Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

B · Post by B » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:13 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
B wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Now something like 4Kids' One Piece dub is terrible as a standalone show
No, it's not.
Umm, can you give your reasons why you think otherwise? I knew that the One Piece dub was terrible as soon as I heard the theme song. It was just bad, not because it had no business being used for One Piece, but because it was just horribly cheesy. That's just my opinion.

That theme song is wonderfully cheesy(And, honestly, better than the very first Japanese theme). Hell, knowing that it was a dub going in, but never watching the original before, just makes everything about it hilarious. It was like an "official" abridged series. And that narrator was top notch. I understand shit was altered and moved around, and how that may piss fans off, but goddamnit, As a standalone show, with no sort of "original version" to reference, it's endless fun.

Which, by the way, just really can't be said about FUNi!DBZ, in my opinion. It's just bad all-around. In my opinion. Times two.

Ultimate_DB_Fan · Post by **Ultimate_DB_Fan** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:18 pm

While FUNi's dub of DBZ may be "bad times two..." some here tend to forget of the fact that stuff wasn't necessarily altered to the point of obscurity. The things that needed to be translated into English was, in fact, done by FUNimation. The people who needed to be brought back to life, the characters who were evil, why things were being done, etc., were all carried over. The only exceptions being character tone and little things here and there, such as Piccolo declaring himself a demon-clansmen were removed.
Dudes up in here need to respect the fact that some fans just straight up like the dub. I'm in the middle and could basically be considered neutral, but mostly prefers watching this legendary series subbed.
Whoever got a problem with my post's tone, you're more than welcome to explain why you disagree.

m121akuma · Post by **m121akuma** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:43 am

B wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:
B wrote: No, it's not.
Umm, can you give your reasons why you think otherwise? I knew that the One Piece dub was terrible as soon as I heard the theme song. It was just bad, not because it had no business being used for One Piece, but because it was just horribly cheesy. That's just my opinion.
That theme song is wonderfully cheesy(And, honestly, better than the very first Japanese theme). Hell, knowing that it was a dub going in, but never watching the original before, just makes everything about it hilarious. It was like an "official" abridged series. And that narrator was top notch. I understand shit was altered and moved around, and how that may piss fans off, but goddamnit, As a standalone show, with no sort of "original version" to reference, it's endless fun.

Which, by the way, just really can't be said about FUNi!DBZ, in my opinion. It's just bad all-around. In my opinion. Times two.

Uhh...what? Did you just say that that retarded-as-hell rap song is better than "We Are"? One of the best anime openings in recent memory? Seriously?

I'd rather watch the Funi Dub of DBZ than 4Kids OP any day.
After saying that, I will now hypocritically attack the elitism permeating this thread. WHEEE GO ME!

Before I start, let me state that I am a born again subbie. I'd seen a few episodes and movies subbed here and there in middle school, but for the most part, I just watched the dub of the series. It wasn't until college that I started watching the Japanese version of the series, and I haven't looked back. But if people want to watch the dub, hey, more power to them. There are FAR worse dubs out there (I'm sorry, but to the person who made the Ronin Warriors comment, rewatch some of both versions a bit. Ronin Warriors is a rather horrible and inaccurate dub), and I agree with Mike in his assessment that as long as they are watching Dragonball, I'm okay with whatever format they choose. And hell, everybody has at least one dub that they think is good/not bad that others disagree with (I once remember Mike commenting that he likes the dub of Street Fighter: The Animated Movie. Personally, I think the dub soundtrack completely destroys the atmosphere of the film). If others enjoy the dub, let them. They aren't hurting anyone.

Also, I have to agree that most people's problems with DBZ stem from the original anime itself, rather than the dub. I also agree that filler often hurts the original characterization.

Saiyan Filler Gohan: Hey, look how much I've matured! Look how brave I am now!

While fighting Nappa: AH, I'm a pussy again!

To play the other side though, Toei can't be blamed for a lot of the problems with the show because the manga itself has its share of really crappy stuff, such as most of the Freeza fight.

Now that I've successfully picked at everyone in this thread, I think I'll bow out. Cheers!

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:35 pm

m121akuma wrote:And hell, everybody has at least one dub that they think is good/not bad that others disagree with (I once remember Mike commenting that he likes the dub of Street Fighter: The Animated Movie. Personally, I think the dub soundtrack completely destroys the atmosphere of the film). If others enjoy the dub, let them. They aren't hurting anyone.

While I haven't seen that movie in its entirety in Japanese prefer the dub's final showdown's rock music to the happy pop song playing. But like you said, to each their own. Not quite the same as dub wasn't changed, but heard a lot of Gundam fans say they prefer the ending theme that was on US tv for Gundam Wing to the original Japanese ending theme that's on the dvds. Have to agree with them. (For those of you wondering differences:

Japanese ending theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pGVhbTCMoc

US tv ending theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7q74jGYgfk

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:11 pm

B wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:
B wrote: No, it's not.
Umm, can you give your reasons why you think otherwise? I knew that the One Piece dub was terrible as soon as I heard the theme song. It was just bad, not because it had no business being used for One Piece, but because it was just horribly cheesy. That's just my opinion.
That theme song is wonderfully cheesy(And, honestly, better than the very first Japanese theme).

