Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

[laserkid]

The main difference between those clips is the Budokai Tenkaichi recording has Sabat sounding LOUDER, but the general voice is the same.

[JulieYBM]

This is Sabat's Piccolo in Raging Blast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixhEkMqnoG0

It's essentially his natural voice, however lowered. No more of the scratchy bark he did in the series. A huge improvement, and nothing like McNeil's, which actually was a character voice.

[NeptuneKai]

Fun Fact: Sabat's Piccolo voice started developing into something more deeper and bearable exactly after Piccolo fuses with Kami.

[Sebastian (SB)]

Fun Fact: Sabat's Piccolo voice started developing into something more deeper and bearable exactly after Piccolo fuses with Kami.

Strangely enough, that's very true. Didn't VegettoEX himself say that particular episode was more bearable than the rest of the dub episodes? Sabat's Piccolo in the Raging Blast demo is very much an improvement and culmination of all his voice acting experience over the years. He's really in his top form there. Ever since Burst Limit came out, I've seen a general improvement in localization and voice performances for the games. Solid scripts (albeit the dub namings and attacks) make me happy.

[Kunzait_83]

As for Funi's in-house dub back in season 3, yeah, they were bad, but it's not like they stayed that way until the end, contrary to what others think.

Actually, that’s EXACTLY like it is if you ask me. Contrary to what Metalwario was saying earlier about judging the whole dub as if it’s all season 3, yes I HAVE heard much of the rest of the dub (thanks largely to Onikage). It’s STILL awful. ALL of it. Season 3 is season 4 is season 5 etc. in terms of vocal quality. I’ve never once heard a single shred of improvement in 90% of all the voices throughout the actual anime itself. Nearly all of them sound nearly every bit as bad in the much overrated Boo arc performances as they did all the way back in season 3. Ditto the redub of 1 and 2. Same forced (and extraordinarily gay sounding, I can never stress that enough) yelling and grunting, same altered characterizations, and so on.

It’s just a lousy, lousy sounding show: the entire cast lacks a single shred of charisma between them in these roles, everyone’s voice is so goddamned obnoxious and LOUD; everyone just overacts all the damned time to the point where they sound like a bunch of jackasses. Nobody ever just talks in this dub. Y’know, just talk. Nobody. Never. EVERYTHING has to be either SHOUTED and SHRIEKED at the top of everyone’s lungs (to the point where I can’t imagine that drool wasn’t slobbered all over the microphones during the recording of this shit) or spoken in some idiotic “cartoon character voice” that sounds like some shitty amateur hour standup comic trying to do impressions (and failing pitifully). It actually DOES sound like a fucking fan parody dub. Exactly like one.

Nobody just sounds like a natural sounding, believable human being (in stark contrast to the Japanese version, where nearly EVERYONE is just talking in nice, even, realistic tones, carrying on organic sounding conversations). It’s all just intolerable to sit through. Its utter schlock, and not even the “so bad it’s accidentally good” type of schlock (which I’d be able to get on board with quite happily). It’s just irritating. It’s exact equivalent of listening to Lloyd Christmas doing his rendition of “the most annoying sound in the world” for hours and hours at a time non stop. I can sit through (and indeed HAVE sat through) just about all of the all time worst anime dubs that the 80’s and early 90’s had to offer (and believe me, that’s a LOT of them), but VERY few of them (a select few of them) make me just want to punch my TV screen in or claw my own fingernails out against the wall in sheer annoyance the way that the DBZ dub does. Leaving every last solitary shred of my DB fandom the hell out of the equation, the dub is just fucking annoying to sit through or stomach for longer than 30 second bursts. It’s just inarguably, inexcusably unlistenable. And this is just the voices, never mind once we bring the dialogue and the Faulconer tracks into the mix, which are all equally awful and equally irritating and obnoxious.

