If you watched Z first, how did it affect you?

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:21 am

For those of you who started off on DBZ, how did it affect you? Many times it's said that a person just starting with Dragonball should start at the very beginning so that when the Z stuff starts happening you already have an attachment to those characters and what happens to them makes a ton more sense or has a larger emotional impact.

Well, some of us don't get that luxury, so, assuming that you started at the beginning of Z, what did you feel in, say... the Saiyan arc when good guys were dropping like flies or when Piccolo died protecting Gohan or whatever?

Even if you started elsewhere in Z, go ahead and tell your story anyway when something big happened that might've had a larger impact on someone with more background.

As for me, when watching Z, I don't remember how Goku being killed affected me. However, I do remember most of Gohan's training and I really liked watching him grow. The real impact came when the battle against the Saiyans started. All the deaths from Vegeta killing the first Saibaiman through Tenshinhan's death all hit me really hard from the perspective that I've never seen anything like it in American animation before. I was surprised that they got away with it, even with the obvious "Next Dimension" dance they were doing to get around it.

With Piccolo's death, I knew from seeing Movie 1 and with how Piccolo had generally acted throughout the series to this point that he was someone you didn't wanna mess with. I didn't know that he was the all-out villain before that point, but I knew that he wasn't very friendly and preferred being alone. So, him going from this ass who left Gohan in the wilderness for six months, spent another six months beating him up, and then stood there and yelled at him a lot during the Saiyan battle suddenly giving his life for him was probably the closest thing to a death where I was actually attached to a character as well as at least partially understanding what it meant for him to give his life.

So, yeah, their deaths did make me go, "Holy crap!" but not in the same way as a fan who was there from the beginning.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:38 am

Well, it spoiled a lot of the story for one thing. I'm just glad that there are still things I don't know about the original Dragon Ball, because I'm just now getting around to watching that.

As for character deaths, well, let's just say I never questioned things as a kid... I took everything at face value, and never questioned things, even if I didn't understand. All I knew was the characters "died" and that was how it was. I was a very indifferent child!

So many things I watch now from my childhood, just to see how stupid I was. One example of this was of that "ramp" in The Pagemaster. I didn't question it, or think anything of it or that it might possibly be a tad obsurd, I just knew it was there and that it was supposed to be "intimidating," so I took it as such.

I also liked "The Next Dimension" because I thought that since it was Dragon Ball Z, and that it was what it was, that it was just a "cool" way of saying that afterlife...

I was the dumbest person in the world as a kid.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:44 am

I didn't START with Z, but I only had the first 13 episodes of DB before I got to Z, so for a vast majority of the cast I was confused as hell as to why I should care they were dying. Goku and Yamcha's deaths hit me pretty hard due to my previous experiences with them, and Piccolo managed to make me care because of what he did within Z that I had seen. Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu's deaths meant very little to me, I knew I should care, but I just wasn't attached to them yet.

These days all of their deaths in the Saiyan arc are terribly emotionally effective to me, but I've since seen all of DB.

jda95 · Post by **jda95** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:02 am

I was only one when the series started on TV here, so I didn't start from the beginning. I think my first DB memory was sometime in the Cell arc, possibly Goku dying. I didn't really get affected by the deaths. I just went "whoa".

But when I officially became a "fan" of the series, and I got the chance to start from the start, I took it.

SHINOBI-03 · Post by **SHINOBI-03** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:08 am

I started with the original of course when it was dubbed in Arabic.

And when it jumped midway to Z, I got a lot of question marks about some the characters who appeared to have some sort of back history with the other characters that I know. ((Like Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Chaozu and Yajirobe)).

And when I don't know the back history of them when it's explained already in earlier parts, I get annoyed.

Thankfully, I became familier with them by reading the manga.

Sshadow5001 · Post by **Sshadow5001** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:46 am

When I started watching it on cartoon network I assumed Z was the beginning and Dragonball was created after (I was young

)

I think i really started getting into the series when Funimation picked it up around the middle of the Ginyu saga, everything before that was just watching because it was on, I had to rewatch the Beginning of Z after Future Trunks.

my first impression of Dragonball was, WOW.... Goku can't keep his clothes on?.... meh its not the same as Z.

