FUNimation Dragon Box Updates

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:15 pm

hard-core
/ˈhɑrdˈkɔr, -ˈkoʊr/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hahrd-kawr, -kohr] Show IPA
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–adjective
1. unswervingly committed; uncompromising; dedicated: a hard-core segregationist.
2. pruriently explicit; graphically depicted: hard-core pornography.
3. being so without apparent change or remedy; chronic: hard-core inflation; hard-core unemployment.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:18 pm

ShinRogafuken wrote:hard-core pornography

I like where this is going.

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:18 pm

Lol. Dragon Ball is so number two.

SSVegetto · Post by **SSVegetto** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:21 pm

B wrote:That makes no sense. "So it's not like their is actually a real Goku in real life that dubs the voice for Goku to make it so much better." What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying Italian wouldn't enjyo hearing Jerry Seinfeld or Jason Alexander/George Costanza deliver their jokes in the show their way? If you need an animated show just to understand my argument, let's go with... Futurama. Again, Italian B wants to hear Billy West voice Philip J. Fry with Italian subs. NOT because I'm some snob who thinks no Italian actor could possibly do with the character what West does, but because THAT was the show's original presentation.

Yes, but you picked the worst example ever. It's impossible for anyone to redub his voice and expect it to be better. Seinfeld is actually a real life person, a real life actor. Those TV shows should stay in their original language only.

But for Anime it's a totally different story. These are cartoons that any good experience dub actor in the world can be chosen to dub. But nobody can replace Jerry Seinfeld as him playing as himself. And Yes, the Futurama example makes more sense.

B wrote:Really? You don't see two types of fans? Seriously? Have you looked?

Yes, but I just see it as some people that want to watch it in their own language, so they don't have to read subtitles. And it's not their fault that Funimation choose to change the dialogue or script dramatically. So I hate it when their labeled a dubbie or not a true fan, or something like that. I just hate the labeling. I just see it as people with a preference. I just think they shouldn't be labeled. And people should stop saying this Dragonbox release is for this type of person only.

Just because the Dragon box came from Japan doesn't mean its only for certain type of people. In fact, I go by countries, since it is a North America release, so it is meant for people that know English. Hence, it having English subtitles, and English audio. But I'm sure anyone in the world can buy it or import it or whatever.

And I think it's quite snobbish to say it should only have Japanese audio. When I bet the person that said that doesn't even know the language. You wouldn't even get the English subtitles if it wasn't released in North America. So where is the respect?

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:50 pm

I'm guessing "hardcore" means fans of the actual show, not the version of the show that isn't even really the show, based on the script.

Fans of the dub are fans of a show with the same title, but it isn't really the same show.

Lazyking · Post by **Lazyking** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:54 pm

And whose fault is that? Not ours; it's FUNi's fault.

LeprikanGT · Post by **LeprikanGT** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:59 pm

I believe it IS the same show, just different dialogue, because if you mute it, it's the same except for what version you watch.

Although without Funimation we may not have gotten all of the DBZ 'coverage' that we have now.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:01 pm

I'm wondering if enough dub fans objected heavily to the lack of an English music track if they would add one the future? Then again I have to ponder how many dub fans are actually going to be interested in this product dub music or no.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:04 pm

LeprikanGT wrote:I believe it IS the same show, just different dialogue, because if you mute it, it's the same except for what version you watch.

Although without Funimation we may not have gotten all of the DBZ 'coverage' that we have now.

It can't be the same show if the dialogue differs so wildly at times.

Shin-chan is hardly Crayon Shin-chan. (Well, this is a more extreme example than DBZ.)

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:22 pm

SSVegetto wrote:Just because the Dragon box came from Japan doesn't mean its only for certain type of people.

Tell that to FUNimation. THEY are the ones saying this release is for the fans of the Japanese version. Why is that so hard to understand? And you don't seem to understand WHY it doesn't NEED to have an English track. I'm not saying I don't want one; it's just not needed by the fans of the Japanese version. They don't need it. I'm glad it's there, but Funimation's target audience for the release doesn't want it (in their eyes anyways).

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:22 pm

SSVegetto wrote:Yes, but I just see it as some people that want to watch it in their own language, so they don't have to read subtitles. And it's not their fault that Funimation choose to change the dialogue or script dramatically. So I hate it when their labeled a dubbie or not a true fan, or something like that. I just hate the labeling. I just see it as people with a preference. I just think they shouldn't be labeled. And people should stop saying this Dragonbox release is for this type of person only.

This thread isn't about the language or script changes. The dub vocal track will be present, with the same script and performances as present on the orange bricks. Y'know, I defended you a few pages back when you were threatened with a banning. I do have to say, it does look here like you're playing the victim. The comment above is off topic and kind of whiny.

Just because the Dragon box came from Japan doesn't mean its only for certain type of people. In fact, I go by countries, since it is a North America release, so it is meant for people that know English. Hence, it having English subtitles, and English audio. But I'm sure anyone in the world can buy it or import it or whatever.

And I think it's quite snobbish to say it should only have Japanese audio. When I bet the person that said that doesn't even know the language. You wouldn't even get the English subtitles if it wasn't released in North America. So where is the respect?

What other anime has done this? Seriously, aside from their arguably failed attempt with the orange bricks, what other precedent is there? That's an honest and open challenge. I'd love to compare to another release. I just can't think of anything. Anime these days tend to keep their original music. The ones that don't? Well they don't really get dual language releases in the first place unless another company picks up the license. Anime from the DBZ era and earlier that did get the whole dumbed down script and new audio thing tend to come out either as dual sided releases (which is damage prone) or in two seperate releases. I personally think dub fans are lucky these sets even HAVE the dub. They could have gone the road of Sailor Moon or Tekkaman Blade and been sub-only to stand beside the previous dub-inclusive releases.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:47 pm

If you include the Kikuchi score on the DBZ dub, it doesn't suddenly make it a more accurate dub. You get some stitched together Frankenstein product nobody will be satisfied with.