And just to throw this out there, I almost never take seriously when people drag the video game performances into dub voice debates. Yes it’s nice that Sabat’s Piccolo now sounds anywhere from tolerable to even decent (like in a few lines of that clip Yugi put up) a good… 11 or so years after he first started doing the voice. Does this change or improve his performance within the actual damn series? Not a bit. He’ll still always sound like absolute shit if I ever try to change over the audio on my DVDs. So really, barring a future redub (that’ll probably never happen), who the bloody hell cares? How does an improved performance in a video game (that I may or may not even want to play in the first place) done years and years after the fact alter or make up for the godawful swill that will be forever preserved within the actual episode content forever and ever?

It doesn’t, and it’s a bullshit argument that attempts to skirt the main issue (the show itself) if you ask me. If Sabat and the rest of the dub cast can take all the improvements they’ve made over the years and transfer it into the actual show itself with listenable performances (which I find to be flat out impossible in a lot of their cases due to just inexcusable miscasting for many of them: hello Freeza, Kaio, Vegeta, Muten Roshi, and so on and so forth…), THEN maybe we’ll talk. Until then what’s on the anime itself is all that matters ultimately, so let’s just stick to that.

Personally though, I've always been of the mind that if there ever was a proper redub, junk the entire principle dub cast and just start from scratch. Half the reason we got the lousy cast/performances that we did in the first place was because they were trying to sound like the Ocean cast (who had tons of miscastings between them anyhow, making most of the miscastings of the FUNi dub miscastings OF miscastings). The ONLY way to break this fucking cycle is to just... ignore... everything... the previous... fucking... English dubs... ever... did and rethink the entire goddamn approach to almost every character.

And no, a potential Kai dub does NOT count, so fuck that before anyone even says it. At this point it’s Kikuchi’s score or GTFO.

And hell yeah, Kunzait. I've been a fan of Phantasy Star IV since I played it around... I dunno, July or August of 1999? I was either 11 or 12. I've never liked Magus much, I've always considered him a very bland, generic character. Far as Phantasy Star goes I've always liked pretty much all the characters except maybe Raja (Who I'm mostly indifferent to even though everyone else loves him so much). Kyra's definitely unsung in my opinion, she doesn't get much attention (Maybe because she's introduced so late) but I've always liked how bright and cute she is.

I actually first played PSIV as a demo about a year before its U.S. release. So this would’ve been… sometime in early to mid 1994 or thereabouts. It had been getting a decent amount of hype at the time and I’d played all the other games in the series, but IV quickly became my all time favorite of the series, not to mention my favorite console RPG period.

And yeah, I too love every single one of the characters, be they playable, NPCs, bosses, etc. Everything about that game’s world is just utter perfection. Also yes, count me in the majority as a huge Raja fan. Raja’s awesome. Can you imagine if he ever somehow got together with Kaio? Dear god, the sheer volume of awful puns that would ensue might cause the fabric of reality to unravel.

Kyra is underrated I agree and I do like her, but not as much as I like Gryz who if you ask me is just as equally unsung as she is. I like Gryz's attitude and hair trigger temper. He pulls off the whole "angry young man that's mad at the world" schtick without ever once going anywhere close to overboard with it and without coming off as the slightest bit whiny or petulant (which would've been a very, very easy trap to fall into, especially nowadays); instead he actually makes it into something that's genuinely cool and even a bit menacing at times. He's the quiet and subtle person's badass, and an excellent example of less being more; which is probably why he's as underrated as he is. I wouldn't even want to begin to imagine the kind of overwrought, angsty character he'd be written as in today's console RPG climate (especially with the whole "major villain killed my parents" backstory that he has).

But my favorite character of course will always be Rune. No primary wizard/mentor character in any RPG I've ever played before or since has ever been as remotely close to as wonderfully cynical and ice cold while still remaining incredibly endearing for it the way Rune is. He's the best combination of a total smart-ass who actually has the genuine wisdom (and whopping power) to back up all his dismissive trash talk. He's the kind of mentor character who'll completely bust your chops with the most cutting insults he can dish out, and it's only until a little while after you've mulled over what he said that you begin to see the great helpful advice he'd given you (in the most asshole-ish way he possibly could) buried beneath what seemed like just little more than an arrogant dress down.

[Onikage725]

Woaaah!! Wall-o-text!!

