Kibitokai (Kaioshin post-fuse) strength

[FistOfTheSun]

With Cell's strength felt all the way to New Namek, I find it somewhat underwhelming that the God of Gods had no knowledge of his existence.

That was filler, at least, so you can't blame Supreme Kai for it.

Shit your right. My bad. Regardless though, I still think that Kaioshins lack of knowledge of Cell, a being who could destroy a city with his own flatulance, inidcates to me that this "Holiest of Holies" knows next to zilch.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Freeza was a galactic threat. Cell was only exclusive to earth. Hell, Goku had to tell Kaio about him, so its not like those higher beings are always focused on the earth. If he knows about guys like Dabra, Yakon, and Freeza, he's not that misinformed.

And Kaioshin's main priority was finding Bobbidi in order to stop him from releasing Majin Boo--a significant threat to the universe. He didn't have anytime to worry about Cell.

[Godo]

Freeza was a galactic threat. Cell was only exclusive to earth. Hell, Goku had to tell Kaio about him, so its not like those higher beings are always focused on the earth. If he knows about guys like Dabra, Yakon, and Freeza, he's not that misinformed.

And Kaioshin's main priority was finding Bobbidi in order to stop him from releasing Majin Boo--a significant threat to the universe. He didn't have anytime to worry about Cell.

Whilst that's true, the databooks (or was it Jump?) say that through Kiri conversion, Goku's strength was as big as it was on Namek when he transformed into a SSJ (which is granted because of that he didn't have to use full power). Thus, Yakon was weaker than Freeza, and should be no threat to Kaioshin whatsoever, and his fear is not logical.
The whole thing points to him being misinformed.
Also, after seeing Gohan's SSJ2 power, he should be confident that they could take care of Dabra without any greater problems, but he was still afraid.

[Dayspring]

Freeza was a galactic threat. Cell was only exclusive to earth. Hell, Goku had to tell Kaio about him, so its not like those higher beings are always focused on the earth. If he knows about guys like Dabra, Yakon, and Freeza, he's not that misinformed.

And Kaioshin's main priority was finding Bobbidi in order to stop him from releasing Majin Boo--a significant threat to the universe. He didn't have anytime to worry about Cell.

Whilst that's true, the databooks (or was it Jump?) say that through Kiri conversion, Goku's strength was as big as it was on Namek when he transformed into a SSJ (which is granted because of that he didn't have to use full power). Thus, Yakon was weaker than Freeza, and should be no threat to Kaioshin whatsoever, and his fear is not logical.
The whole thing points to him being misinformed.
Also, after seeing Gohan's SSJ2 power, he should be confident that they could take care of Dabra without any greater problems, but he was still afraid.

When a non-Toriyama source (either V-Jump or fan-BS gave the conversion) gets us something that contradicts canon, I tend to ignore it. Plus Kiri isn't even fighting strength, IIRC, it's raw energy being emitted. So a major part of BP (possibly the most important), but not all.

[Godo]

Freeza was a galactic threat. Cell was only exclusive to earth. Hell, Goku had to tell Kaio about him, so its not like those higher beings are always focused on the earth. If he knows about guys like Dabra, Yakon, and Freeza, he's not that misinformed.

And Kaioshin's main priority was finding Bobbidi in order to stop him from releasing Majin Boo--a significant threat to the universe. He didn't have anytime to worry about Cell.

Whilst that's true, the databooks (or was it Jump?) say that through Kiri conversion, Goku's strength was as big as it was on Namek when he transformed into a SSJ (which is granted because of that he didn't have to use full power). Thus, Yakon was weaker than Freeza, and should be no threat to Kaioshin whatsoever, and his fear is not logical.
The whole thing points to him being misinformed.
Also, after seeing Gohan's SSJ2 power, he should be confident that they could take care of Dabra without any greater problems, but he was still afraid.