Then again, when you consider it, there's a bit of an inconsistency problem introduced. The redub of the first two seasons have the Kikuchi score. If you go from that to the episodes with the Faulconer score, it would be a little jarring, I think.

I have to be honest, though, personally, I've stopped caring. Until they redub DBZ, I have no interest in the dub. I may switch back and forth when I get my copy just to rib the dub on my own and check on the quality of the redub, but there really isn't any incentive for me to prefer one dub over the other, since they're both not really DBZ.

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:52 pm

I agree with the fact that FUNi's DBZ isn't the real DBZ. If I'm remembering correctly, FUNimation said so themselves that their dub of DBZ is a "re-versioning" or something.

FUNi could use Nathan's score for the episodes without Faulconer, but... that doesn't really solve the problem, does it?

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:25 pm

penguintruth wrote:I'm guessing "hardcore" means fans of the actual show, not the version of the show that isn't even really the show, based on the script.

Fans of the dub are fans of a show with the same title, but it isn't really the same show.

This is exactly the kind of crap that I was getting mad at B. This whole "Hardcore" nonsense needs to stop, seriously.

I agree with the fact that FUNi's DBZ isn't the real DBZ. If I'm remembering correctly, FUNimation said so themselves that their dub of DBZ is a "re-versioning" or something.

I'd like to see this quote from Funimation.

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:39 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:
I agree with the fact that FUNi's DBZ isn't the real DBZ. If I'm remembering correctly, FUNimation said so themselves that their dub of DBZ is a "re-versioning" or something.
I'd like to see this quote from Funimation.

I don't know where I heard it. Sorry. T_T Maybe someone else does. Anyone?

B · Post by B » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:01 pm

Well, FUNimation's credits list every show they've ever done as "Reversioned by FUNimaation Entertainment." I think.

I DO know for a fact, however, DBZ and Shin-chan DO have that credit, which of course is obvious why for both titles. I'd have to check for another show more close to the script.

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:15 pm

Not to be rude, but isn't this sort of back-and-forth exactly what the thread was not supposed to morph into? I'm late to the party, snooping through all fifteen pages of "updates" to see what I've missed and seeing nothing even resembling news for what could be the last ten of those fifteen.

~Da Lemmy

ShinRogafuken · Post by **ShinRogafuken** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:50 pm

Some comments on the Dragon Box from YouTube, if you're interested:

"I just dont like people automatically saying if i dont like the japanese I'm not a hardcore fan. they should just call it not a japanese dbz fan."

"I know it's your opinion but even to say u actually prefer the dub track gone hurts a lot of the falconer fans. it really devastates us. you couldn't possibly know how that feels. that jap music is totally different from the american one and for you to like both is surprising. so your saying PREFERRING the Falconer soundtrack makes u casual and not hardcore? say whatever u want Xander but this is no perfect dvd. this is not the definitive collection anymore. a "definitive" collections contains everything released before of that series including something as important as another dub track"

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:10 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote:
SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:I'd like to see this quote from Funimation.
I don't know where I heard it. Sorry. T_T Maybe someone else does. Anyone?

I *think* it was Sagas related, but Chris Sabat said something about their "version" of the show, in regards to the different script and all the added jokes and what not. I don't have a reference on hand, so I could be fudging that a little...

This whole "Hardcore" nonsense needs to stop, seriously.

I agree, because it implies a certain judgemental mentality. I will just offer though that DBZ is one of the few shows where I've personally noticed such integrated and bickering fanbases. As a Tekkaman Blade fan, I don't often find myself arguing with Teknoman fans over the background music or script changes. It seems like if people prefer the dub due to nostalgia or actor preference that is fine, so long as they in turn defer some level of respect to the original (or, really, acknowledge them as separate).

penguintruth wrote:If you include the Kikuchi score on the DBZ dub, it doesn't suddenly make it a more accurate dub. You get some stitched together Frankenstein product nobody will be satisfied with.

I don't understand your point. The Kikuchi score wouldn't make up for the script, no. But that doesn't mean that having the original music makes it a stitch job. If anything, dub fans of Dragon Ball will find Z to be more consistent.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:26 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:The problem is that the dub was finished 6 years ago. They just can't change it because they've already finished it. Maybe if they decided to do this while they were still dubbing it, but now, it'd just be strange.

See, this is what I don't get. If your car got ran into and you could still technically drive in it, but not afford to fix or replace it for six years, I garantee you that when that sixth year came up and you finally had the opportunity to fix or replace it this wouldn't be how you think. You wouldn't stick with the clunker because the damage is done, you'd get yourself a nice new car. It might even be strange to drive a new car after six years, but that wouldn't factor into you deciding to continue to ride in a banged up vehichle.

You may well be very upset that you can't drive the model of the car you love, but you're still not going to go on about how you can't fix it.

I'm trying my absolute best to be sympathetic to your feelings which are legitimate, but this argument is terrible.

As an aside, people, PLEASE stop with the hardcore = sub fans thing. That does NOTHING AT ALL except to divide the fanbase. Not many dub fans are hardcore, but as I said earlier, the mere fact that the dub fans we're talking to here are not only chatting away at a DBZ messageboard, but at the Daizenshuu EX messageboard should be proof enough that they're dedicated fans. Really, that's all that counts. Trying to label someone as a "lesser fan" does nothing but start flame wars, get threads locked, and make the fanbase less fun to be in.

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP DOING THAT!

Kanzenshuu

FUNimation Dragon Box Updates

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