Anyway, I just prefer FUNimation's in-house dub because I prefer the voices (who did move into their own roles mostly) and because it has an uncut version. I also enjoy it more now because they have re-inserted the Japanese music, which I prefer to any other score for the series including Kai's.

The scripts also got better around... let's say, somewhere around Season Five or maybe early Season Six. There are still dumb jokes here and there, but it's not too far off compared to the cringe-worthy Season Three (of which seems to be a lot of sub-fans interpretation of the FUNimation in-house dub around here).

Another thing is, outside of the start of Season Three, there is no mention of the "Other Dimension" and characters can openly state if someone is dead, and villains can openly state "I'll kill you!"

I'm no Kunzait, but we are friends for a reason :p

Thank you for the reply. I guess my major issue, script-wise, is that I see it as too little, too late. The Saiyan, Freeza, Garlic Jr, and half to 3/4ths of the Cell Saga get shafted, and I find it hard to let that slide just cuz the Buu Saga and some of Cell is kind of ok.

I'm pretty much the poster child for dub fan gone to the subbed side. I love both casts, but the dub performances in the series just aren't very good. At all. It's completely out of synch with their other dubs, in terms of acting and casting, and that shows.

I'm basically a different generation of the same thing. I loved the show from the word go, and it was during the hiatus that I sought out further content (which, of course, was in Japanese). I was already into anime, so the language didn't bother me. I still counted as a dub fan,, and I eagerly awaited the shows return. I bought the first VHS tapes, well before they aired on CN. And I was not even close to impressed.

[Super Sonic]

I can say that when the series was coming out to dvd and after I got a dvd player, the main reason for watching the dub besides preferring at the time was due to me being a lazy egalitarian fan when it came to anime. What I mean is, let's say you bought Wolverine or a Disney movie on dvd. When you first purchased it, do you go to the special commentary, Spanish track or behind the scenes first, or did you pop that bad boy in and push play and watch as is? For me, I did the latter. And as pretty much all dual-language dvds start in English, I watched it first. Still watched dub later except for movie 13, but haven't gotten around to it. Then again it did take me a bit to watch it after buying it since bought vol. 1 of Voltron that same day back then. (Hey, I'm an 80's boy. Voltron!)

[penguintruth]

Wow, Kunzait's even harsher than I would have been had I expanded on my opinions.

But I largely agree.

[Innagadadavida]

Actually, that’s EXACTLY like it is if you ask me. Contrary to what Metalwario was saying earlier about judging the whole dub as if it’s all season 3, yes I HAVE heard much of the rest of the dub (thanks largely to Onikage). It’s STILL awful. ALL of it. Season 3 is season 4 is season 5 etc. in terms of vocal quality. I’ve never once heard a single shred of improvement in 90% of all the voices throughout the actual anime itself.

Well, I know the reason you hate the dub. It is a complete bastardization of everything you love about the show. There are plenty of fair criticisms, but to say that the acting hasn't improved in the slightest just isn't true.
If you're looking for more natural sounding voices with some acceptable acting then that's exactly what you get as the series progresses (in the order that it was dubbed rather than the actual order of episodes). FUNimation's cast does not compare to the renowned talent of the Japanese version at all; remember, most cast members were not even full-time voice actors when they started (which is no excuse for the poor quality of certain parts of the show). I have no interest in defending a lot about the dub. But in response to your claim that the acting doesn't improve at all... Well, I have a feeling that your extreme distaste for the FUNimation dub may be clouding your judgment. Also I doubt that you have not watched the English dub in its entirety. Not that I expect you to have, and certainly not that you should.

Nobody just sounds like a natural sounding, believable human being (in stark contrast to the Japanese version, where nearly EVERYONE is just talking in nice, even, realistic tones, carrying on organic sounding conversations).

Well, it is a cartoon. We're not exactly talking about natural and realistic characters. In that respect, I feel that some unnatural and cartoony voices aren't entirely out of place. But some of FUNimation's Dragon Ball characters do have a natural, realistic sounding voice.
Teen Gohan, Yamcha, Adult Goku, Future Trunks, Tenshinhan, 17, 18, Tenkaichi Budokai Announcer, and a few others. So to say nobody sounds like a natural believable human being also just isn't true.