I kept watching though and now Dragonball is my favorite just above Z and now have a full understanding of the series as a whole.

Rami · Post by **Rami** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:08 am

YEARS upon years ago... late 90s, I guess, my brother had somehow acquired a pirated sub of DBZ on VHS. I was terribly disinterested in the show but on this particular night I sat down for an episode.

My earliest recollection of it has to be Trunks' death during the Cell Games. Vegeta's reaction had me sympathizing more with the characters, and going "Oh shit! He's coming back, right? RIGHT?"

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:00 pm

Starting with random bits in the Saiyan/Namek arc on Toonamy, and somehow buying the "Next Dimention" blargh (coming off of Mortal Kombat, the X-Men TAS, Etc, so the possibility that I was being blatently misled didn't occur to me for quite a while... )... Eh.
I think I answered questionmark#1 with that parenthetical explaining questionmark#wasn'tasked...
Nyeah. The first death that had an impact was Kid Buu blowing up the Earth. I actually stopped reading a "list of deaths" guide on the internet before I got to that episode when I found Gohan's name there, I think somehow hoping that'd make it less true...

Having gone back through the entirety of DB... Eh, I dunno. Kuririn's death at the hands of Tamberine was impactful... Kamesen'nin sorta...
Somehow I just don't want to hear the Saiyan arc with the FUNi voices, and since I can't read subtitles I'd either be too distracted by people reading them to me or trying to make sense of the Japanese to be effected that way. T.T
I don't think it was until Hughes in FMA and/or the last two Harry Potter books that I was having a noticeable emotional reaction to fictional character deaths.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:02 pm

As I've said before, I was introduced to Dragon Ball Z before I began watching Z, so I knew the basic order of things.

When I began watching Z, I knew that Piccolo was Goku's archenemy and everything from DBZ video games and magazines. I didn't know how and why he came to become this villain, but I pretty much ignored it.
I don't know how it affected me, really. I was young at the time, maybe eight, something like that, but when Goku got killed, it didn't make me gasp or yell "NO! NO! GOKU'S DEAD!" 'Cos I knew about the Dragon Balls and that he would just get brought back to life anywhere. Maybe that's because the point Kendamu said, I hadn't grown an attachment to the characters of the series because I didn't know about Dragon Ball (or at least, very little).

But anyway, characters' deaths don't really affect me or provoke a reaction like others because I just took it at face value, like I would a character's death in a film. I mean, DBZ isn't an emotional show. Chaozu dying didn't affect me, although I guess the fact that I immediately disliked Chaozu from Tenshinhan's battle with the Saibamen contributed to that fact. (I don't dislike him as much anymore). Yamcha...Yeah, I thought he was pretty cool. Like I said, it didn't provoke a reaction, it was just like "Yamcha got killed. Crap." Piccolo provoked a little more of a reaction, because if you had seen that for the first time, you would be "WTF?", as it's completely unexpected. I knew what would happen, because EVERYTHING was spoiled for me, by then.

So, as a conclusion...Yeah, I suppose, had I read/watched through Dragon Ball before DBZ, I would've felt a bit more while watching Z. The manga solved everything for me anyway.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:21 pm

it didn't affect me in any way......

Saiyajin no Tatsujin · Post by **Saiyajin no Tatsujin** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:56 pm

When I sat down and actually watched my very first episode of Z, it made absolutely no sense to me what was going on, but the action made me an instant fan.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:25 pm

It didn't affect me. I'm the type of person where even if I know exactly what's going to happen before I watch it, I still expect something else to happen once I actually do watch it.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:36 pm

I saw DBZ first when it was in syndication and had no idea who most of the characters were or their relation to each other. The friend of mine that got me into the show could only explain so much, since he hadn't seen the original series either, but I sort of worked off the basics until I found more information on the internet.

I was pretty blown away at some of the stuff I found on the internet later on about the previous series. Goku had fought Tenshinhan in a tournament as a kid? He launched himself through Piccolo? The Piccolo I know now is the offspring of that one? It took Goku three tries before he won a tournament? Chi-Chi was once a soft-spoken girl who Goku promised to marry because the thought marriage was food? Woah. I have to see this show.

