Could Non-SSJ Goku have defeated #19...

mystic trunks · Post by **mystic trunks** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:47 pm

.. If he didn't have the heart virus? His power level after the Vegata fight was about 40,000 tops. During his fight with Freeza, he was well into the millions. Gero didn't expect power like that.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:04 pm

No way. He wouldn't stand a chance.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:09 pm

mystic trunks wrote:.. If he didn't have the heart virus? His power level after the Vegata fight was about 40,000 tops. During his fight with Freeza, he was well into the millions. Gero didn't expect power like that.

No. He was about as powerful as SSJ Vegeta without the virus and Vegeta had to go SSJ to beat 19. He even had to eat a senzu before facing 20.

Yamcha_krillin · Post by **Yamcha_krillin** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:28 pm

A full power punch from base Goku couldn't even budge Android 20 and #20 was even caught off guard by that punch.

No problem.

Kroni_Hunter · Post by **Kroni_Hunter** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:32 pm

I'm guessing this is coming up because Piccolo was able to defeat Android 20 relatively easily.
The short answer: No, Goku would lose. The evidence is shown with Vegeta needing a sensu after defeating 19.
Piccolo was much more powerful at this point than he was on Namek. You have to remember that he trained against Goku for those whole three years. His power level is going to skyrocket with a SSJ sparing partner. His strength was most likely somewhere in between Base Goku and SSJ Goku, which is why he was able to defeat 20.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:33 pm

Goku's too weak in base to do anything.

Vegeta somehow makes it seem possible when he calls Goku "a fool" for transforming to battle #19. He couldn't sense their power, though, so I overlooked that part.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:33 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Goku's too weak in base to do anything.

Vegeta somehow makes it seem possible when he calls Goku "a fool" for transforming to battle #19. He couldn't sense their power, though, so I overlooked that part.

The full line is something like, "You noticed the abnormality in your body, but you transformed anyway. You fool. You only accelerated your condition."

verto · Post by **verto** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:06 pm

The only reason Vegeta needed a bean was because he wanted to show off and he let 19 take a crap load of energy before killing him.

mystic trunks · Post by **mystic trunks** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:54 pm

verto wrote:The only reason Vegeta needed a bean was because he wanted to show off and he let 19 take a crap load of energy before killing him.

This.
He even said that the'android managed to steal quite a bit of energy before he stopped him'.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:39 am

Goku would've had more chance getting a job than beating #19 in his base form. So, no, Goku would be slaughtered. I mean, he wouldn't just transform for nothing.

mystic trunks · Post by **mystic trunks** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:42 pm

What about with Kaioken?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:23 pm

mystic trunks wrote:What about with Kaioken?

I say no. Kaioken would be like doing more damage to himself than switching over to SSJ did. Plus it only works in bursts, so #19 would have the edge.

Ultimate_DB_Fan · Post by **Ultimate_DB_Fan** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:04 am

Base-Goku vs. No.19?
19 wins against Son even he didn't have the heart virus.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:52 am

Kroni_Hunter wrote:Piccolo was much more powerful at this point than he was on Namek. You have to remember that he trained against Goku for those whole three years. His power level is going to skyrocket with a SSJ sparing partner.

Exactly how much use could Piccolo get out of fighting someone over a hundred fifty times stronger than he was? He's not a Saiyan, where getting beat to a pulp makes him stronger.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:57 am

Rocketman wrote:
Kroni_Hunter wrote:Piccolo was much more powerful at this point than he was on Namek. You have to remember that he trained against Goku for those whole three years. His power level is going to skyrocket with a SSJ sparing partner.
Exactly how much use could Piccolo get out of fighting someone over a hundred fifty times stronger than he was? He's not a Saiyan, where getting beat to a pulp makes him stronger.

Obviously, he did get a bit use out of it, since some people acually were awed because of his progress in his strength.
I doubt that he could defeat #19, but he gave a huge can of whopass to Dr. Gero at least.

Simply, the plot shows that Piccolo did get a lot out of his training with Goku.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:09 pm

Rocketman wrote:Exactly how much use could Piccolo get out of fighting someone over a hundred fifty times stronger than he was? He's not a Saiyan, where getting beat to a pulp makes him stronger.

Piccolo went from 329 to 2,000+ training on his own while tryin to teach a kid how to fight.

Throw in a stronger Piccolo sparring with Goku and his power will increase much more; especially in 3 yrs. You also have Krillin's statement, which seems to be another indication that Piccolo is fighting with Super Saiyan like power.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:45 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:You also have Krillin's statement, which seems to be another indication that Piccolo is fighting with Super Saiyan like power.

Krillin's statement only indicates that Piccolo was strong for someone who was not a Super Saiyan.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:23 pm

But it doesn't change the fact that Piccolo beats the crap outta #20, who's stated to be above #19--and Goku didn't do much to him as a Super Saiyan before he lost a large amount of energy.

Piccolo is much stronger than you think.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:39 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:You also have Krillin's statement, which seems to be another indication that Piccolo is fighting with Super Saiyan like power.
Krillin's statement only indicates that Piccolo was strong for someone who was not a Super Saiyan.

So Dr. Gero was wrong in thinking that absorbing Piccolo and the humans' energies was going to help him against a Super Saiyan?
I mean, if he wasn't that strong, it would be a futile attempt, no?

EDIT: Going by your theories by the human fighters' powers (including Gohan's) they would barely add to even 5,000,000, and then Piccolo's huge, but a lot weaker than a Super Saiyan, power would give him the edge?
You would be estimating that Dr. Gero is much stronger than he seems to be.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:01 pm

Godo wrote:So Dr. Gero was wrong in thinking that absorbing Piccolo and the humans' energies was going to help him against a Super Saiyan?
I mean, if he wasn't that strong, it would be a futile attempt, no?

Gero thought #19 could defeat Goku by himself.

Kanzenshuu

Could Non-SSJ Goku have defeated #19...

Could Non-SSJ Goku have defeated #19...

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