I'd have took you seriously, written a well thought out, and respectful response, but you said this. So I lol'd instead.

theoriginalbilis · Post by **theoriginalbilis** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:37 pm

Super Sonic wrote: Not quite the same as dub wasn't changed, but heard a lot of Gundam fans say they prefer the ending theme that was on US tv for Gundam Wing to the original Japanese ending theme that's on the dvds. Have to agree with them. (For those of you wondering differences:

Japanese ending theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pGVhbTCMoc

US tv ending theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7q74jGYgfk

At least that was part of the original soundtrack though.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:42 pm

m121akuma wrote:Saiyan Filler Gohan: Hey, look how much I've matured! Look how brave I am now!

While fighting Nappa: AH, I'm a pussy again!

There's quite a big difference between training for something and then actually being in combat with two guys who can blow up cities with the flip of a wrist.

I don't see any inconsistency in Gohan's behavior. He just wasn't as brave as he thought, and the Saiyans were overwhelming. Even Piccolo was sort of frightened.

Sebastian (SB) · Post by **Sebastian (SB)** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:27 pm

m121akuma wrote:Uhh...what? Did you just say that that retarded-as-hell rap song is better than "We Are"? One of the best anime openings in recent memory? Seriously?

I second that. While "We Are" was different kind of cheese to the 4Kids opening, it was wonderfully composed by Kouhei Tanaka (the series' musician) and performed brilliantly by professional artist, Hiroshi Kitadani of JAM Project. Kitadani did also did a duet with Masaaki Endoh of Saint Seiya fame for the song. The song perfectly reflects the themes and spirit of One Piece throughout the series before it went to the J-Pop fluff stunt casting that it has now. The 4Kids Opening is just a bunch of blabbering of the Devil Fruit. Admittedly, I've never bothered listening to the song the whole way through. It's just really bad cheese. I've listened to Micnogna's version of "We Are". It's pretty acceptable on all accounts, but he doesn't really bring the passion and spirit that Kitadani had in my mind nor did I think that was really the intention. It still would've been nice either way.

Reverting to the topic back at hand, while a English version of CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA would've been nice., I just don't think anyone can hold a candle to Kageyama's years of experience on the field of anime theme songs. That Filipino version was a pretty great contender though. It's a shame we won't get to see something like that ever happen here in the States.

B · Post by B » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:05 pm

Rory wrote:
B wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Umm, can you give your reasons why you think otherwise? I knew that the One Piece dub was terrible as soon as I heard the theme song. It was just bad, not because it had no business being used for One Piece, but because it was just horribly cheesy. That's just my opinion.
That theme song is wonderfully cheesy(And, honestly, better than the very first Japanese theme).
I'd have took you seriously, written a well thought out, and respectful response, but you said this. So I lol'd instead.

It's good to know you base your respect for people on Japanese cartoons. ^__^

mystic trunks · Post by **mystic trunks** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:28 pm

I like the Dub better because that is what I grew up watching. Naturally, I would like it more since I grew attached to the characters, music, etc.

Sebastian (SB) · Post by **Sebastian (SB)** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:27 pm

I grew up with the dub at as well, mostly through the Cell arc and the repeats of the Ocean dub episodes and early FUNi material (Ginyu and Freeza), but then I saw VHS fansubs of Movies 7, 11, and 12 when FUNimation was just getting around to dubbing the Buu arc. From that point on, I never really bothered with the dub again (save for some pivotal moments like Goku vs. Vegeta, Goku transforming into SSJ3, etc.,). The atmosphere was just different. While a lot of the stories remained the same, the dialogue was different, often coming into some minor character trait clashes or plot inconsistencies. I wouldn't entirely say that growing up watching the dub, you would naturally choose that as a preference. It's more like nurture. What's available to you, you would eventually come to accept that as what you know and are familiar with, often accepting it as the truth.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:52 pm

The "I grew up with the dub" excuse is so ridiculous to me, because I grew up with it, too, but I also grew up watching VHS fansubs that (presumably) most of the fandom at the time also watched.

It's a shame some of you seem to have missed out on third/fourth generation VHS copies of late DBZ sagas and the movies. And the Filipino dub of movies 5 and 6.

I also grew up with Robotech, but as soon as a good boxset for Macross becaome available, I bought it up and never looked back.

Nostalgia has to evolve, too. It's why I only watch the Samurai Troopers side of my Ronin Warriors boxset.

Ex-Dubbie369 · Post by **Ex-Dubbie369** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:18 pm

penguintruth wrote:Nostalgia has to evolve, too.

