Late DB-related question!

Mattias · Post by **Mattias** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:40 pm

So, the Canadian station (YTV) finally got around to airing the latest Martial Arts Tournament, and I noticed something strange. I'm not sure if I'm imagining this or not, but here goes:

Goku was preparing a Kamehameha blast to fire at Piccolo, but Kame Sennin tells Goku not to do it, because if he destroys Piccolo, then Kami will also be destroyed. Kuririn then jumps in and says that Kami could just be revived with the Dragon Balls.

Wait a second here!

Wasn't it mentioned later on in DBZ that if the creator of the Dragon Balls dies that the Dragon Balls themselves vanish?! So, if Goku was to destroy Piccolo/Kami, wouldn't the Dragon Balls go with them?! Am I imagining this?

So very confused.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:45 pm

I dunno how the dub handled it, but a similar thing happens in the Japanese version. Goku will address that, later (be it next episode or the episode after, or something like that... not sure... but he does).

Ginyu Taiko · Post by **Ginyu Taiko** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:46 pm

As a recall, Kami didn't disagree with Kuririn so that Piccolo would be destroyed. Although, I think it is found out later (not too sure when) that if Kami dies then the dragonballs disappear.

Mattias · Post by **Mattias** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:48 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I dunno how the dub handled it, but a similar thing happens in the Japanese version. Goku will address that, later (be it next episode or the episode after, or something like that... not sure... but he does).

Even episodes later, Kami himself tells Goku to go ahead and kill Piccolo, and reinforces Kuririn's suggestion, which was to revive him with the Dragon Balls. I probably should have mentioned that.

Ginyu Taiko wrote:As a recall, Kami didn't disagree with Kuririn so that Piccolo would be destroyed. Although, I think it is found out later (not too sure when) that if Kami dies then the dragonballs disappear.

But wouldn't Kami already know this instead of encouraging Goku to kill Piccolo?

alakazam^ · Post by **alakazam^** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:05 pm

I think what happened is that Kami lied. He didn't think that Goku would win and thought of Piccolo as a major threat, so he lied about the fact that if he/Piccolo dies, the Dragon Balls would disapear. He knew that if they knew about that, they wouldn't kill Piccolo. Goku only forgot that probably due to the intensity of the fight.

EDIT: Kami didn't care if he died, as long as Piccolo would die too. By that time, he thought of himself as a useless God.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:10 pm

It's an inconsistancy made by Toriyama himself. The manga has the same thing, but when Kami tries to kill Piccolo Goku says he can't because then Kami will die as well. Kami tells Goku to just revive him with the DBs if that happens and then Goku goes all "nuh-UHN! I know the DBs like, totally vanish if YOU die so don't EVEN go there, girlfriend!" on him.

This is the first time we find out that the DBs vanish if Kami dies. Silly, forgetful Toriyama.

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:48 pm

Kami was bluffing. Later he confesses that he lied so Son Goku wouldn't hesitate to finish off Piccolo. So...as mentioned earlier, he didn't care if he died.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:51 pm

If death wasn't a problem, why didn't he just blast himself in the face? Goku might not like that sort of interference in his match, but hey, who cares?

Besides, when Kami was going to use the mafuba, he said that it was better than killing Piccolo because he still wanted to live.

That brings up the point about the mafuba killing the user... but I think it was said at one time that namekians (or maybe just really strong people) won't die when they use it.

Space Cowboy · Post by **Space Cowboy** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:23 am

I think Kami said he was incapable of committing suicide, but that may have been a dub thing.

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:17 am

I believe he said it would be improper for him to commit suicide, therefore he needed Son Goku to kill Piccolo. I think he said (at least in the Viz translation, but again I'm packing to move this weekend so all my comics are packed away and I can't check) "It's not fitting for a god to commit suicide."

SpaceKappa · Post by **SpaceKappa** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:51 am

Then why didn't he just have Gokuu kill him instead? It would have been much easier, albiet much less exciting.

Hell, if I was a mangaka I would probably do that just because no one would see it coming.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:13 am

Goku didn't want Kami dead, he wanted to beat Piccolo and give him another chance (like he did for Vegeta).

EDIT-Sorry for the filpped scans, but they'll have to do.

Mattias · Post by **Mattias** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:27 am

I see. So the information I knew I wasn't supposed to know until much later anyway. I guess that's the price when you see DBZ before DB.

Thanks for all of your help, guys.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:13 am

Gooo...!

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:16 am

Semi-OT, what exaclty was Kami's purpose, other than being Piccolo's good side? It seems that Dende did more as God than Kami ever did.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:05 pm

Well, he probably did things, but we never knew him long enough to see them.

We see him for a chapter, Goku goes to train with him, and then it time jumps to 3 years later to the Budoukai. Kami gets trapped in the reverse-Mafuba, Goku beats Piccolo. Kami tells Goku to be the new Kami, Goku refuses.
5 years later, the next thing Kami does is takes Goku's dead body to Enma's desk. Then, he trains Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Chaozu, and Yajirobe. Then, when Piccolo dies, he dies. In the Androids saga, he fuses with Piccolo.
Not much room for him to do God-like things, when the world is always in danger, eh?

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:22 pm

Also the revealing of the Dragon Balls vanishing in the manga came about 2 months after Krillin said that. Some things like that Toriyama changed his mind about over time. For example, back during the Baba saga, Upa suggests using the Dragon Balls to bring Granpa Gohan back to life. A few years later we find out that it would have been impossible anyways.

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:44 pm

Why would that have been impossible again?

Domon · Post by **Domon** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:23 pm

Sun_Wukong wrote:Why would that have been impossible again?

Er... because Grandpa Gohan has been dead for over a year by that point.

*PINHEAD* · Post by ***PINHEAD*** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:38 pm

I'm not so sure about the whole dragon balls disappearing thing. I'm pretty sure Bulma said Son Goku wouldn't be able to detect the balls within a year. Unless I'm misunderstanding either the manga or your post.
Kami's not so much Piccolo's good side; rather, Piccolo is Kami's bad side. The original Namekian they used to be was trying to expel his own evil, so the remaining identity was who we know as Kami-sama. But now that I think about it, Kami isn't shown doing anything to really be the god/guardian of the Earth besides that one incident at the Tenkaiichi Budoukai. Sure he trains the warriors, offers advice and warnings, and gives Piccolo a power/knowledge boost, but he really doesn't do anything himself, besides that one thing I just mentioned. He was already surpassed by the end of DB.