Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

[Innagadadavida]

I've been wondering for a while, what makes the english dub a DIFFERENT show? Sure, some things are changed, but like I said, I think most of them make sense, and they don't change the story at all.

What specific parts were changed that change the show completely?

In Dragon Ball Z... General Tao, Red Ribbon Mastermind Gero, ext. Oh yeah and Piccolo took absolutely no time adjusting to the life of a good guy. He just was from the beginning. Those are a few glaringly obvious examples.

The dub didn't change anything completely. It just ignored a few things, added a few things, and changed a few things. Anybody who says the dub is a different show is just talking out of their hind-quarters. It's the same story with a lot of unnecessary changes.

[NeptuneKai]

The show wasn't changed completely. Anybody who says the dub is a different show is just talking out of their butts. It's the same story with a lot of unnecessary changes.

Those unnecessary changes all add up in the end though. When all is said and done the story has been changed in many ways thus it's a different show y'get what I'm saying?

[isucamper]

It has more to do with changes in the characters' motivations. When care is not taken in the translation (or when silent scenes are filled in with endless, made up dialogue), a character's motivation changes, and thus, the character itself changes.

For instance, Funimation's Goku is motivated very differently from the Japanese version. He launches into these epic speeches about heroism and ridding the world of evil. Compare it to what he's saying in Japanese and you can see Funimation is really only slightly tweaking the meaning of things, but in doing so they've completely altered the character's motivations. The original Goku doesn't care so much about saving the world or fighting evil. He cares about being challenged by fighting strong opponents and making sure his closest friends are safe. There's a tinge of selfishness in the Japanese Goku that brings some really masterfully handled depth to the character. This subtlety is completely lost in the Funimation dub. The character is more hollow and predictable. Your average American hero who always does what he must to triumph over evil.

[saiyangerl]

As a "dubbie" I can see in a way where people that prefer the original are coming from. For example I also listen to Japanese pop music, one of my favorite artists being Utada Hikaru. She did the Kingdom Hearts song and the English version of that song is done in a remix style from the Japanese song called Hikari. Now the remix that they did in English is not a translation of the Japanese song at all it's all new words and a completely different song just going to the same tune. Same thing happened with one of her singles First Love when they did an English version. They changed the lyrics completely and did not translate them. In that sense I prefer the originals. However, in my own opinion I do not think the dub was done to that extreme. As people have said it was a bunch of minor changes and those things don't really bug me. I am aware of the differences and have even watched and compared scenes in the original and the dub and I am fine with that. I may actually get around to watching it completely in its original form whenever I find the time and get my hands on that version.

[Ultimate_DB_Fan]

It has more to do with changes in the characters' motivations. When care is not taken in the translation (or when silent scenes are filled in with endless, made up dialogue), a character's motivation changes, and thus, the character itself changes.

For instance, Funimation's Goku is motivated very differently from the Japanese version. He launches into these epic speeches about heroism and ridding the world of evil. Compare it to what he's saying in Japanese and you can see Funimation is really only slightly tweaking the meaning of things, but in doing so they've completely altered the character's motivations. The original Goku doesn't care so much about saving the world or fighting evil. He cares about being challenged by fighting strong opponents and making sure his closest friends are safe. There's a tinge of selfishness in the Japanese Goku that brings some really masterfully handled depth to the character. This subtlety is completely lost in the Funimation dub. The character is more hollow and predictable. Your average American hero who always does what he must to triumph over evil.

I completely understand what you're saying, but some dub fans like the Funi Goku for those reasons you mentioned. Said fans don't mind the speeches that he makes, because he inevitably is fighting evil for the good and well being of earth.
Another thing is that watching the dub only isn't so bad when all the action is uncut.

[Big Momma]

As a "dubbie" I can see in a way where people that prefer the original are coming from. For example I also listen to Japanese pop music, one of my favorite artists being Utada Hikaru. She did the Kingdom Hearts song and the English version of that song is done in a remix style from the Japanese song called Hikari. Now the remix that they did in English is not a translation of the Japanese song at all it's all new words and a completely different song just going to the same tune. Same thing happened with one of her singles First Love when they did an English version. They changed the lyrics completely and did not translate them. In that sense I prefer the originals. However, in my own opinion I do not think the dub was done to that extreme. As people have said it was a bunch of minor changes and those things don't really bug me. I am aware of the differences and have even watched and compared scenes in the original and the dub and I am fine with that. I may actually get around to watching it completely in its original form whenever I find the time and get my hands on that version.

