Best villain in Dragon Ball?

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:09 pm

omegacwa wrote: I also like Recoome. I like villains that are more like "soulless killers" it really gives the reader/watcher a sense of hopelessness for the heroes.

Nappa gave off that vibe as well.

Saiyajin no Tatsujin · Post by **Saiyajin no Tatsujin** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:06 pm

On a more serious note, I'd have to say that Furiza is my favorite villain in the Z series. Second place has to go to Vegeta.

Gogeta 00 · Post by **Gogeta 00** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:14 am

There are probably a good deal of people who won't agree with me on this, but for me it is definately Cell.

Don't get me wrong, Freeza is great as well. He is unquestionably ruthless and evil, and his polite speech and calm presence are very haunting, but when the shit settled, Freeza was no more then a common power obsessed tyrant. Sure, he was great when he was the strongest warrior in the universe with no equal, his character was excellent then. But once someone surpassed him, he broke down and was revealed as spoiled and pathetic underneath all of his power. Not to say that Cell isn't guilty of this either, he clearly is once Gohan surpasses him, but he inherited that from Freeza. Freeza is far to common and cliche to me. I mean think about it, how many characters have you seen become drunk with power, lead an evil empire, and collapse. In the end, they all had nowhere to go once their power failed them.

Cell is very similar, yet very different at the same time. When Cell was in the face of defeat, he did start to whine and cry just like Freeza did. But really what can you expect from Cell? He does have Freeza's DNA in him. This is the point where people say that Cell is a complete copycat character, and is much less interesting then Freeza. What people don't seem to see is the amazing advantage Cell possesses from being created from others DNA. He knows every enemy, what their techniques are, how to use those techniques to his advantage, what their personalities and fighting styles are, and all of their strengths and weaknesses. Yes, Cell did start to freak out when he was losing to Vegeta, but he also knew how to wiggle his way out of trouble. Because he knew that Vegeta's pride was his most fatal flaw, he was able to exploit it in order to get ahead of Vegeta and become complete. To put it simply, when Cell lost his power advantage, he wasn't completely helpless like Freeza was, he thought his way out of it. The only way out Freeza could possibly think of was blowing up the planet they were fighting on. When he was broken and defeated, he did play on Goku's forgiving nature to gain enough power to escape, but rather then be smart with it and flee, he decided to blast it back, honestly thinking that he might have a chance to win.

I also like the strong relation Cell had to Goku. Kunzait summed this up perfectly on the podcast 196 thread. Goku is faced with an enemy just like him, who seeks to better himself and fight/defeat powerful foes. This led to a great build-up for a great battle. I could go into more detail on this, but I would basically just be repeating what someone else already said.

I really like Cell's back story as well. It was a very fresh and original idea. Cell's sole purpose was to be greater then any other fighter on earth, and thus was created by compiling DNA of all of earth's strongest warriors. But his creator knew that Cell could not be perfect with the power of other fighters alone, and so he created two more "perfect fighting machines" to serve as power boosts for his one grand creation. This gave Cell a little more to live for besides destruction.

Well that's my opinion on Cell in a nutshell. Agree? Disagree? Let me know what you think.

XanatosVanBadass · Post by **XanatosVanBadass** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:21 am

Pilaf. There is something about fail villains that makes me LOL.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:33 am

I've gotta go with the first truly viscous bastard in the series and say Pikkoro Daimaou, the big man himself. Yeah, big surprise coming from me, but he really is just fantastic even beyond my obvious biases. He's so different from what the cast has encountered before because he's not just mean or angry or misguided or greedy... he's just downright evil and completely batshit insane. He's huge and imposing and he actually succeeds at taking over the world, if only for a while. Gotta love that whole scene where he just waltzes into the King's Palace like he owns the place ("I am the king"), takes everyone out and grins like a maniac as he makes his pleasant announcement to the world. And the whole bit with just blowing the fuck out of Shenron, fantastic. There are other great ones but he'll always be my favorite.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:46 am

Gogeta 00 wrote:There are probably a good deal of people who won't agree with me on this, but for me it is definately Cell.

Don't get me wrong, Freeza is great as well. He is unquestionably ruthless and evil, and his polite speech and calm presence are very haunting, but when the shit settled, Freeza was no more then a common power obsessed tyrant. Sure, he was great when he was the strongest warrior in the universe with no equal, his character was excellent then. But once someone surpassed him, he broke down and was revealed as spoiled and pathetic underneath all of his power. Not to say that Cell isn't guilty of this either, he clearly is once Gohan surpasses him, but he inherited that from Freeza. Freeza is far to common and cliche to me. I mean think about it, how many characters have you seen become drunk with power, lead an evil empire, and collapse. In the end, they all had nowhere to go once their power failed them.

