No more "playing the victim"

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:25 pm

A revision to the forum rules has been made which is effective immediately.

Located under / as a part of "RULE #5: ATTITUDE / EMPHASIS":

Daizenshuu EX Forum Rules wrote:We also ask that our forum members never mid-conversation play the card of acting like a victim. Please understand that with so many aspects and products of the franchise in existence, it is possible (and likely) that many will come under close scrutiny. Be realistic about it and pay attention to what is actually being discussed and argued; realize that when inanimate objects are being criticized, it is not a personal attack on you. If any forum member in any situation "plays the victim" for any reason, they will be subject to an immediate one-week temporary ban.

I don't think I need to say it, but this has been brought about due to the domestic "Dragon Box" threads which have resulted in locked conversations. It is absolutely unacceptable, and reflects poorly on Daizenshuu EX and fandom in general. This is not how you should be conducting yourselves, and this is not how any of us should want to be seen and represented. I'm sorry that this even needs to be formally written up.

We've pretty much had it up to here with people making up crazy, delusional arguments that don't even exist in the conversations taking place... somehow getting offended over it... and then lashing out in response.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:37 pm

Do you think this is something that people decide to do? Personally I think it's more of something that happens in the heat of the moment when somebody who's inexperienced in expressing their thoughts gets in over their head in an argument.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:41 pm

Innagadadavida wrote:Do you think this is something that people decide to do? Personally I think it's more of something that happens in the heat of the moment when somebody who's inexperienced in expressing their thoughts gets in over their head in an argument.

For most people falling into this trap, I personally believe it is part of their character. Sorry to say, but quite frankly, it is not welcome here. I use the word "delusional" for a reason. It is impossible to logically converse with people in these situations.

For others, sure, they may get lost in the "heat of the battle" and just not be paying attention to what's really being discussed. In this case, the temporary ban is the perfect little cool-off and reminder. For these people, they are logical and in retrospect will understand what happened.

I hope to never have to actually enforce this part of the rules from here-on out, but all moderators are on-board and will not hesitate to jump in if necessary.

Rod · Post by **Rod** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:47 pm

I don't understand, what's "playing the victim"?

Post by **Herms** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:50 pm

Rod wrote:I don't understand, what's "playing the victim"?

Forum member 1: Product X sucks.

Forum member 2: WHY DOES EVERYONE HATE ME!?!?!?!

verto · Post by **verto** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:56 pm

I agree with this rule, and I know that most of this comes from the dub fans, but will the opposite also be taken into account? One of my first posts here I was talking about the scene with Gohan going SS2 and I said that I didn't think the music was appropriate. Right away I was flamed for it, I know whoever posted it was told that his post was unacceptable, but it does still happen (just with less profane word choice).

I realize this post may sound like I'm playing the victim but I'm really not trying to. So if it does sound like that, I'm sorry.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:58 pm

The opposite (being a jackass to someone based on their opinions) is already covered thoroughly under the other, more general rules.

BrollysKin · Post by **BrollysKin** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:59 pm

I fully agree with this revision of the rules. However it should be noted that occasionally ad hominem's replace logical arguments in the first place so I guess I could see why some people occasionally feel attacked.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:17 pm

Herms wrote:
Rod wrote:I don't understand, what's "playing the victim"?
Forum member 1: Product X sucks.

Forum member 2: WHY DOES EVERYONE HATE ME!?!?!?!

To expand on this clear example, it often goes as far as a fan of a product accusing everyone who doesn't like the product themselves of just agreeing with each other like sheep and picking on them. It makes no sense. It's bad enough that they take your dislike of a product they like as a personal insult, but then they basically say that everyone's opinions are invalid and they're only 'picking on it' because it's 'cool to hate it', like there's some kind of group vendetta against it.

Heaven forbid that people actually see valid flaws in the thing. Heck, I point out flaws in things all the time, but that doesn't even mean that I hate them.