No, it doesn't. I'm a Power Ranger fan. Am I inferior because I have only seen a clip of Sentai and don't really desperately want or care to watch more?

I don't understand this mentality of some fans that seems to think that if you don't look for the original material and prefer it, you are a lesser fan. Is it wrong to enjoy something because it's an adaptation.

I know, you say "It's a different show", but I've seen most of the anime in both languages, and you know what, Goku still fights Freeza, Gohan still fights Cell, etc. I know about the changes in characterization, and, surprise, some people prefer it.

I am a fan of the Japanese version. I, in fact, prefer it over the English dub. I also realize that not everyone has those preferences. But we are all Dragonball Fans and I'm glad people are able to enjoy for their own reasons. No one is above or below me in this fandom.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:53 pm

If they aren't a fan of what DBZ is, they're a fan of what it's not. How doesn't that make them a lesser fan?

Just because Funimation made the show seem like something different for their version, doesn't make it that thing.

And sorry, but it's hard for me to wrap my mind around them preferring sarcastic superhero Goku over naive manchild Goku. Toriyama intended Goku to be a flawed, but likeable hillbilly, not some well-spoken white knight. There are tons of white knight characters like that in fiction, even in other anime. They can go find those guys. That's not what DB is about.

And yes, nostalgia absolutely needs to evolve. Otherwise, you're just deluding yourself.

Ex-Dubbie369 · Post by **Ex-Dubbie369** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:05 am

And who's to determine what Dragonball is and isn't? Is it wrong for people to like it for the reasons that they like it? I think they should be informed of what the original version of the series is like, but by no means does it mean they have to like it that way. Just ask all the Ninja Turtle fans who have no idea that they were a violent 80s comic before the TV show. Should everyone prefer that too?

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:10 am

Ex-Dubbie369 wrote:And who's to determine what Dragonball is and isn't?

Uh, Akira Toriyama. The guy who made it.

And while the anime version takes its own liberties from the manga, it doesn't change the main plot or character personalities. While the DBZ dub has the bare minimum of plot similarities, its characters and dialogue are often skewed wildly from the originally intended.

And since Toei produced a complete television series, what they produced was what is intended for the anime. An English version, ideally, is merely an English-language version of that original show. Funimation failed at this.

Just ask all the Ninja Turtle fans who have no idea that they were a violent 80s comic before the TV show. Should everyone prefer that too?

This is a flawed parallel, because the cartoon was intended to be a different production than the comics from its planning, and turned out the way it was intended. Nobody messed with it after it had been produced as such.

Except the British, who don't like the word "ninja", and replaced it with "hero".

By the same token, if the original Fullmetal Alchemist series, which differs from the original manga, had an English dub that was significantly different from the script of the Japanese version, you couldn't argue that it's just as good, since the series is different from the manga. It's not the job of the region licensor and dub studio to do an entirely different version of the show.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:22 am

penguintruth wrote:I also grew up with Robotech, but as soon as a good boxset for Macross becaome available, I bought it up and never looked back.

Know a lot of guys look at Robotech more as an adaptation rather than a straight dub, kinda like PR or West Side Story. Either way, I still say guys under 30 really can't judge Robotech's changes.

On topic of die-hards I knew a few people who said they didn't want to see "The Passion of the Christ" because they didn't want to read subtitles. Can be like that. Or they're like you know how a lot of guys who prefer anime subbed say they can't watch Japanese movies with giant radioactive monsters subbed, because they find the dubs funny? Could be like that.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:24 am

Look, I can understand the DBZ dub from a "It's so bad, it's good" point of view. But not from a "It's good" one.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:34 am

penguintruth wrote:If they aren't a fan of what DBZ is, they're a fan of what it's not. How doesn't that make them a lesser fan?

Okay, these "a fan of the dub isn't a real fan" kinds of comments need to stop right now. Things like that are just asking to start an argument and lead to the locking of a thread.

Dub or Sub, we're all fans of the same thing: Dragonball.

And about Nostalgia, there's nothing wrong with it. Otherwise, we wouldn't be getting an awesome new Astro Boy movie, or a Reboot theatrical remake. Flinstones DVD sets wouldn't sell, and Family Guy would have never been brought back on the air. (Although it's debatable sometimes on how good of a thing that last one was

FG has it's moments...but it can get repetitive. )

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:34 am

penguintruth, you are imposing your beliefs on others.

To prefer something over another in matters of art is always a matter of opinion and personal taste. Its not a scientific, verifiable equation.

Therefore, the conclusion reached will always a subjective one which will vary immensely.
Its possible for most people to reach the same conclusion but it is pretty much impossible to everyone to reach the same conclusion.

Basically, you can argue as much as you want that the original is better and say that dub fans are wrong or whatever, but that won`t make you right and that won`t ever be more than your personal opinion which is not worth more than any other opinion.