Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:18 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:
penguintruth wrote: If you look at the Japanese script, and you look at the English script, and they're significantly different, how is that a good adaptation?
Maybe if we're talking Season 3 and to a lesser extent, the first half of the Android saga. But after that it's more or less a loose translation.
Ha ha oh my no, the imperfect and perfect Cell sagas have awful scripts too. I just watched them dubbed. Cell Games onwards is a loose translation I'd say.

Eh, I've watched them plenty of times. I definitely wouldn't say they had awful scripts. Maybe inconsistent, but it wasn't like they changed Imperfect Cell's backstory or anything. Hell, they even kept all of Goku's motives in tact. The only really bad thing I found was Bulma's foot massage joke.

Can anyone tell me any truly significant dialogue change after the Android saga? I'm seriously curious of any important change Funi made after that because I sure as hell haven't caught them.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:22 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Maybe if we're talking Season 3 and to a lesser extent, the first half of the Android saga. But after that it's more or less a loose translation.
Ha ha oh my no, the imperfect and perfect Cell sagas have awful scripts too. I just watched them dubbed. Cell Games onwards is a loose translation I'd say.
Eh, I've watched them plenty of times. I definitely wouldn't say they had awful scripts. Maybe inconsistent, but it wasn't like they changed Imperfect Cell's backstory or anything. Hell, they even kept all of Goku's motives in tact. The only really bad thing I found was Bulma's foot massage joke.

Goku's speech to Gohan when Imperfect Cell was kicking Piccolo's green ass was painful, and 16 having an updated "neural link" as opposed to just saying he's a robot are two of the more painful moments. Then we have Vegeta's lame "extreme" one liners in the Imperfect Cell fights that nobody past 12 will find cool. Trunks saying the weather in the ROSAT was being created by his father when it wasn't etc. etc.

Yeaaaaaahhhhh.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:23 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote: Ha ha oh my no, the imperfect and perfect Cell sagas have awful scripts too. I just watched them dubbed. Cell Games onwards is a loose translation I'd say.
Eh, I've watched them plenty of times. I definitely wouldn't say they had awful scripts. Maybe inconsistent, but it wasn't like they changed Imperfect Cell's backstory or anything. Hell, they even kept all of Goku's motives in tact. The only really bad thing I found was Bulma's foot massage joke.
Goku's speech to Gohan when Imperfect Cell was kicking Piccolo's green ass was painful, and 16 having an updated "neural link" as opposed to just saying he's a robot are two of the more painful moments. Then we have Vegeta's lame "extreme" one liners in the Imperfect Cell fights that nobody past 12 will find cool. Trunks saying the weather in the ROSAT was being created by his father when it wasn't etc. etc.

Yeaaaaaahhhhh.

So things that really didn't amount to anything in the end?

I'm gonna have to re-watch Goku's "speech" to Gohan because I honestly don't recall anything bad about it.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:26 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Eh, I've watched them plenty of times. I definitely wouldn't say they had awful scripts. Maybe inconsistent, but it wasn't like they changed Imperfect Cell's backstory or anything. Hell, they even kept all of Goku's motives in tact. The only really bad thing I found was Bulma's foot massage joke.
Goku's speech to Gohan when Imperfect Cell was kicking Piccolo's green ass was painful, and 16 having an updated "neural link" as opposed to just saying he's a robot are two of the more painful moments. Then we have Vegeta's lame "extreme" one liners in the Imperfect Cell fights that nobody past 12 will find cool. Trunks saying the weather in the ROSAT was being created by his father when it wasn't etc. etc.

Yeaaaaaahhhhh.
So things that really didn't amount to anything in the end?

I'm gonna have to re-watch Goku's "speech" to Gohan because I honestly don't recall anything bad about it.

What do you mean "didn't amount to anything?" Dialogue has to change the very essence of the show to be a script inaccuracy?

penguintruth wrote:
and later in in the Buu Saga.

Literally, it's like they wanted to follow the script in the Buu saga but midway through they decided to just go back to their regular antics.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:38 pm

Guys, I think you can start honing those quoting skills. Looking at those boxes within boxes is pretty disorienting.

I thought it was pretty bizarre that they added so much damn inner monologue to Gohan's SS2 transformation. A moment that had such tact in the original fell flat due to that and the music every second. When it comes to DBZ, Funimation refuses to have any moments of silence.

Anyway, it looks like I'm not making any head way. We're just arguing in circles, as usual.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:41 pm

penguintruth wrote:Guys, I think you can start honing those quoting skills. Looking at those boxes within boxes is pretty disorienting.

Many people rely on the quote train to get from place to place.

CashmanX · Post by **CashmanX** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:47 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:
penguintruth wrote:Guys, I think you can start honing those quoting skills. Looking at those boxes within boxes is pretty disorienting.
Many people rely on the quote train to get from place to place.

Quot- I mean sigged!

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:58 pm

I don't see how Gohan's dialogue during the SSJ2 transformation hurt the scene. It actually made it better, imo, because it showed how Gohan knew that he had to change.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:02 pm

No, in the original, good version, Gohan was in shock. He had actually "snapped" and went nuts with rage. He wasn't actually thinking about anything. There was no "logic" or "decision" behind him cutting loose and transforming. The entire point was that he finally stopped thinking so much and let his emotions take over.

In the dub version, he took the time to ponder to himself, "well darn, 16 just died. He was a nice robot. I should really try harder for him. Raaaah!"

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:05 pm

"I WON'T WATCH THIS ANYMORE!"

