Strongest un-fused character

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:32 am

Does Daizenshuu really states Gohan is the strongest un-fused character at the end of Dragonball? Most people usually says it but I only have seen Gohan being stated as stronger than Gotenks and Chibi Buu being referred to the strongest guy when he was defeated.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:36 am

Personally, I like to think Goku was the strongest by the very end of the series.

Sunlight & City Night · Post by **Sunlight & City Night** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:05 am

I always assumed it was Buu because Goku couldn't defeat him without everyone's energy placed into a Genki Dama.

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:06 am

Damn, I was gonna point the Boo thing out. It makes sense that he'd be the strongest, though we don't know if Goku surpassed Boo at the end though. It was 10 years later, he could have probably done it...

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:12 am

I don't think the Daizenshuu says anything about it. It's assumed that Gohan was the strongest un-fused good guy by simple logic.

SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku: Gotenks at SSJ1 could fight with Super Buu, who was >= Fat Buu, who Goku had to use SSJ3 against.

Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks: Goten and Trunks (in Trunks' case, reluctantly) agree that Gohan was stronger than Gotenks at SSJ3. He's probably quite a bit stronger, in fact, considering how easily he trounced Super Buu.

There's no way of knowing how strong Goku was at the very end, after that 10 year gap. He (or his SSJ3, at least) could possibly have caught up with Gohan, but Gohan would probably still have the advantage in stamina. The only characters known for sure to be stronger are Gotenks-Buu, Gohan-Buu and Vegetto.

As for Kid Buu, he was most likely stronger than Fat Buu (which seems to be explicitly stated in the Japanese version), but he was still at the sort of level that SSJ3 Goku could put up a fight.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:14 am

Buu didn't seem as the stronger one by far. As a SSJ3, Goku kicked his ass, and the only problem with his was his regeneration. Otherwise, Vegeta could have taken care of him as a SSJ2.
The thing is that it seems like it takes at least two times the power of a SSJ3 to defeat Buu easily.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:16 am

I always thought that was the because the Spirit Bomb just gathered energy without concentrating it.

WhatTheDarn · Post by **WhatTheDarn** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:18 am

Technically... that kid who defeated Goku in the Budokai in GT surpassed all other non-fused characters.

hui43210 · Post by **hui43210** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:31 am

I say Gohan for sure is way stronger than Goku and Vegeta at the end. If you think about it, it doesn't make sense otherwise.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:57 am

Arale.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:04 am

It's probably worth noting that even though it took the big Genki Dama to finally put Kid Buu down, Goku did think that he would be able to annihilate him with SSJ3 if he could only gather enough ki.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:11 am

Well different times had different strongest characters.

- Up until the defeat of Frieza, Frieza was the most powerful throughout the entire series of Dragon Ball and through the Saiyan and Namek Sagas

- Goku was the most powerful up the Androids came along, and then Cell started absorbing them, becoming the most powerful

- When Vegeta and Trunks got out of the Time Chamber, I'm pretty sure they were more powerful than Cell, but Cell was faster and therefore was able to defeat them. Also, Cell could have apparently became more powerful the entire time, but knew the consequences it would have on his speed

- Cell was most powerful until Gohan became a Super Saiyan 2 and surpassed him

- Gohan was probably the strongest until the Buu Saga

- Goku could have turned Super Saiyan 3 when he came back to Earth, making him the most powerful. He would've defeated Majin Vegeta and he later stated he could have beaten Fat Buu

- When Buu absorbed Gotenks, Piccolo, and Gohan, he clearly became the strongest for that period of time. I don't know if you want to call it a fused character, but I think absorption is different than Fusion. Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to count Cell either.

- Not counting Vegito, Goku was most powerful after that as well. Vegta claimed that he knew Goku could have defeated Kid Buu and was holding back for the sake of Vegeta's pride. Goku said he lost a lot of his energy fighting Buu and therefore could not defeat him like that.

- Of course at the very end of Z (10 years later), Goku was the most powerful

- In GT, Goku was most powerful up until Baby Vegeta came along. However, Goku's transformation into Super Saiyan 4 took him to the next level.

- In the very end of GT, after Goku showed he was more powerful than anyone, even Super 17, who would've been defeated easily if he had not been absorbing Goku's energy, Omega Shenron was the most powerful and sadly, believe it or not, that was the most powerful character at the end of it all. Unless Goku surpassed him after growing up, which...who knows? Maybe

That's just my way of thinking about it. I'm open to criticism because I'm sure that it's possible I missed something or have something inaccurate, but that's the way I think it was.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:26 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:- Not counting Vegito, Goku was most powerful after that as well. Vegta claimed that he knew Goku could have defeated Kid Buu and was holding back for the sake of Vegeta's pride. Goku said he lost a lot of his energy fighting Buu and therefore could not defeat him like that.