Cell is very similar, yet very different at the same time. When Cell was in the face of defeat, he did start to whine and cry just like Freeza did. But really what can you expect from Cell? He does have Freeza's DNA in him. This is the point where people say that Cell is a complete copycat character, and is much less interesting then Freeza. What people don't seem to see is the amazing advantage Cell possesses from being created from others DNA. He knows every enemy, what their techniques are, how to use those techniques to his advantage, what their personalities and fighting styles are, and all of their strengths and weaknesses. Yes, Cell did start to freak out when he was losing to Vegeta, but he also knew how to wiggle his way out of trouble. Because he knew that Vegeta's pride was his most fatal flaw, he was able to exploit it in order to get ahead of Vegeta and become complete. To put it simply, when Cell lost his power advantage, he wasn't completely helpless like Freeza was, he thought his way out of it. The only way out Freeza could possibly think of was blowing up the planet they were fighting on. When he was broken and defeated, he did play on Goku's forgiving nature to gain enough power to escape, but rather then be smart with it and flee, he decided to blast it back, honestly thinking that he might have a chance to win.

I also like the strong relation Cell had to Goku. Kunzait summed this up perfectly on the podcast 196 thread. Goku is faced with an enemy just like him, who seeks to better himself and fight/defeat powerful foes. This led to a great build-up for a great battle. I could go into more detail on this, but I would basically just be repeating what someone else already said.

I really like Cell's back story as well. It was a very fresh and original idea. Cell's sole purpose was to be greater then any other fighter on earth, and thus was created by compiling DNA of all of earth's strongest warriors. But his creator knew that Cell could not be perfect with the power of other fighters alone, and so he created two more "perfect fighting machines" to serve as power boosts for his one grand creation. This gave Cell a little more to live for besides destruction.

Well that's my opinion on Cell in a nutshell. Agree? Disagree? Let me know what you think.

In a nutshell?

I agree that Cell is a good villain. I disagree with your opinion that he is the best villain, since, as aforementioned, I think that Freeza is. Everyone has different opinions.
But I understand what you mean. However, when you think about it, all the villains in Dragon Ball are common power-obssessed tyrants, really. Even the weak ones. There will always be similiarities between villains. Pilaf wanted to become ruler of Earth, as did Piccolo Daimao, and when someone posed a threat to his plans, he tried to eliminate them, like Piccolo Daimao. Cell and Boo both wanted to cause death and destruction to the planet. All villains are cliche.
So, the similarities between Freeza and Cell. Both were ridiculously strong. Both broke down when someone surpassed them. Both villains had a polite and calm demeanour, but really had a cruel, ruthless and evil interior. Both liked to confirm their superiority upon those that were weaker than them. Both saw the opportunity to become even more powerful and strived to achieve it. Both were murderers. Et cetera, et cetera.

I will admit that Cell has some aspects of his personality that are different to Freeza. Of course, Toriyama wouldn't develop villains that are the same as each other and have the same motives.
What makes Cell unique in some ways is that because of the DNA from other characters, he has mixed characteristics. Like Freeza, he strived to become the strongest in the universe, as well as the fact that he is calm and collected. Like the Saiyans, he has an unquenchable thirst for battle.
Yes, Cell does possess an advantage from being created from others' DNA. He knows about characters' strengths and weaknesses, personalities, their techniques, etc. But that's not what makes Cell a good villian. Of course, every villain needs intelligence, otherwise they'd be a shit villain. Sometimes, the villian's intelligence can go astray, like Cell's mistake to bulk up a la USSJ against SSJ2 Gohan, when he previously mocked Trunks for it.

Cell was able to exploit Vegeta's weakness, so that gives him an upper hand. But both Freeza and Cell were helpless when they lost their power advantage. Just because Cell knew all about the other characters, it doesn't mean that he could wriggle his way out of any sticky situation. Both Freeza and Cell tried to destroy the planet they were on to prevent their defeat at the hands of Goku and Gohan respectively. Both of them did have other options though, but those options were last-resort options. Freeza had his 100% which drained his stamina, Cell had his "USSJ"-esque transformation which reduced his speed.

And with the Freeza blasting Goku after he had given him a chance to flee with it, who's to say Cell would've done any different? Freeza was angry that Goku had damaged his pride, and he seemed as helpless and pathetic as a baby. He lost his temper and idiotically attacked Goku because he couldn't stomach the fact that he had lost and Goku wasn't killed by him. Cell would do the same in that situation.