When a non-Toriyama source (either V-Jump or fan-BS gave the conversion) gets us something that contradicts canon, I tend to ignore it. Plus Kiri isn't even fighting strength, IIRC, it's raw energy being emitted. So a major part of BP (possibly the most important), but not all.

Even so, would you assume that Goku was even using 50% of his SSJ power whilst fighting Yakon? If it wasn't for Yakon's claws, Goku wouldn't even get a tear on his shirt to begin with, and if it wasn't for the darkness, he wouldn't even need to transform.
In any case, Yakon was definately not as dangerous as Kaioshin claimed him to be.

[Kaboom]

The fact of the matter is that Kaioshin is a wuss. He's so traumatized from his past experiences with Buu, that now he's afraid of anything related to the monster. He would be scared to death of THIS.

That said, yeah, it's obvious from the outcomes that PuiPui and Yakon were chumps. He wasn't so afraid of them as he was their connection to Babidi.

[Dayspring]

Whilst that's true, the databooks (or was it Jump?) say that through Kiri conversion, Goku's strength was as big as it was on Namek when he transformed into a SSJ (which is granted because of that he didn't have to use full power). Thus, Yakon was weaker than Freeza, and should be no threat to Kaioshin whatsoever, and his fear is not logical.
The whole thing points to him being misinformed.
Also, after seeing Gohan's SSJ2 power, he should be confident that they could take care of Dabra without any greater problems, but he was still afraid.

When a non-Toriyama source (either V-Jump or fan-BS gave the conversion) gets us something that contradicts canon, I tend to ignore it. Plus Kiri isn't even fighting strength, IIRC, it's raw energy being emitted. So a major part of BP (possibly the most important), but not all.

Even so, would you assume that Goku was even using 50% of his SSJ power whilst fighting Yakon? If it wasn't for Yakon's claws, Goku wouldn't even get a tear on his shirt to begin with, and if it wasn't for the darkness, he wouldn't even need to transform.
In any case, Yakon was definately not as dangerous as Kaioshin claimed him to be.

Yakon's not fighting seriously here because he doesn't know about Goku's ability to sense ki. Plus it's Goku. He, Gohan, and Vegeta have surpassed Cell, who in turn has surpassed the Cosmic order in regards to strength. It's not all that irrealistic to assume that an untransformed Goku could be stronger than Freeza by now. If Kaioshin was only as strong as #20 and Yakon as strong #17, then it would make sense for Kaioshin to want to team up rather than fight one on one, especially since he hasn't seen what they can do yet.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Whilst that's true, the databooks (or was it Jump?) say that through Kiri conversion, Goku's strength was as big as it was on Namek when he transformed into a SSJ (which is granted because of that he didn't have to use full power). Thus, Yakon was weaker than Freeza, and should be no threat to Kaioshin whatsoever, and his fear is not logical.
The whole thing points to him being misinformed.
Also, after seeing Gohan's SSJ2 power, he should be confident that they could take care of Dabra without any greater problems, but he was still afraid.

I don't recall that being stated in any source. Could be wrong, though. The Daiz states Kaioshin's power is far greater than Piccolo's, so we know he could level any version of Freeza with ease; or any Android.

And the fact that Goku jumps straight to level 2 to blow Yakon away shows the likelihood of his Super Saiyan level being around 50% or so isn't very likely. Even so, 50% of Goku's power was beyond Super Saiyan 3rd Grade Trunks/Super Saiyan 2nd Grade Vegeta 7 yrs before, and he's received additional training on top of that.

So, I don't see how this places Yakon less than Freeza. And Gohan also wanted to help Goku fight after he realized his light energy might continue to get stolen.

[Shoryuken]

The fact of the matter is that Kaioshin is a wuss. He's so traumatized from his past experiences with Buu, that now he's afraid of anything related to the monster. He would be scared to death of THIS.

That said, yeah, it's obvious from the outcomes that PuiPui and Yakon were chumps. He wasn't so afraid of them as he was their connection to Babidi.