Actually, when Vegeta told Goku not to hold back, Goku told him that he hadn't been, and that he was fighting all out. Buu wasn't giving him a chance to gather enough power to finish the fight. SSJ3 Goku would have to be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks to be stronger than Gohan, at that point.

- Of course at the very end of Z (10 years later), Goku was the most powerful

There's nothing to really base that on. We only see him fight Uub in his base state. We can guess or assume, but that's all.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:34 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:- When Vegeta and Trunks got out of the Time Chamber, I'm pretty sure they were more powerful than Cell, but Cell was faster and therefore was able to defeat them. Also, Cell could have apparently became more powerful the entire time, but knew the consequences it would have on his speed

Well, Vegeta was most definitely weaker than Cell. Trunks was stronger than Cell's current level, but nowhere near his full power.

Senzu_Bean · Post by **Senzu_Bean** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:37 am

But what about is stated in the Daizenshuu?

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece · Post by **Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:07 pm

I've always assumed that it was Gohan in the manga and Goku in the anime.

In the manga, Goku goes SSJ3 against Buu so that he can stall for time (he later states that he could easily have killed Buu, but wanted Gohan and Goten to do it, so that they could actually protect the world).

Gotenks might be really really strong, but all of that is lost in his playful form, so I don't really think he matters too much. He's fused anyway.

Gohan, on the other hand, is able to single handedly hold back Super Buu and fight toe to toe with Gotenks Buu (for a while).

This is the strongest character that a non-fused character fights in the manga (to my knowledge. I don't have volume 42, so I don't know if what I'm thinking of is filler or not). Therefore, we must assume that Gohan is the strongest character by the end of the Buu arc.

In the anime, however, there are filler scenes of SSJ3 Goku going toe to toe with Gotenks Buu as Gohan looks for the potara. While this does happen somewhat in the manga, it is extremely short.

Later on, SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta take on Gohan Buu (the strongest villain in DragonBall Z by far). This actually lasts for quite a while, and I'm not sure if this is filler or not.

So in the manga Gohan can take on Gotenks Buu, and last significantly longer than Goku could hope to.

In the anime, Gohan and Goku can take on Gotenks Buu to the same capacity, and Goku and Vegeta can even take on Gohan Buu (though it is a losing battle).

So it depends on whether or not you're watching the anime or reading the manga.

TheNamek · Post by **TheNamek** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:13 pm

Even Supreme Kai said that Gohan was the strongest fighter at the tournament, after vegeta saying he was weaker than the fight with Cell. Add on the Old kai unlocking his hidden power; Youve got one seriously strong Gohan.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:13 pm

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:In the anime, however, there are filler scenes of SSJ3 Goku going toe to toe with Gotenks Buu as Gohan looks for the potara. While this does happen somewhat in the manga, it is extremely short.

All that happens in the manga is: Gotenks-Buu charges at Goku, Goku curses and powers up to SSJ3, then before Buu gets to Goku, the fusion breaks up and he depowers to Piccolo-Buu.

Later on, SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta take on Gohan Buu (the strongest villain in DragonBall Z by far). This actually lasts for quite a while, and I'm not sure if this is filler or not.

Totally filler.

But it's worth noting that even in the filler, Goku was losing worse than Gohan was to Gotenks-Buu, and Goku and Vegeta weren't able to budge Gohan-Buu at all.

TheNamek wrote:Even Supreme Kai said that Gohan was the strongest fighter at the tournament

Supreme Kai can't sense shit. He's not even able to tell that the Saiyans standing right next to him are stronger than Pocus.

Metrite · Post by **Metrite** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:58 pm

Senzu_Bean wrote:Does Daizenshuu really states Gohan is the strongest un-fused character at the end of Dragonball?

Considering the whole "un-fused" term is just garbage made up by certain fan boys because they had a lot of trouble arguing Gohan was the strongest with Vegetto in the picture, no. As far as everything else goes, Vegetto is another character of his own that appeared in the story and was stronger than the rest making him the strongest character. He's still the strongest "un-fused" character, too, seeing how fusion and potaras are two completely separate power ups despite similar effects. So that means the strongest "un-fused", "un-potara-ed" character in the Buu saga would still be one of the Buus. They might as well just say the strongest character without the help of magic was Goku. And the strongest "un-fused", "unpotar-ed", "un-saiyajin", "un-created", "un-god", "un-alien", "un-specially-trained-by-experts" character was Mr Satan.

And Goku's enthusiasm to leave his family to train Uub at the end of the series is a clear sign that he must have long since surpassed them and saw greater potential for a challenge in Uub.

smiley · Post by **smiley** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:23 pm

Here's a quote from an interview with Toriyama in Daizenshuu #2:

Q: Out of all your characters, which one is the most?
A: Cool: Goku
I think it's Goku. The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!

Of course, you can argue that he was on crack when he said that, and while Gohan was obviously the stronger one in the Buu saga, it is quite possible Goku could surpass him again by the end of the series. For me, Toriyama's quote is enough to conclude that he did.

Kanzenshuu

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