Although let's be fair....


...the English versions of both "Hikari" and "First Love" are superb.

[Commander_Red]

I can't think of any examples, but many things always just made a lot more sense watching the original after the dub. You get a better sense of character personality too, which I'm sure would be even greater if I could understand Japanese without subs.

[laserkid]

For instance, Funimation's Goku is motivated very differently from the Japanese version. He launches into these epic speeches about heroism and ridding the world of evil. Compare it to what he's saying in Japanese and you can see Funimation is really only slightly tweaking the meaning of things, but in doing so they've completely altered the character's motivations. The original Goku doesn't care so much about saving the world or fighting evil. He cares about being challenged by fighting strong opponents and making sure his closest friends are safe. There's a tinge of selfishness in the Japanese Goku that brings some really masterfully handled depth to the character. This subtlety is completely lost in the Funimation dub. The character is more hollow and predictable. Your average American hero who always does what he must to triumph over evil.

While I do vastly preffer the Japanese Original to the English Dub of DBZ, and overall I get what you're saying, Goku isn't COMPLETELY against being heroic in the original show either. He's not fighting Vegeta, Freeza, or Cell just to challenge someone strong. That does EXCITE him, but in all three cases it is to protect those around him for whom he cares about and to save the world. Really if Goku ONLY cared about fighting strong enemies, he would have accepted Raditz's proposal.

I know the dub tuned out Goku's Saiyajin fighting love some, but the heroic knight thing isn't without basis.

[Metalwario64]

Really if Goku ONLY cared about fighting strong enemies, he would have accepted Raditz's proposal.

That's why it severely irks me when people jump on the "Hate Goku Bandwagon" and say things like "OMG Hez da most selfish person in the whole world and he is fucking evil and cruel!!! He only cares about himself and his fighting and no-one else!!!"

People also act as though the dub has him going out and seeking crimes to solve, ala Superman, and as though he let Vegeta and Frieza live because it would "be a crime to kill them"...

Even in the dub Vegeta stated in his "you're better than me" speech (I'm paraphrasing) that "Kakarrot fights for the love of it, and to push himself to his limits, but he's so kind and gentle that he wouldn't even hurt a fly."

I'd say that accurately describes "dub Goku."

[russ869]

While I do vastly preffer the Japanese Original to the English Dub of DBZ, and overall I get what you're saying, Goku isn't COMPLETELY against being heroic in the original show either. He's not fighting Vegeta, Freeza, or Cell just to challenge someone strong. That does EXCITE him, but in all three cases it is to protect those around him for whom he cares about and to save the world. Really if Goku ONLY cared about fighting strong enemies, he would have accepted Raditz's proposal.

Right. Gokuu wants to protect the Earth, because it's the place where he grew up, it's where his friends and family live, and it's the place he calls home. There's nothing more natural than that. But, like Vegeta he does kind of throw common sense to the wind for the chance of a good fight.

[Rocketman]

Toei was adapting the story to a completely different medium. You can't really compare it to Fuimation simply trying to dub it to another language.

Yes I can, because Toei did a far, far, FAR worse job than Funi did.

As with you Illiad comparison, this doesn't really make any sense in the context of what we're talking about.

Give Funi's dub three thousand years and we'll see.

[penguintruth]

Really if Goku ONLY cared about fighting strong enemies, he would have accepted Raditz's proposal.

That's why it severely irks me when people jump on the "Hate Goku Bandwagon" and say things like "OMG Hez da most selfish person in the whole world and he is fucking evil and cruel!!! He only cares about himself and his fighting and no-one else!!!"

I don't think anyone's said that.

The reason why I like him is because he's not some white knight, that he's a manchild motivated largely by his own desires, and can be rather selfish, but he does have a good heart and wishes for the best for everyone.

I sort of like that he can be selfish, too, that he's not perfect. That the people around him sort of have to roll their eyes and say, "Oh, that Goku."

Clearly, if the world needs saving, he'll do it, but his first priority has always been to protect his friends and his interests. Sometimes to protect his interests at somewhat a cost to his friends, but he doesn't intend them to come to harm, it just ends up that way at times because he's really very childish.

He's not cruel, he's just wired differently than everyone else. He's not quite completely battle-hungry like Vegeta, but he's not some avenger of justice, either. He's an incidental superhero at best.

Rocketman, I'd be interested in knowing how Toei did worse than Funimation in adapting, other than add filler that we mostly ignore, anyway. I read the manga, too, and other than that, it did a fine job, and what's more, it added motion and music to all the things in the manga.