Any DBZ character would piss their pants in fear against Arale.

[caejones]

Freeza was a galactic threat. Cell was only exclusive to earth. Hell, Goku had to tell Kaio about him, so its not like those higher beings are always focused on the earth. If he knows about guys like Dabra, Yakon, and Freeza, he's not that misinformed.

And Kaioshin's main priority was finding Bobbidi in order to stop him from releasing Majin Boo--a significant threat to the universe. He didn't have anytime to worry about Cell.

While that's true, what was stopping Spopovich and Yamu (had they been majin'd at the time) from showing up at the cell games™ and jumping Gohan and Cell™? That alone would have been enough to revive Buu; Kaioshin should have been paying attention.
(I agree that he wasn't, though. T.T )

[Godo]

When a non-Toriyama source (either V-Jump or fan-BS gave the conversion) gets us something that contradicts canon, I tend to ignore it. Plus Kiri isn't even fighting strength, IIRC, it's raw energy being emitted. So a major part of BP (possibly the most important), but not all.

Even so, would you assume that Goku was even using 50% of his SSJ power whilst fighting Yakon? If it wasn't for Yakon's claws, Goku wouldn't even get a tear on his shirt to begin with, and if it wasn't for the darkness, he wouldn't even need to transform.
In any case, Yakon was definately not as dangerous as Kaioshin claimed him to be.

Yakon's not fighting seriously here because he doesn't know about Goku's ability to sense ki. Plus it's Goku. He, Gohan, and Vegeta have surpassed Cell, who in turn has surpassed the Cosmic order in regards to strength. It's not all that irrealistic to assume that an untransformed Goku could be stronger than Freeza by now. If Kaioshin was only as strong as #20 and Yakon as strong #17, then it would make sense for Kaioshin to want to team up rather than fight one on one, especially since he hasn't seen what they can do yet.

Okay, so the difference here is that we think of the Saiya-jins bases as different. If I thought the same, I would actually agree with you. We cool, ait?

Whilst that's true, the databooks (or was it Jump?) say that through Kiri conversion, Goku's strength was as big as it was on Namek when he transformed into a SSJ (which is granted because of that he didn't have to use full power). Thus, Yakon was weaker than Freeza, and should be no threat to Kaioshin whatsoever, and his fear is not logical.
The whole thing points to him being misinformed.
Also, after seeing Gohan's SSJ2 power, he should be confident that they could take care of Dabra without any greater problems, but he was still afraid.

I don't recall that being stated in any source. Could be wrong, though. The Daiz states Kaioshin's power is far greater than Piccolo's, so we know he could level any version of Freeza with ease; or any Android.

And the fact that Goku jumps straight to level 2 to blow Yakon away shows the likelihood of his Super Saiyan level being around 50% or so isn't very likely. Even so, 50% of Goku's power was beyond Super Saiyan 3rd Grade Trunks/Super Saiyan 2nd Grade Vegeta 7 yrs before, and he's received additional training on top of that.

So, I don't see how this places Yakon less than Freeza. And Gohan also wanted to help Goku fight after he realized his light energy might continue to get stolen.

Well, I see it as that Yakon could only eat a certain amount of energy at a time. When he couldn't take care of more, it would keep accumulating in his body until he exploded, so Goku took care of that and gave him energy over his treshold, in an all-out burst. That doesn't have to mean that Yakon is very strong at all. Especially since Babidi claimed that Yakon had no chance of defeating Goku whatsoever. But I guess that it can be seen differently.

[goodguy777]

The only answer to this is the plot didn't require Kibito-Kaiohshin fusion to become competitive in fighting. That's all, thank you very much.

[Yamcha_krillin]

I don't recall that being stated in any source. Could be wrong, though. The Daiz states Kaioshin's power is far greater than Piccolo's,.

The Daiz is not canon.It has 1001 mistakes that contradicts the manga.It should not be taken serious by anyone.

