Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:16 pm

B wrote:You guys are no fun, that song rocked.

I liked the song, but it really didn't work as an anime intro.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:21 pm

penguintruth wrote:
Gozar wrote:What I mean is, choose your words carefully. When it comes to Dub/Subs debates there's a fine line between debate and flame war. Don't give sparks by saying that the DBZ Dub isn't DBZ. Despite the changes, the storyline it's self is the same. It's telling the same story.
Do I have to use the Robotech/Macross example again?

This is my own opinion but personally I think no one under 34 can really judge Robotech. Think only ones who can were those if given choice to watch Macross when it premiered subbed would've. And I mean original premiere back in Fall 1985. And as I wasn't literate at the time, (was few weeks shy of third birthday) I can't judge it. Yeah it's different than Macross, but still ok. And Dan Woren and Tony Oliver rock s Roy Fokker and Rick Hunter.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:36 pm

Majin Buu wrote:I agree with Penguintruth. I'm trying, but I honestly can't think of a single redeeming quality of Step Into the Grand Tour.

It's actually connected to the show it's a theme song of?

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:41 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Majin Buu wrote:I agree with Penguintruth. I'm trying, but I honestly can't think of a single redeeming quality of Step Into the Grand Tour.
It's actually connected to the show it's a theme song of?

And that's your ONLY plus now isn't it?

I could scream "DRAGON BALL GT! GOKU IS A KID AGAIN!! SUPER SAIYAN 4!! PAAAAAAAN" into a microphone with sounds of car crashes and cats screeching and Nails on a Chalkboard in the background, with my hands slamming down on a Piano without rhyme or reason.

The "Song" I'd produce would directly say "Dragon Ball" "Goku" "Pan" etc, but... it'd still be a bad choice for a theme song because it's a Terrible Song...

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:02 am

Gozar wrote:
penguintruth wrote:Looking for trouble? No, I'm looking for debate. It's why discussion forums exist, is it not? I'm assuming Mike didn't put this board here so everyone could agree with each other all the time.
What I mean is, choose your words carefully. When it comes to Dub/Subs debates there's a fine line between debate and flame war. Don't give sparks by saying that the DBZ Dub isn't DBZ. Despite the changes, the storyline it's self is the same. It's telling the same story.

But it really isn't the same. The script is very important; without it, you can't call the show Dragon Ball Z anymore. FUNimation changed the script, therefore making their own show. I don't care if the visuals are the same; Warriors of the Wind has the same visuals as Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, but Hayao Miyazaki said to just forget its existence because it was so different (and terrible).

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:08 am

My Dragon Ball GT song:

G-T
Series 3
Toei couldn't let it be!

Toriyama couldn't be bothered
Yet still this series was fathered

G-T
Series 3
Toei couldn't let it be!

Trunks and Pan are on the ride
Where is Goten? Let it slide

G-T
Series 3
Toei couldn't let it be!

Goku's small once again
Making some annoying friends

G-T
Series 3!
G-T
Series 3!
G-T
It made money!

Still better than "Step into the Grand Tour".

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:25 am

penguintruth, that is your own personal opinion. It has no bearing in reality outside your mind. Sorry to say, but you're the type of subbie that everybody can't stand. I know most of the dub shit is bad but damn dude.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:28 am

DemonRin wrote:And that's your ONLY plus now isn't it?

I could scream "DRAGON BALL GT! GOKU IS A KID AGAIN!! SUPER SAIYAN 4!! PAAAAAAAN" into a microphone with sounds of car crashes and cats screeching and Nails on a Chalkboard in the background, with my hands slamming down on a Piano without rhyme or reason.

The "Song" I'd produce would directly say "Dragon Ball" "Goku" "Pan" etc, but... it'd still be a bad choice for a theme song because it's a Terrible Song...

I dunno, that sounds about right for GT.

OutlawTorn · Post by **OutlawTorn** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:01 am

penguintruth wrote:"Dan Dan" is a good song, especially compared to "Step into the Grand Tour". I could, myself, come up with a better song than that one.

