to being wiped out. Kid Boo did just that to Mr. Boo.

He said he would be able to "obliterate him instantly". That sounds like it would be pretty easy.

Vegeta just says "Build up your Chi with Super Saiyan 3, and you should be able to obliterate him." The instantly/easily part isn't indicated anywhere from what I see--just that he should have enough power to obliterate him if he gathers it.

And he only says that he could have defeated Fat Buu. He never says how difficult it would be. For all we know, he might have needed full power to barely edge it out.

I don't think he needs to. It's just stated and left at that. His stalling power was enough to make a joke of fat man during battle; considering both of their max powers, Goku should still come out on top. I personally don't think he could beat any version of Super Saiyan 3 Goku based on the fact that his power was never stated to rise when he got royally pissed. He simply dumped all of it into a cloud and created another Boo.

Also, the difference here, is that Goku left an unknown fusion to deal with him and even claimed it was a gamble--then goes on to say they can't lose if they fuse properly. He simply states he could've beaten him if he wanted to without a shade of doubt, but didn't. The fact that Goku seems to be cursing himself for not using the potara even after Vegeta states he could wipe Boo out shows they clearly underestimated his power, and that it would in no way be an "easy" task to wipe him out. I also recall him believing he tried to look cool fighting without fusion or some stuff.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:19 pm

smiley wrote:How does that make sense though? If Southern Kaioshin is stronger than Dai, logically - his ki would outweigh Dai Kaioshin's good influence, because he has the greater amount of ki.

Not everything is based on the larger ki in Dragonball. Dai Kaioshin was pure and South Kaioshin was not.

Eddie · Post by **Eddie** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:33 pm

Bringing made up numbers into the discussion is pointless. DBZ is not algebra. 25 x does not equal Goku y. Nobody can assign a number to the battle powers of Buu, SSJ3 Goku, or any of the Kaioshin. If Fat Buu was stronger than Chibi Buu, don't you think he would have won their fight? That's how I see it. You don't have to agree. The point is, trying to add the sum of South Kaioshin and Buu, minus Dai Kaioshin, plus 9000 divided by the square root of Kamehameha does not equal anything. It's mumbo jumbo. Hogwash. Bullsh- uh, I think I'll stop there.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:51 pm

Well, the focus seems to be on fat man before splitting as being stronger than Kid Boo. Mr. Boo is the one after expelling the evil energy, who loses power in the process--and promptly gets owned.

Still, he appears to be weaker than Kid Boo to me.