End of Z Yamcha

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:55 pm

Yamcha's Battle Power all comes down to what you consider worthy of #20.

He thought Yamcha was Goku at first, and considered him to be worthy of an energy extraction. Since they had factored in those huge increases for Goku, I could see Yamcha being quite strong at this point. I could see him beyond 18,000 after Kaio's training alone.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:36 pm

Dayspring wrote:That was Goku. Remember what the second wish on the Namek DB was, and how they got the idea for it.

No, I'm pretty sure Piccolo does too. Let me dig out my manga and I'll check.

And I don't see why people think humans have a limit: the whole series is about proving that there are no limits.

I don't think the humans have limits. I think the humans have to work far far harder to get past those limits, and I don't see anything by Yamcha to suggest he even surpasses Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:42 pm

Piccolo asks Gohan to summon him to namek so he can fight against Freeza. He also mentioned he gained "great power" in the underworld, or along those lines. He finishes by stating he'll defeat him.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:46 pm

Rocketman wrote: No, I'm pretty sure Piccolo does too. Let me dig out my manga and I'll check.

He does as far as I know. He even says "I don't have to hold such a silly promise" in his head.

Rocketman wrote:
I don't think the humans have limits. I think the humans have to work far far harder to get past those limits, and I don't see anything by Yamcha to suggest he even surpasses Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

I agree with the hard-work part. Even Kaio says that Goku would learn stuff at his place and obtain a power that he couldn't gain in 1000 years on Earth, and that was considering that Goku was a human, not a Saiya-jin.
So I guess that all Yamcha's training on Earth shouldn't be considered as that successful.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:12 pm

Godo wrote:Even Kaio says that Goku would learn stuff at his place and obtain a power that he couldn't gain in 1000 years on Earth, and that was considering that Goku was a human, not a Saiya-jin.
So I guess that all Yamcha's training on Earth shouldn't be considered as that successful.

Thanks for this. I forgot about that line. It's probably an exaggeration, but it goes with my point perfectly. Training on Earth is nothing compared to training with Kaio, unless you use the RoSaT or a gravity chamber or something. And even then, Kaio is a master teacher who continues to train Goku even after the Cell saga. Having him around is a big plus, even if you've surpassed him already.

Edit:

Cold Skin wrote:There is one thing I'm thinking about: Yamcha is willing to bring Goku back to safety when he has that heart disease, and doesn't he say something like he's the warrior who won't be of any use in this battle? Meaning Ten Shin Han and Krilin could be "of any use" and not him, proving he's the weakest of them with his own reply and choice?

I get your logic, but I'm not sure Yamcha was thinking logically at that point. His spirit was broken. Even after all that training, he was defeated in seconds and almost killed, again. I'd be depressed too if I had his list of accomplishments.

Ties with Goku, since Goku was hungry and he was distracted by Bulma.
Loses in the first round of the 21st tournament to Jackie Chun.
Loses in the first round of the 22nd tournament to Tenshinhan (and has his leg broken for no good reason).
Loses in the first round of the 23rd tournament to God.
Blown up be a Saibaiman. First to fall in the Saiyan fight, and didn't even fight a Saiyan. Ouch.
Impaled by #20. First to fall again.

The only fight I can remember him winning (apart from tournament prelims) is against Suke, and that was with help.

temujin · Post by **temujin** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:02 pm

"How strong are the humans?" Topics, including this one, tend to go:

OP: How strong d'ya think <insert someone that isn't Piccolo, Gohan or a Saiyan> was after battle powers became irrelevant?
Someone Else: Eh, bellow the Ginyu Force,cos Ginyu is the second strongest warrior in the universe and they are humans like mr.satan!
Someone Else: I dunno, a lot more than that makes more sense.
Someone else: What the hell! He 's not that weak! Freeza, at least!
Someone else: Prove it.
Someone else: The ginyu force are weak! He's at least as strong as first form Freeza, probably higher!
Someone Else: ... Prove it? I still think they are weaker than the Ginyu Force.Ginyu is an animal.
Someone: Well, based on some stuff before, during and after Kaio training, I say above 1 million.
Someone Else: ginyu ginyu ginyu ginyu and they are humans!