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:07 pm

The sad thing is, all Funimation had to do was NOT put in more lines, and that scene would have been okay. Not great, in my opinion, but okay. Even with the Faulconer score. Even without "Day of Destiny ~ Spirit vs Spirit". They were so close, but they just had to add in more talk.

The only time more talk ever worked in the dub was the baseball commentary during the filler where Yamcha was a baseball player.

Funimation even adds more lines in their better dubs, for some reason. It's like they can't help it.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:08 pm

jjgp112 wrote:"I WON'T WATCH THIS ANYMORE!"

Yeah, he said that after he babbled out some dumb conversation with himself about how much 16 "loved life."

The dub's monologue ruins the scene because it misses the entire point.

ShadowDude112 · Post by **ShadowDude112** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:09 pm

penguintruth wrote:The sad thing is, all Funimation had to do was NOT put in more lines, and that scene would have been okay. Not great, in my opinion, but okay. Even with the Faulconer score. Even without "Day of Destiny ~ Spirit vs Spirit". They were so close, but they just had to add in more talk.

The only time more talk ever worked in the dub was the baseball commentary during the filler where Yamcha was a baseball player.

Funimation even adds more lines in their better dubs, for some reason. It's like they can't help it.

I think it's because they think the viewers would be bored although that's just my guess.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:10 pm

ShadowDude112 wrote:I think it's because they think the viewers would be bored although that's just my guess.

Yeah, that's probably another reason they added their own non-stop music (aside from royalty money). It has to be playing non-stop because the kiddies don't have the attention span for 10 seconds of silence.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:12 pm

ShadowDude112 wrote:
penguintruth wrote:The sad thing is, all Funimation had to do was NOT put in more lines, and that scene would have been okay. Not great, in my opinion, but okay. Even with the Faulconer score. Even without "Day of Destiny ~ Spirit vs Spirit". They were so close, but they just had to add in more talk.

The only time more talk ever worked in the dub was the baseball commentary during the filler where Yamcha was a baseball player.

Funimation even adds more lines in their better dubs, for some reason. It's like they can't help it.
I think it's because they think the viewers would be bored although that's just my guess.

It is kinda true. Some of those long ass staredowns in DBZ often times have no music or dialogue in the Japanese version, and let me tell you, it gets boring. Thank God for the audio button. At least the dub adds some form of life to those scenes that drag all the time.

ShadowDude112 · Post by **ShadowDude112** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:14 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
ShadowDude112 wrote:
penguintruth wrote:The sad thing is, all Funimation had to do was NOT put in more lines, and that scene would have been okay. Not great, in my opinion, but okay. Even with the Faulconer score. Even without "Day of Destiny ~ Spirit vs Spirit". They were so close, but they just had to add in more talk.

The only time more talk ever worked in the dub was the baseball commentary during the filler where Yamcha was a baseball player.

Funimation even adds more lines in their better dubs, for some reason. It's like they can't help it.
I think it's because they think the viewers would be bored although that's just my guess.
It is kinda true. Some of those long ass staredowns in DBZ often times have no music or dialogue in the Japanese version, and let me tell you, it gets boring. Thank God for the audio button. At least the dub adds some form of life to those scenes that drag all the time.

Well the no music and everything brings the suspense up that's why there is no music.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:16 pm

ShadowDude112 wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:
ShadowDude112 wrote:I think it's because they think the viewers would be bored although that's just my guess.
It is kinda true. Some of those long ass staredowns in DBZ often times have no music or dialogue in the Japanese version, and let me tell you, it gets boring. Thank God for the audio button. At least the dub adds some form of life to those scenes that drag all the time.
Well the no music and everything brings the suspense up that's why there is no music.

Well, true, but having Trunks and Cell or Goku and Frieza stop and stare at each other for no reason and for long periods of times in absolute silence is just plain dull. At least music playing makes the scenes watchable.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:16 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:It is kinda true. Some of those long ass staredowns in DBZ often times have no music or dialogue in the Japanese version, and let me tell you, it gets boring. Thank God for the audio button. At least the dub adds some form of life to those scenes that drag all the time.

Proving SSj Kaboom's point on short attention spans.

The silence builds tension, so that the action punctuates, and has more of an impact.

Now, granted, you're right in that some of those scenes go on a little too long. But adding more music there just means we get long filler scenes AND generic sounding music over it.

In the case of the Super Saiyan 2 transformation, the added lines only beat the point to death and the added music leading up to it ruined the tension that made the explosion into that form so exciting.

ShadowDude112 · Post by **ShadowDude112** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:22 pm

penguintruth wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:It is kinda true. Some of those long ass staredowns in DBZ often times have no music or dialogue in the Japanese version, and let me tell you, it gets boring. Thank God for the audio button. At least the dub adds some form of life to those scenes that drag all the time.
Proving SSj Kaboom's point on short attention spans.

The silence builds tension, so that the action punctuates, and has more of an impact.

Now, granted, you're right in that some of those scenes go on a little too long. But adding more music there just means we get long filler scenes AND generic sounding music over it.

In the case of the Super Saiyan 2 transformation, the added lines only beat the point to death and the added music leading up to it ruined the tension that made the explosion into that form so exciting.

I think you have a point I don't feel like hearing lines being added when they make no sense.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:25 pm

Exactly.

"He loved life."

Thanks, Gohan. I wouldn't have known that if you hadn't thought it aloud. He loved life, really? I totally didn't notice in the speech he just gave about how he loved life.

"I can feel it slipping."

It's a good think you're walking us through it, Gohan, because otherwise I would be totally in the dark.

Doesn't the original script already have enough obvious redundancy to add even more in the dub?