[Kendamu]

I've been wondering for a while, what makes the english dub a DIFFERENT show? Sure, some things are changed, but like I said, I think most of them make sense, and they don't change the story at all.

What specific parts were changed that change the show completely?

In Dragon Ball Z... General Tao, Red Ribbon Mastermind Gero, ext. Oh yeah and Piccolo took absolutely no time adjusting to the life of a good guy. He just was from the beginning. Those are a few glaringly obvious examples.

The dub didn't change anything completely. It just ignored a few things, added a few things, and changed a few things. Anybody who says the dub is a different show is just talking out of their hind-quarters. It's the same story with a lot of unnecessary changes.

What makes it a "different show" for me has more to do with the music and how it sets the mood. The dub made the show seems a lot more hardcore in that modern "X-TREME ACTION!!!!!!!!!!" sense while the Japanese music made it feel more adventurous at times while feeling more like an oldschool Kung Fu movie at other times.

[Rocketman]

Rocketman, I'd be interested in knowing how Toei did worse than Funimation in adapting, other than add filler that we mostly ignore, anyway. I read the manga, too, and other than that, it did a fine job, and what's more, it added motion and music to all the things in the manga.

Why is it okay for sub fans to ignore all the contradictions that filler creates, but dub fans must own up to "General Tao"?

[Super Sonic]

Rocketman, I'd be interested in knowing how Toei did worse than Funimation in adapting, other than add filler that we mostly ignore, anyway. I read the manga, too, and other than that, it did a fine job, and what's more, it added motion and music to all the things in the manga.

Why is it okay for sub fans to ignore all the contradictions that filler creates, but dub fans must own up to "General Tao"?

Wasn't his name Mercenary Tao?

[JulieYBM]

Rocketman, I'd be interested in knowing how Toei did worse than Funimation in adapting, other than add filler that we mostly ignore, anyway. I read the manga, too, and other than that, it did a fine job, and what's more, it added motion and music to all the things in the manga.

Why is it okay for sub fans to ignore all the contradictions that filler creates, but dub fans must own up to "General Tao"?

Well, to be fair, 'sub fans' are 'defending' the original adaptation by Toei, not so much the Toriyama original.

[Rocketman]

Well, to be fair, 'sub fans' are 'defending' the original adaptation by Toei, not so much the Toriyama original.

So they're defending Piccolo destroying Goku's ship, Fake Namek, Ginyu-Bulma, Five Minutes, Vegeta beating the shit out of Gohan and flying away but then appearing back under the tree and no-one mentioning it again, etc. etc....while complaining about General Tao and Mastermind Gero.

[Innagadadavida]

Wasn't his name Mercenary Tao?

He was called Mercenary Tao in Dragon Ball, which was dubbed after Dragon Ball Z. In Dragon Ball Z, there was a flashback episode where Roshi explained the origins of the Red Ribbon Army. Only in the dub, the entire story was just wrong. Roshi said Gero was the mastermind of the Red Ribbon Army and that Tao was a general. He also said that Goku destroyed the army because of his sense of justice, rather than the real reason.. which was just that they were in his way .

Anyway, Tao is one of my favorite villains and I really hate that part of the dub. It fills me with fiery rage.

So they're defending Piccolo destroying Goku's ship, Fake Namek, Ginyu-Bulma, Five Minutes, Vegeta beating the shit out of Gohan and flying away but then appearing back under the tree and no-one mentioning it again, etc. etc....while complaining about General Tao and Mastermind Gero.

Maybe the point is that the dub has all those plotholes and more. And it is a situation that could have been easily avoided if FUNimation had treated the show with respect from the beginning.

[Rocketman]

Maybe the point is that the dub has all those plotholes and more. And it is a situation that could have been easily avoided if FUNimation had treated the show with respect from the beginning.

But it only has those plotholes because Toei fucked up Dragonball in the first place.

[JulieYBM]

So they're defending Piccolo destroying Goku's ship, Fake Namek, Ginyu-Bulma, Five Minutes, Vegeta beating the shit out of Gohan and flying away but then appearing back under the tree and no-one mentioning it again, etc. etc....while complaining about General Tao and Mastermind Gero.

Maybe the point is that the dub has all those plotholes and more. And it is a situation that could have been easily avoided if FUNimation had treated the show with respect from the beginning.

Pretty much, that's it. The DBZ anime isn't perfcect, but it's still a classic that deserves a respectful 'English adaptation' if it's going to get an English adaptation at all.