[VegettoEX]

The Daiz is not canon.It has 1001 mistakes that contradicts the manga.It should not be taken serious by anyone.

Unbelievable.

Absolutely, simply, uneducatedly, disgustingly, jaw-droppingly, astonishingly unbelievable.

I think there was a recent comment like this where someone was able to tear into it and showcase exactly why it was one of the most ignorant statements ever made with regards to DragonBall fandom and its understanding of reference materials and factual information. Anyone care to dig that up? Was it Hujio...?

[MCDaveG]

Why I hate these discussions about: Is X stronger then Y? How much power have Y after returning from X? etc. and all of those questions not answered in the series, where lot of them actually don't make most of the people interested about them....
Who cares how much strong was Gohan after power-up against past-Boo after absorbing the strongest Kaioshin.....

Yamcha_krillin: You maybe don't know where you are and what series are you fan of, because what you said is totally irrelevant.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

The Daiz is not canon.It has 1001 mistakes that contradicts the manga.It should not be taken serious by anyone.

Yeah, except Piccolo states their powers are "dimensions apart" in the original. If anything, the Daiz complies with that statement accordingly. And the Daiz hold's more water than a random fan's assessment on the matter, anyway.

I also think the mention of mistakes are overdone. The Manga has mistakes, too. No one implied it was a perfect work of art--but it definitely is a great read, regardless.

[Godo]

The Daiz is not canon.It has 1001 mistakes that contradicts the manga.It should not be taken serious by anyone.

Yeah, except Piccolo states their powers are "dimensions apart" in the original. If anything, the Daiz complies with that statement accordingly. And the Daiz hold's more water than a random fan's assessment on the matter, anyway.

I also think the mention of mistakes are overdone. The Manga has mistakes, too. No one implied it was a perfect work of art--but it definitely is a great read, regardless.

Although there are some minor mistakes, like with the power levels, the main thing that makes people disregard it is it's facts, like if Gohan was a SSJ2 or not against Dabra.
Personally, I disregard the facts if they by any chance contradict the manga and my experiences when I read it.
But it's not in any way a book full of falseness and lies. I think I can say that around 98% of the facts are accurate, 1% questionable, and the remaining 1% debatable. From what I know of it anyways.

[Dayspring]

The Daiz is not canon.It has 1001 mistakes that contradicts the manga.It should not be taken serious by anyone.

Yeah, except Piccolo states their powers are "dimensions apart" in the original. If anything, the Daiz complies with that statement accordingly. And the Daiz hold's more water than a random fan's assessment on the matter, anyway.

I also think the mention of mistakes are overdone. The Manga has mistakes, too. No one implied it was a perfect work of art--but it definitely is a great read, regardless.

Although there are some minor mistakes, like with the power levels, the main thing that makes people disregard it is it's facts, like if Gohan was a SSJ2 or not against Dabra.
Personally, I disregard the facts if they by any chance contradict the manga and my experiences when I read it.
But it's not in any way a book full of falseness and lies. I think I can say that around 98% of the facts are accurate, 1% questionable, and the remaining 1% debatable. From what I know of it anyways.

People list the Gohan-SSJ2, Nappa's BP, and Radditz's BPs the most. Like you mentioned, those are debatable. I find it ironic, because nobody ever mentions the character bio pic clusterfuck of daizenshuu 7, which is undeniable proof of mistakes being.

[goodguy777]

It's useless to debate because most people here have their knowledge limited to reality in fictional world. Meaning the only clear answer here is the reality, the reality that the plot didn't need Fused-Kaioshin and Kibito to be competitive in fighting Majin-Boo.

[Dayspring]

It's useless to debate because most people here have their knowledge limited to reality in fictional world. Meaning the only clear answer here is the reality, the reality that the plot didn't need Fused-Kaioshin and Kibito to be competitive in fighting Majin-Boo.

Ugh! That's not even the point! And YOU are clearly the only one acting that way!