I like "Dan Dan" and absolutely hate "Step Into the Grand Tour." The GT dub music itself didn't really bother me, but I could never bring myself to willingly watch the pre-green brick FUNi dub opening.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:05 am

Raki wrote:penguintruth, that is your own personal opinion. It has no bearing in reality outside your mind. Sorry to say, but you're the type of subbie that everybody can't stand. I know most of the dub shit is bad but damn dude.

Okay I need to get this off my chest because this is getting to epic levels of retardation.

Arguing that "that's just your opinion" as a counter argument is both stupid, and also generally really bad ettiquette. I mean really, you have NO OTHER argument to make then to state the obvious fact that, in fact, you're debating an opinion? That just makes you look stupid. It's not like I'm reciting George Washington's opinion when I talk to you. Putting an "I think" before everything is EXTREMELY poor writing, and any English Professor worth their salt would have rid you of the habit of doing so in essays.

But worse then that, it's dismissive, you might as well label him and ignore what he has to say...oh wait...you did that too in the above post. Disagreeing with people is part of what makes debates and discussions lively, and I'm not saying you have to agree with Penguintruth, lord knows I don't agree with him fully. But, seriously, it's extremely rude to dismiss people because of a label you put on them, or just ignore them because it's their opinion. If you have no counter argument, or don't want to argue, THEN DON'T ACTUALLY ARGUE!

I'm not saying this because you aimed it at Penguintruth. I've yelled at him countless times in this thread over argument ethics too, but seriously people, do they not teach Socratic Logic anymore?

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:09 am

It's just he's been beating the same thing over and over. For one thing, it's different to argue straight up and down facts. But arguing over whether you like a song is sorta silly. Stuff like that is mostly opinion unless we are typing about why the song is there in the first place.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:16 am

Raki wrote:It's just he's been beating the same thing over and over. For one thing, it's different to argue straight up and down facts. But arguing over whether you like a song is sorta silly. Stuff like that is mostly opinion unless we are typing about why the song is there in the first place.

Don't be ridiculous.

Saying that it's wrong for me to argue opinions is the same as admitting you have no counter argument. You might as well hold up a white flag. You just want some little "out" of the argument by claiming, "Well, it's all relative, am I right?"

That's awful debating.

But it's not about who "wins" or "loses" here, since it's not any type of formal debate. As long as it remains a rigorous discussion, everyone wins.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:39 am

DemonRin wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
Majin Buu wrote:I agree with Penguintruth. I'm trying, but I honestly can't think of a single redeeming quality of Step Into the Grand Tour.
It's actually connected to the show it's a theme song of?
And that's your ONLY plus now isn't it?

I could scream "DRAGON BALL GT! GOKU IS A KID AGAIN!! SUPER SAIYAN 4!! PAAAAAAAN" into a microphone with sounds of car crashes and cats screeching and Nails on a Chalkboard in the background, with my hands slamming down on a Piano without rhyme or reason.

The "Song" I'd produce would directly say "Dragon Ball" "Goku" "Pan" etc, but... it'd still be a bad choice for a theme song because it's a Terrible Song...

Let's do this, I'll provide you with instrumental

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:40 am

Raki wrote:It's just he's been beating the same thing over and over. For one thing, it's different to argue straight up and down facts. But arguing over whether you like a song is sorta silly. Stuff like that is mostly opinion unless we are typing about why the song is there in the first place.

I would put forth to you any argument you make on the quality of a television show is always going to be an opinion.

Here are the only cold hard facts of this debate:

-The English dub is terribly inaccurate to the Japanese original show on purpose

-The English dub uses different music, and depending on what you're looking at may even delete or paint over scenes in order to censor them.

-The Japanese original version, is in fact, in Japanese

-The subtitled track is actually accurate

The end, there is no other facts to this discussion. ANYTHING ELSE being said on EITHER SIDE is an opinion. So what? Most of life IS an opinion, now you might argue if an opinion is right or wrong, and that's good fun times, but to demand an opinion must be fact is silly.