In short, I think this is one of the best rules ever.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:17 am

verto wrote:I know that most of this comes from the dub fans

To be completely fair on that, the true "dub fans" here at Daizex don't do that kind of thing for the most part, we tend to just get a bad rap from our counterparts at other places around the internet... so I don't think this rule should ever have to be used.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:30 am

SSJ2bardock wrote:
verto wrote:I know that most of this comes from the dub fans
To be completely fair on that, the true "dub fans" here at Daizex don't do that kind of thing for the most part, we tend to just get a bad rap from our counterparts at other places around the internet... so I don't think this rule should ever have to be used.

I seriously beg to differ. There have been plenty examples of people doing this around here. Not necessarily just in sub/dub matters, of course. At least 1 thread got locked today in relation to this sort of thing, and there have been plenty of others in the past.

Mike didn't add this rule for no reason.

Eddie · Post by **Eddie** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:47 am

This is a great rule. I know the "Can't we all just get along?" idea is a bit cheesy, but I'm a big fan of it. Seriously, people, I like Dragon Ball, you like Dragon Ball, let's get some good conversation going. I joined this forum (something I typically don't do) because I listened to the podcast, heard about the forum, & discovered that this was a community of intelligent, helpful fans. Our mods have been working overtime lately, though. Let's all try to play nice & keep them from having to break up our school yard quarrels, okay?

Oh, and there should also be a NO RANDOM BATMAN rule.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:21 pm

I definately agree with this rule. Why?

Because of that we all have something in common. It's Dragonball. That's why we are here in the 1st place.
Also, this forum emphasizes a lot on discussing Dragonball, and Dragonball only. The products are all a part of it. Thus, it should be allowed to express our opinions without someone whining about how unfair it is that this person and that person are against the product being discussed, and that so many persons are against him/her because of that.
I think that this rule wouldn't be necessary if people actually realized that we all share the love to Dragonball, and whatever happens, no one is better. Thus people wouldn't feel like victims, and others wouldn't bash each other.

'Cuz in the end, whether you watch the Japanese Dragonbox or Funi's sets with the dub on the highest volume, rocking back and forth screaming "HELL YEAH!", you are still the fan of the same thing, like when Gohan reached SSJ2, when Goku defeated Piccolo or when Vegeta blasted the hell out of Pui Pui, moments we all love to rewatch over and over again.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:49 pm

Bussani wrote:
SSJ2bardock wrote:
verto wrote:I know that most of this comes from the dub fans
To be completely fair on that, the true "dub fans" here at Daizex don't do that kind of thing for the most part, we tend to just get a bad rap from our counterparts at other places around the internet... so I don't think this rule should ever have to be used.
I seriously beg to differ. There have been plenty examples of people doing this around here. Not necessarily just in sub/dub matters, of course. At least 1 thread got locked today in relation to this sort of thing, and there have been plenty of others in the past.

Mike didn't add this rule for no reason.

It seems like this is the exception to the rule, that's all I'm saying. I should also add that I haven't seen the threads in question, nor do I know who was "playing the victim".

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:29 pm

SSJ2bardock wrote: It seems like this is the exception to the rule, that's all I'm saying. I should also add that I haven't seen the threads in question, nor do I know who was "playing the victim".

I know of three. I've been in a position in the past where I played the victim.

Not my most proud moment, but since then I've gained a little perspective and that type of thing won't happen again. A lot of people accuse jjgp112 of playing the victim, and he has in the past, but he didn't do it in the most recent thread. There was only one person really playing the victim in the thread that got closed and I'm afraid jjgp112 was grouped with him because of what he was saying.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:26 pm

I said this rule is effective immediately going forward.

Sure, it's because of previous events, but that doesn't mean that anyone needs to drag others through the mud due to past conversations. I'm letting everyone start fresh in this respect, and I'd appreciate it if you'd give your peers the same respect.

There's nothing else to discuss. Locking.