I do like the fact that all Cell wanted was to have fun. He didn't want the clished objective of "take over the world". He didn't have an ulterior motive, and while some people might say that's boring, I think it's quite original to have a villain who you don't exactly know why he's doing this. He was programmed to kill Goku, yet he didn't try to do that in any way whatsoever. He wanted to cause fear and see the terrified looks on people's faces. That's different to what Freeza's motive was.

Overall, both Freeza and Cell are great villains in Dragon Ball. Neither are completely original, but both have interesting aspects to their personality. Cell's my personal third best villain, anyway, so I wouldn't condemn anyone who thinks Cell is the best villain, since that's their opinion. There are a lot of good villains, like Vegeta, Cell and even Fat Boo, but Freeza's my personal best.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:22 pm

Gogeta 00 wrote:/Big long rant about Cell/

I like and agree with this.

Plus, Cell had such a cool personality in his complete stage, and early on he seemed like something out of a horror film. He's just...great.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:58 pm

I pretty much agree with everything said about Cell. Another thing I like about him is his calm nature brought on by his arrogance.

mysticgoten · Post by **mysticgoten** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:53 am

Hmm...this is hard.
I got it!
Cell. 'Cause he's so...I don't know, calm, yet arrogant.
And even when Gohan goes SSJ2 he still has another trick up his sleeve.
He even killed Goku(Kind of).

kenshiro87 · Post by **kenshiro87** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:19 pm

1 Fûriza
2 Cell
3 Béjita ( at the begining )
4 Buu
5 Taô Pai Pai

Sshadow5001 · Post by **Sshadow5001** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:28 pm

Broly... Just kidding (Don't shoot me)

Freeza makes a pretty cool villain but everyone knows a brainless villain is a dangerous 1 so i vote Kid Buu

Shigeru · Post by **Shigeru** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:32 pm

King Piccolo. He can blow up stuff.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:34 pm

Vegeta, for being the toughest motherfucker around. He has no cheap-ass regeneration like Cell and Buu, and no "no-one could survive that much dust!" moments like Freeza. He's just fucking tough enough to tank a KKx4 Kamehameha, a Spirit Bomb, a sword slash across the back and a giant monkey falling on him.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:31 pm

Rocketman wrote:Vegeta, for being the toughest motherfucker around. He has no cheap-ass regeneration like Cell and Buu, and no "no-one could survive that much dust!" moments like Freeza. He's just fucking tough enough to tank a KKx4 Kamehameha, a Spirit Bomb, a sword slash across the back and a giant monkey falling on him.

Not to mention him surviving Bulma. Yowza.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:37 pm

Duo wrote:
Rocketman wrote:Vegeta, for being the toughest motherfucker around. He has no cheap-ass regeneration like Cell and Buu, and no "no-one could survive that much dust!" moments like Freeza. He's just fucking tough enough to tank a KKx4 Kamehameha, a Spirit Bomb, a sword slash across the back and a giant monkey falling on him.
Not to mention him surviving Bulma. Yowza.

So that's where he got all those scars.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:16 pm

Brawly. He's so nice and kind... until that stupid Kakaratto shows up and ruins things!

Mountain · Post by **Mountain** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:52 am

Dodoria.

Sprite Satan · Post by **Sprite Satan** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:28 pm

I like Ginyu. I find him a strange mixture of traits. He's a goofball, like the rest of the Ginyu Special Corps but he also has an edge to him.

He has the slightest sense of personal honour and integrity. He refused to let Jheese interfere in his fight with Goku, for example. But he also wasn't above switching bodies with him when the time was right. The inherent mystery surrounding what previous bodies he may have had also intrigues me.

Ginyu also appears to be legitimately loyal to Freeza, which is something I find very interesting. Everyone else seems to live in fear of Freeza and half the subordinates Vegeta killed on Namek seemed to try and offer an alliance against Freeza at one point or another but Ginyu seems to, if not like, then certainly respect Freeza's rule at the very least.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:44 pm

Piccolo Jr. Yeah, he was just a miniature Piccolo who, while more powerful, was definitely not as evil. I like him mostly for how he and Goku interacted with each other throughout the tournament and how their fight went down. Piccolo Jr. had more sinister plans than Tenshinhan but he wasn't as much of a complete villain as his predecessor or someone like Freeza. He was a bit of a mix between a "Kung Fu movie" kind of villain and a supervillain and I really like that kind of thing.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:55 pm