But otherwise, I'm not under the impression that the dub is good, or even acceptable by today's standards. I just wanted to point those out. And just for the record, I am slowly gravitating toward the Japanese version more and more every day. I'm planning on watching the entire series from start to finish in Japanese with the Dragon Boxes. Any attempt I may make to argue in favor of the dub should not be misconstrued as personal validation or general anger over what is being said.

[B]

Not really an argument, probably just my opinion, but Tenshinhan's voice doesn't sound all that natural. Even moreso if you've actually heard his VA's speaking voice.

Not necessarily saying it's a good or bad performance, but, I couldn't see someone simply talking with Ten's dub voice. It's definately cartoonish.

[Innagadadavida]

Not really an argument, probably just my opinion, but Tenshinhan's voice doesn't sound all that natural. Even moreso if you've actually heard his VA's speaking voice.

Not necessarily saying it's a good or bad performance, but, I couldn't see someone simply talking with Ten's dub voice. It's definately cartoonish.

Fair enough, perhaps Ten wasn't the best example. But that clip doesn't represent what he sounds like through the whole show, there is a reason you had it auto skip to that portion.

[Kunzait_83]

Also I doubt that you have not watched the English dub in its entirety. Not that I expect you to have, and certainly not that you should.

I never said I watched ALL of it. Just a good deal of it. More than I likely ever would have had I never became friends with Onikage. He basically had me (more like forced me against my will) watch huge chunks of the dub over the years that it was on, cause he was going through this obsession at the time of comparing the Japanese version to the dub and wanted the input of someone with a great deal of familiarity with the former.

But even had I never met Onikage, I’d have still seen tons of the dub simply due to how popular it was getting. DBZ fever swept my high school with a vengeance in 2000/2001, so almost every time I went over someone’s house or went to a party or whatever, SOMEBODY almost always had the damn dub on at some point. It was ever present and unavoidable for a good few years at the time.

Well, it is a cartoon. We're not exactly talking about natural and realistic characters. In that respect, I feel that some unnatural and cartoony voices aren't entirely out of place.

The Japanese version seems to have absolutely no problems with presenting them all with natural sounding voices. I honestly feel that it lends a unique flavor to the show to have all this bizarre, weird-ass shit being played (acting-wise) so straight down the line.

Plus there’s a LOT of moments in this show where that style of goofy cartoon acting just cannot work for what’s being presented. For all of Dragon Ball’s inherent weirdness, there’s a damned lot of death and genuine character drama going on, and there's large stretches of it that are nowhere remotely NEAR as lighthearted and "spirit of adventury" as so many of the more ardent daizexers around here seem to desperately want to believe it is. This isn’t exactly Bo bo bo bo bo or Doremon we’re talking about here, Shonen though this series may be. It may not be Hokuto no Ken, but it’s also not exactly Dr. Slump or Pokemon either (or anywhere remotely close to those). It’s definitely in the same realm as Yu Yu Hakusho. And do you see FUNi’s cast members voicing those characters in that cartoony manner (aside from Koenma and Kuwabara, the former for whom it fits, the latter for whom it most certainly does not)? No you don’t. FUNi has no qualms voicing most of YYH’s cast straight and natural down the line, by and large. DBZ is a genuine anomaly in their dubbing oeuvre, and there’s no excuse for it at all.

When you have scenes like someone watching their best friend get eviscerated or their hometown get wiped out before their eyes, it makes for VERY un-engaging viewing when everyone is still voiced like goofy cartoon characters. Having the characters played straight in the Japanese version lends the dramatic moments genuine gravitas and makes you actually come to care about what’s going on. In the dub, it makes these scenes come off like some kind of weird fan parody, and it just disconnects you from what’s happening. If no one in the show is taking Piccolo’s death seriously, why should I? And if Kaio is gonna sound like a Down's Syndrome baby instead of a benevolent deity, why shouldn't I laugh off his warnings about Freeza the same way that Goku is? And if Muten Roshi is gonna sound like a complete tool ALL THE TIME, even when he fights, doesn't that take a LOT of the badass out of his badass moments in the early parts of the series?