... Repeat for about five to eight pages. Crying or Very sad

And I personally think canon Yamcha would be stronger than suppressed final form Freeza.

Me too.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:36 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Yamcha's Battle Power all comes down to what you consider worthy of #20.

He thought Yamcha was Goku at first, and considered him to be worthy of an energy extraction. Since they had factored in those huge increases for Goku, I could see Yamcha being quite strong at this point. I could see him beyond 18,000 after Kaio's training alone.

The only huge increase they saw for Goku was the 416 to 8000 leap. in Goku's entire life before that, he went from ~100 to 416.

temujin wrote:Someone: Well, based on some stuff before, during and after Kaio training, I say above 1 million.

And I personally think canon Yamcha would be stronger than suppressed final form Freeza.
Me too.

I want to know why you think this. Honestly, no GRR or ARGH or whatever. I seriously want to know what stuff from the manga makes you think Yamcha got stronger than Freeza.

temujin · Post by **temujin** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:07 pm

I want to know why you think this. Honestly, no GRR or ARGH or whatever. I seriously want to know what stuff from the manga makes you think Yamcha got stronger than Freeza.

Freeza's supressed form which is different.
You have to find another guy to repeat the same things over and over again.
By the way, some years ago you also believed that Goku had 300.000 when
he started his fight with Freeza.What about now?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:20 pm

temujin wrote:You have to find another guy to repeat the same things over and over again.

So you don't have any proof and it's just you wanting your favorite character to not suck as bad as he actually does.

By the way, some years ago you also believed that Goku had 300.000 when
he started his fight with Freeza.What about now?

Since the alternative is "Goku gains more strength from stubbing his toe than Vegeta gets from having his guts torn out", yep. 300,000.

temujin · Post by **temujin** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:24 pm

So you don't have any proof and it's just you wanting your favorite character to not suck as bad as he actually does.

He isn't my favourite character.

Do you have proof????
Wow,are you Akira Toriyama disguised?Good to know mate.

Since the alternative is "Goku gains more strength from stubbing his toe than Vegeta gets from having his guts torn out", yep. 300,000.

You are good.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:47 pm

temujin wrote:"How strong are the humans?" Topics, including this one, tend to go:

OP: How strong d'ya think <insert someone that isn't Piccolo, Gohan or a Saiyan> was after battle powers became irrelevant?
Someone Else: Eh, bellow the Ginyu Force,cos Ginyu is the second strongest warrior in the universe and they are humans like mr.satan!
Someone Else: I dunno, a lot more than that makes more sense.
Someone else: What the hell! He 's not that weak! Freeza, at least!
Someone else: Prove it.
Someone else: The ginyu force are weak! He's at least as strong as first form Freeza, probably higher!
Someone Else: ... Prove it? I still think they are weaker than the Ginyu Force.Ginyu is an animal.
Someone: Well, based on some stuff before, during and after Kaio training, I say above 1 million.
Someone Else: ginyu ginyu ginyu ginyu and they are humans!

... Repeat for about five to eight pages. Crying or Very sad

Thanks for ignoring the posts with some actual thought behind them and summing everything up with this generalization, only to then state your own belief with no reason behind it. The irony is astounding.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:37 pm

Rocketman wrote:The only huge increase they saw for Goku was the 416 to 8000 leap. in Goku's entire life before that, he went from ~100 to 416.

I know. It's stated that they took all of that into consideration, and that they factored in the most extreme increases. Since Goku's biggest increase was from the Kaio training, they would've obviously factored that in and expect him to be far greater after namek.

And if Yamcha was really terribly weak, I see no reason why #19 would confuse him with Goku, along with #20 somehow believing this weakling is a good source of energy.

