Maximum busting capabilities?

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:18 am

This is my first thread here (I have been viewing the site for a long time now and I join a few days ago), and sorry if this was done before (I use the search bar and found nothing).

What's the maximum busting capability of a DBZ character in terms of Planet/Solar System/Galaxy/Universe/Multiverse Busting? [In other words in what busting term would you give to Super Vegeto and the rest of the characters of the series (canon wise)]

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:39 am

Busting as in, what could they destroy? Hmm...

Cell claims to have enough ki to blow away the entire solar system. In before Rocketman points out that this is insane and should have destroyed Earth.

It's hard to gauge anything after that point, I think, but I doubt anyone gets to galaxy busting power levels. Not in the manga, at least. In filler, Buu has a temper tantrum and starts tearing holes in space, which threatens to...uh...I dunno, destroy the universe? Or a small part of it, at least. Apparently 'dimensions' would come crashing through the holes and crush our 'dimension'.

I have dimensions in quotes because I'm assuming they mean universes/planes. Technically speaking, a dimension is a direction or axis.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:47 am

Bussani wrote:I have dimensions in quotes because I'm assuming they mean universes/planes. Technically speaking, a dimension is a direction or axis.

You... you... said it!

Someone finally said it!
Crap, I actually finished the tedious part of a vector character image for the first time in like five years, have no idea what the age/gender/cerebral status of the person sitting across from me in the cafeteria an hour and a half ago was(were?), and someone points out the difference between dimension and universe...
... If I catch up on the three weeks of homework I'm not caught up on today and actually do awesome things while swordfighting this afternoon, this might be the best day of the whole year!

Ur, back on topic.

I'm guessing blowing up stars isn't particularly difficult for Buu (probably Cell could, given his claim.).
Galaxies? That'd be like blowing up an army of balloons, that are spread out over a few hundred square miles, for an ant. Heck, I question if setting off a nuke in something of that area would do the trick.

.
Any galactic destruction would probably require someone shattering a huge chunk of the center of mass there (I'm assuming this wouldn't include any super-massive black holes that would in all likelyhood comprise the actual center of mass...) and just waiting the few thousand years to see if the rest of it falls apart.

. Teleportation is fun?

Ur, or Buu can yell at space and make it bleed.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:02 am

I think their Multiplanet busters at the end of the Manga. Hard to say for solar system feats. I've never seen any evidence aside from one statement from a braggard that an entire solar system could be wiped out with a single blast from Cell.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:11 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:I think their Multiplanet busters at the end of the Manga. Hard to say for solar system feats. I've never seen any evidence aside from one statement from a braggard that an entire solar system could be wiped out with a single blast from Cell.

Speaking of multiplanets, apparently Daizenshuu 7 claims that 300 kiri is enough to destroy up to two planets. Goku's kiri rating as a Super Saiyan was 3000 in the Buu saga.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:12 am

Bussani wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:I think their Multiplanet busters at the end of the Manga. Hard to say for solar system feats. I've never seen any evidence aside from one statement from a braggard that an entire solar system could be wiped out with a single blast from Cell.
Speaking of multiplanets, apparently Daizenshuu 7 claims that 300 kiri is enough to destroy up to two planets. Goku's kiri rating as a Super Saiyan was 3000 in the Buu saga.

Going by that, the minimum of planets Goku could destroy at his SSJ3 state would be 160, and that counts for many solar systems.
We have 13 planets (including dwarf planets) in our solar system.
Goku, with a 3000 kiri power, could then have destroyed 20 planets.
So, yeah, Cell could have destroyed a solar system of our size, since he was stronger than Goku's 3000 kiri as Super Perfect.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:18 am

Godo wrote:
Bussani wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:I think their Multiplanet busters at the end of the Manga. Hard to say for solar system feats. I've never seen any evidence aside from one statement from a braggard that an entire solar system could be wiped out with a single blast from Cell.
Speaking of multiplanets, apparently Daizenshuu 7 claims that 300 kiri is enough to destroy up to two planets. Goku's kiri rating as a Super Saiyan was 3000 in the Buu saga.
Going by that, the minimum of planets Goku could destroy at his SSJ3 state would be 160, and that counts for many solar systems.
We have 13 planets (including dwarf planets) in our solar system.
Goku, with a 3000 kiri power, could then have destroyed 20 planets.
So, yeah, Cell could have destroyed a solar system of our size, since he was stronger than Goku's 3000 kiri as Super Perfect.