I think that that “cartoony” style of voice acting is only fitting for the more gag-manga-ish characters like Pilaf and his cohorts, as well as much of the Dr. Slump cast when they make their appearance. But for characters like Tao Pai Pai, Freeza, Vegeta, Piccolo, Muten Roshi, and so forth? Not so much.

But some of FUNimation's Dragon Ball characters do have a natural, realistic sounding voice.Teen Gohan, Yamcha, Adult Goku, Future Trunks, Tenshinhan, 17, 18, Tenkaichi Budokai Announcer, and a few others. So to say nobody sounds like a natural believable human being also just isn't true.

I only agree with a few of those. 17, 18, the Budokai Announcer, and Yamucha ONLY in original DB (in Z he has that stupid surfer thing for much of it). I actually do like Chuck Huber’s 17 a great deal and his is IMO easily the single best performance in the ENTIRE dub, no question.

Future Trunks though I will NEVER get behind. Vale sounds like a damned fool when he voices that character. His Budokai Announcer is good; his Trunks, not remotely. Tenshinhan is also forced and overacted most of the time and sounds nothing in the realm of "natural". Schemmel’s Goku is only tolerable when he’s doing his happy go lucky manchild thing. When he actually has to fight and talk serious, he sounds incredibly stupid and the polar opposite of “badass” much of the time. He has some of THE worst screams and kiai fighting noises in the whole dub, second only to Sabat’s Vegeta and Piccolo. Boo arc Gohan is on and off. When he’s on he’s fine, when he’s off, he sounds almost as dumb as Vale does. I've heard him when he's "off" far too much to really hold a terribly possitive opinion of him.

I have a feeling that your extreme distaste for the FUNimation dub may be clouding your judgment.

You know what it might be that affects my judgment the most actually? How the characters sound when they fight.

This is first and foremost a martial arts anime. There’s a LOT of fighting in it. Lots of fighting means lots of kiais and screaming and fighting noises. And even the BEST voices in the FUNi cast simply CANNOT make these noises to save their lives. EVERYONE, even the few kinda good voices, sound utterly wretchedly idiotic when it comes time to fight… which is often in this show.

It again, is probably my background as a martial arts film fanatic playing into this. Dragon Ball is in many ways simply an anime extension of my love of martial arts films. And I’m sorry, but I’m used to characters in martial arts films who can KIAI when they fight, and who DON’T sound like… well, like they’re ass fucking each other.

When I think of Vale's Trunks, as much as I think of his shitty line delivery, I also think of the incredibly idiotic noises he makes when he fights. Ditto Schemmel. Ditto Sabat. Ditto just about everyone else. Nobody can deliver a credible scream or kiai in this show. Not even one that sounds good accidentally. There’s just TOO much forced, phony grunting and straining and moaning and… god, everyone sounds so flamingly gay when they fight. I simply do not get how anyone can hear fights like Piccolo vs Form 2 Freeza, or Son Goku vs Majin Vegeta and think “Wow these guys sound like BADASSES!” I hear them and can only think “Repressed homoeroticism.” This isn’t a knock on gays or anything… it’s just a sound and vocal quality that DOES NOT belong in a martial arts fight, especially one that's supposed to be even kind of serious. I get that they're going for a "wrestling, extreme hardcore UFC" kind of thing, but that's not only a fucking idiotic thing to attempt with this kind of material, it also falls flat on its face in this dub and with these actors trying to perform it.

If you’ve seen Harold and Kumar go to White Castle, and you remember the “extreme sports punks”… that’s basically what most of the characters sound like when they fight. And fighting makes up a LARGE part of the show. If nobody can sound good fighting, then it almost doesn’t matter if they can deliver their lines like Robert Duvall.

[Innagadadavida]

I think that that “cartoony” style of voice acting is only fitting for the more gag-manga-ish characters like Pilaf and his cohorts, as well as much of the Dr. Slump cast when they make their appearance. But for characters like Tao Pai Pai, Freeza, Vegeta, Piccolo, Muten Roshi, and so forth? Not so much.