B · Post by B » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:47 pm

temujin wrote:
So you don't have any proof and it's just you wanting your favorite character to not suck as bad as he actually does.
He isn't my favourite character.

Do you have proof????
Wow,are you Akira Toriyama disguised?Good to know mate.

HA HA, OH WOW.
"I can't prove my statements, but you can't disprove them! YEAH, I'M AWESOME! WHERE'S DINNER, MOM?!"

Unless you have a legitimate reason for any sort of speculation, you should stay out of strength discussions such as these. They're already hard enough to talk about even with all the facts laid out, let alone made-up BS.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:02 pm

Of course Yamcha is stronger than Cell at the end of Z. Cell is nothing more than a spirit being purified at that point. So Yamcha does have greater fighting skill than a bodiless Cell.

TheNamek · Post by **TheNamek** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:21 pm

Cell still has his body in Hell.

Was it filler when we saw Pikkon fight in Hell and when all the baddies were watching the Buu fight from Hell?

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:24 pm

Major filler. Pikkon was never in the Manga.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:33 pm

TheNamek wrote:Cell still has his body in Hell.

Was it filler when we saw Paikuhan fight in Hell and when all the baddies were watching the Buu fight from Hell?

Cell has no body.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:04 pm

TheNamek wrote:Cell still has his body in Hell.

Was it filler when we saw Paikuhan fight in Hell and when all the baddies were watching the Buu fight from Hell?

Very filler. In the manga, villains don't keep their bodies in Hell. We never even see Hell, but we're told that only certain people like Goku are awarded their bodies in the afterlife, and that evil people go to Hell, have their memories erased, souls purified, and are reincarnated. That's what Piccolo tells Vegeta.

temujin · Post by **temujin** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:08 am

thanks for ignoring the posts with some actual thought behind them and summing everything up with this generalization, only to then state your own belief with no reason behind it. The irony is astounding

Thanks.
You repeat the same things over and over again,plus it is a shame that you showed zero problems when someone made the same generalization before.
Oh,he agrees with you.

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... a&start=80

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... c&start=20

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... ght=#27185

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... ght=#10741

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... ht=#174116

HA HA, OH WOW.
"I can't prove my statements, but you can't disprove them! YEAH, I'M AWESOME! WHERE'S DINNER, MOM?!"

Unless you have a legitimate reason for any sort of speculation, you should stay out of strength discussions such as these. They're already hard enough to talk about even with all the facts laid out, let alone made-up BS

HA HA, OH WOW.
"I can't prove my statements, but you can't disprove them! YEAH, I'M AWESOME! WHERE'S DINNER, MOM?!"

Unless you have a legitimate reason for any sort of speculation, you should stay out of strength discussions such as these. They're already hard enough to talk about even with all the facts laid out, let alone made-up BS.

The Forum Rules wrote:
We ask that our new members recognize that this is not your typical DragonBall message board. Many of the standard conversation-types and quirks used on other forums are either completely foreign to members here, or highly frowned upon. Please do not speak in "equations" for comparing character strengths, for example (SSJ2 Goku post-Senzu > Bootenks 2.5); this not only looks ridiculous, but does little to add to a genuine conversation. "Battle Power" or "Power Level" debates, while not expressly forbidden, also tend to leave little in the way of actual conversation.

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... ght=#27185

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:02 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote: And if Yamcha was really terribly weak, I see no reason why #19 would confuse him with Goku, along with #20 somehow believing this weakling is a good source of energy.

This is a very good point, and I wonder how people have missed this.
If Vegeta was stronger than Goku's 150,000,000 on Namek whilst fighting C19 and C20, why did Dr. Gero think that absorbing everyone's power but Vegeta's would give him the upper hand? Logic would tell that he could disregard Gohan's "un-angrified" power, and Krillin and Tenshinhan's low human powerlevels.
But no, he thought of absorbing the "weak" ones too.