I won't go so far as to say all opinions are relative, I rather disagree with that sentiment, but I would put it to you that you'll never grow intellectually if you don't listen to opinions that differ with yours, if for no other reason then to further understand WHY it is you believe what you do.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:04 am

laserkid wrote: Putting an "I think" before everything is EXTREMELY poor writing, and any English Professor worth their salt would have rid you of the habit of doing so in essays.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you right here. I know that I've even put "I think" before my own posts sometimes, but that in no way compromises my skills as a writer.

The reason I use that is because I feel the need to clarify (especially on this forum sometimes) what I'm stating as fact and what I'm stating as opinion. It's a way to declare "Okay, these are my beliefs, and I am in no way forcing them upon you." Sometimes, if you don't do that, your posts can come off as pretty snobby and argument inducing. Here's an example:

"The Funimation dub of DBZ sucks."

-as opposed to-

"I think the Funimation dub of DBZ sucks."

Maybe it's just me, but there's something about the first statement that just feels wrong. As always, there are exceptions, but for the most part, I see nothing wrong with it.

Besides, saying "I believe that" or "I think" before your posts prevents people from using the "Oh, well that's just your opinion" argument because you've already stated that yourself.

But, hey, this is all just my opinion.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:09 am

If you can't separate fact from opinion, you have no business in a serious discussion about anything.

It's true, a writing professor will warn you to not overuse terms like, "in my opinion", or "I think", because it's redundant and sounds apologetic. It's weak writing. You shouldn't apologize for your opinion before you even give it. Let it be criticized after you've stated it, then debate any detractors.

Obviously, most of what is on this board, especially in a thread specifically asking for opinions, is in fact, opinion. It doesn't take a cryptologist to decipher that.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:15 am

penguintruth wrote:It's true, a writing professor will warn you to not overuse terms like, "in my opinion", or "I think", because it's redundant and sounds apologetic. It's weak writing. You shouldn't apologize for your opinion before you even give it. Let it be criticized after you've stated it, then debate any detractors.

Heh, well, I'll be weak. In my experience, people don't get offended when you mention "I think" and "In my opinion." I like trying to not offend people because it saves time and promotes respectful discussion. When there's a lot of tension, things go a little crazy (Search: "FUNimation Dragon Box").

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:18 am

Agreed with Inna. While thoughts on the internet can be just as well-organized as a thought out essay, that doesn't mean they need to follow all the RULES of an essay. I'm glad to get away from formal writing any day!

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:29 am

I'm using sentences like in my opinion too, because that's what I'm saying my opinions, since I'm not like retarded Manowar fan saying that it's like this and that's the fact and nothing else is allowed

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:35 am

linkdude20002001 wrote:
Gozar wrote:
penguintruth wrote:Looking for trouble? No, I'm looking for debate. It's why discussion forums exist, is it not? I'm assuming Mike didn't put this board here so everyone could agree with each other all the time.
What I mean is, choose your words carefully. When it comes to Dub/Subs debates there's a fine line between debate and flame war. Don't give sparks by saying that the DBZ Dub isn't DBZ. Despite the changes, the storyline it's self is the same. It's telling the same story.
But it really isn't the same. The script is very important; without it, you can't call the show Dragon Ball Z anymore. FUNimation changed the script, therefore making their own show. I don't care if the visuals are the same; Warriors of the Wind has the same visuals as Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, but Hayao Miyazaki said to just forget its existence because it was so different (and terrible).

Of course there were script changes. Anyone who's not ignorant knows that. What I mean is that the story it's self is intact. I myself view the Dub's script as somewhat of an alternate version of DBZ. Of course the original script is the correct one. There's no debate about that. The original Japanese script is the tell-all of DragonBall. But just because the FUNi version made some changes in dialogue doesn't give people the right to claim that it's "not DBZ" or of course the worst of them all "Dub fans aren't real fans."

Because here's the bottom line. Whether Goku says "Ally to good; nightmare to you" or "I am Son Goku, a Super Saiya-jin"...In the end Goku is still fighting Freeza on behalf of the murdered Namekian's and Saiya-jin. Goku still becomes an SSJ. The fight goes on just as normal and Goku defeats Freeza in the same way. Changing dialogue here and there doesn't mean the story it's self was changed.