W-w-w-w-what!? WHAT!? Tao!? Along side Freeza?!

Maybe it's because Tao is my second favorite villain. Maybe because I have not actually heard his Japanese voice actor (criminal, I know, but I just don't have the DVDs for that portion of the series). But I strongly disagree there. Even if it is cartoony. In an English adaptation, I would have no other voice for Tao.

[penguintruth]

I thought the Tao Pai Pai's English voice was somewhat acceptable. It had this sort of weird Prohibition Era gangster sound to it. Like he'd be hanging out with Bugs Moran, or you'd see him in a film adaptation of a Raymond Chandler book. Maybe inappropriate for an Asian-style assassin like Tao, but still pretty amusing.

I never liked Kaio's English VA, though. What's so great about his Japanese voice is that it's this sort of deep, authoritative voice, despite him looking and acting weird. It provides an amusing contrast.

[KaiserNeko]

I never liked Kaio's English VA, though. What's so great about his Japanese voice is that it's this sort of deep, authoritative voice, despite him looking and acting weird. It provides an amusing contrast.

I always imagined, in a perfect world, he's be voiced by Mako.

... God rest his soul.

[laserkid]

That would have been such an epic casting call, pity it can never happen.

[Onikage725]

Kunzait, I thought your favorite dub voice was Dabura!

And, as I said earlier, while it isn't true in my opinion that no voice improved or was good, that's kind of like saying "see, it isn't ALL crap! And some of the crap was eventually sprayed with Febreze!"

Basically, Yu Yu hakusho was what made me a FUNimation supporter. I'm watching it again through their season releases. I just got the last one in, popped it in after watching DB set 1, and THIS is what I wanted out of a DBZ dub. That's why I'm more tolerant of the DB dub. While not to the same level of quality in my opinion, it is more in line with the philosophy that gave us YYH (and so on, YYH is just my favorite anime in their catalogue and the first dub of theirs I like, so I tend to hold that up fro comparison). The voices are fairly natural-sounding, with the exceptions of some of the monsters (who shouldn't sound human anyway), and the two Kunzait mentioned. You did neglect, Kunzait, that the YYH dub has nuance to Koenma in that his older form fully loses that exaggerated brat aspect and is one of the best voices in the show. Genkai blows my mind, because Linda Young uses a voice very close to Freeza's. It goes to show what proper casting and intelligent script writing can do for a performance.

[B]

Not really an argument, probably just my opinion, but Tenshinhan's voice doesn't sound all that natural. Even moreso if you've actually heard his VA's speaking voice.

Not necessarily saying it's a good or bad performance, but, I couldn't see someone simply talking with Ten's dub voice. It's definately cartoonish.

Fair enough, perhaps Ten wasn't the best example. But that clip doesn't represent what he sounds like through the whole show, there is a reason you had it auto skip to that portion.

What? He sounds just like that in all the video games. And I think the 22nd Tournament is probably the best place to cite Burgmeier's take on the character, not counting games. Fairly certain this was dubbed after Z had ended.

[NeptuneKai]

Not really an argument, probably just my opinion, but Tenshinhan's voice doesn't sound all that natural. Even moreso if you've actually heard his VA's speaking voice.

Not necessarily saying it's a good or bad performance, but, I couldn't see someone simply talking with Ten's dub voice. It's definately cartoonish.

Fair enough, perhaps Ten wasn't the best example. But that clip doesn't represent what he sounds like through the whole show, there is a reason you had it auto skip to that portion.

What? He sounds just like that in all the video games.

Yeah I can 2nd this, that's pretty much what he always sounds like.

[Kendamu]

I never liked Kaio's English VA, though. What's so great about his Japanese voice is that it's this sort of deep, authoritative voice, despite him looking and acting weird. It provides an amusing contrast.

I always imagined, in a perfect world, he's be voiced by Mako.

... God rest his soul.

I was always torn on whether Kamesen'nin or Kaiou should've been played by Mako.