That's assuming that Super Saiyan forms multiply kiris in the same way that they multiply battle powers. But yeah, 20 planets. That's pretty impressive.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:43 am

I for one believe Cell's claim, however ridiculous it is. I think he could, if he tried, but all his power into an explosive that would spread out in all directions shattering every mass in the solar system (again, I'm aware of how absolutely ludicrous that sounds).

So... maximum capabilites? Vegetto could tear the universe a new one if he wanted I'd say. Regular super Boo is already at the level of being able to rip through "dimensions" with a shout.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:57 pm

The maximum busting I would be willing to grant is a gas giant like Jupiter, and even that is very iffy.

smiley · Post by **smiley** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:35 pm

I think even the Daizenshuu confirmed Cell's claim to be true - so I don't think there's much argument here.

Manga-wise: Multi-star systems by the top tiers

Anime-wise: Galaxy-level, as Buu is shown doing it on-screen.

Super Buu (w/Gohan absorbed) could "destroy the universe" with the chain reaction, but not through raw power.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:46 pm

smiley wrote:I think even the Daizenshuu confirmed Cell's claim to be true - so I don't think there's much argument here.

The Daizenshuu doesn't know its head from its ass.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:50 pm

Rocketman wrote:The maximum busting I would be willing to grant is a gas giant like Jupiter, and even that is very iffy.

King Cold, when he was reaching Earth, stated that Earth was a pretty small planet and that Freeza could destroy it easily.

A big planet for him would probably be something like Jupiter, so I think that you are underestimating how strong the fighters are supposed to be after Namek.

smiley · Post by **smiley** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:59 pm

Rocketman wrote:
smiley wrote:I think even the Daizenshuu confirmed Cell's claim to be true - so I don't think there's much argument here.
The Daizenshuu doesn't know its head from its ass.

Substantiate.

I think it's pretty accurate personally.

And it isn't much down to opinion, as Toriyama himself apparently considers it a reliable source of information, and approves of it as canon.

Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:18 pm

The Daizenshuu also gets a good amount of basic, observable things wrong that are clear to see in the manga. It's not infallible.

Plus, Toriyama just said it would have been a handy reference for himself to have while he was still writing the actual manga. He's not making some statement of, "this book's word is law," or anything like that.

smiley · Post by **smiley** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:30 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:The Daizenshuu also gets a good amount of basic, observable things wrong that are clear to see in the manga.

Like, which ones?

Show me some direct contradictions - that stand outside of interpretation.

Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:33 pm

smiley wrote:Show me some direct contradictions - that stand outside of interpretation. I'm not familiar with any.

Biggest one I can think of is that Gohan was an SSj2 against Dabra, when it was plain to see in the manga he was only using SSj1. There's also the self-contradiction with Raditz' power level.

There are a few others, but I can't remember them at the moment.

smiley · Post by **smiley** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:44 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote: Biggest one I can think of is that Gohan was an SSj2 against Dabra, when it was plain to see in the manga he was only using SSj1.

If it was so plain to see, then there wouldn't be so many arguments and different opinions on the subject.

I asked for direct contradictions - this one is up to interpretation.

There's also the self-contradiction with Raditz' power level.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:00 pm

I think the Daizenshuu states that Nappa`s power level is 4000.

Well, this is impossible because, when Nappa calmed down he was able to fight Goku (who was over 8000) almost toe to toe, and Goku himself seems impressed by his ultimate technique and says that the fight may take a long time to get settled.

Nappa had to be higher than 4000.

And thats just an example.

Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:14 pm

smiley wrote:If it was so plain to see, then there wouldn't be so many arguments and different opinions on the subject.

It is plain to see. SSj2 always has lightning bolts in the aura when drawn in the manga. ALWAYS, even when the aura is only shown for a single panel. Gohan had no lightning bolts. Therefore Gohan was not an SSj2.

If the Daizenshuu had not mistakenly said he was one, there would be no such differing opinions. But the simple truth is that the guidebook does not take precedence over the original material it's meant to complement.

Manga says he was an SSj1. Daizenshuu says he was an SSj2. When the guidebook contradicts the manga, then the guidebook is wrong. That's all there is to it.

Now, something like Vegetto having lightning bolts when he first transformed, but not having any for the rest of the battle... THAT is something that might be up for interpretation. But there's no such ambiguity with Gohan against Dabra.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Raditz is listed with a BP of 1200 in one section, and 1500 in another.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:18 pm

The art in the manga says he was Super Saiyan 1. As far as the writing goes, that doesn't make a lick of sense. That's why there's disagreements.

Kanzenshuu

Maximum busting capabilities?

Maximum busting capabilities?

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