Eventually, I did see the original series, and it informed a lot of my opinions of the Z material, as when I watched that material again, it was with a renewed understanding and appreciation of the characters' histories.

Piccolo Daimao wrote:DBZ isn't an emotional show.

I have to disagree with that. DBZ is nearly all about emotions. They're perhaps not well-informed emotions at times, and the emotions come into a world where death has much less meaning than in ours, but it is actually a very emotional program.

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:46 pm

Seeing and knowing about Z before I ever had the chance to watch the original changed the series a lot for me, if only because I went into it thinking it was a sci-fi show.

Though I can never truly go back and have that first experience reading it from chapter 1 on, I have read the series from start to end a few times now. Had I actually gotten into the series before Z started, I sincerely believe I'd have dismissed the fantasy series jumping to sci-fi, trivializing the majority of the supporting characters, turning the principle character, his arch-rival and God into aliens and moving the setting into space as utter, shark-jumping bullshit.

But now that's just Z to me. It's the series. I knew that before I ever saw it so it never bothered me.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:04 pm

MisterFlashdude wrote:Seeing and knowing about Z before I ever had the chance to watch the original changed the series a lot for me, if only because I went into it thinking it was a sci-fi show.

Though I can never truly go back and have that first experience reading it from chapter 1 on, I have read the series from start to end a few times now. Had I actually gotten into the series before Z started, I sincerely believe I'd have dismissed the fantasy series jumping to sci-fi, trivializing the majority of the supporting characters, turning the principle character, his arch-rival and God into aliens and moving the setting into space as utter, shark-jumping bullshit.

But now that's just Z to me. It's the series. I knew that before I ever saw it so it never bothered me.

I can totally see where you're coming from, but I would've had the opposite reaction going from fantasy to sci-fi. I've always had a thing for religious and mythological stuff being given scientific historical explanations like the archaeological site at Gobleki Tepe that may be the place later to be known as the Garden of Eden in the Christian Bible.

So, Kami, Piccolo, and Goku turning out to be aliens and all that other stuff that was introduced (like measuring Ki with Scouters) was a really cool jump that I would've appreciated more if I had read from the beginning of Dragonball without knowing anything about Z.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:41 pm

....to extend my answer. I known Dragon Ball a long long time before, because of german TV channel, but got always bored o hell, because I was waiting to watch Digimon and Sailor Moon. I was ten years old))))

Then when I saw DBZ, Boo saga on different TV channel, I never thought it's the same show until I saw opening and that its called Dragon Ball Z, so I returned to watch Dragon Ball and with switching between channels, I saw all the DB, DBZ and DBGT series in French, German (not GT) and Japanese dub broadcasted on TV channels, it took me 5 years....

Also saw about 2 episodes of the infamous Saban dub on Cartoon Network, in this region a while after midnight, but I tought it was terrible and those French, German and Japanese dubs were far superior.

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:45 pm

Kendamu wrote:I've always had a thing for religious and mythological stuff being given scientific historical explanations like the archaeological site at Gobleki Tepe that may be the place later to be known as the Garden of Eden in the Christian Bible.

In real life, I do appreciate that sort of thing. But when the story starts out with dinosaurs, fotune tellers, and demons, I'd have found it really jarring to be thrown into space.

Maybe it's the transition. It's not... smooth. It's not hinted at. It's just all of a sudden, "Hi, I'm your brother from space" and shit just hits the fan from there.

Hao_Kaiser · Post by **Hao_Kaiser** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:46 pm

My first recollection of the series is the scene of Vegeta and Nappa initially landing on Earth... But then I don't remember anything else until Goku had already been wished back to life by the dragon balls and was confronting Nappa, so, in essence, the deaths of Goku, Yamucha, Tenshinhan, Chaotzu, and Piccolo had no effect on me because, quite frankly, I didn't see them until well after I already knew they were coming and how they would be brought back to life (to provide you with some context as to where I'm coming from, the first time I saw the first episode of the Ocean dub was sometime around when the Cell arc was airing on Toonami, and even then, I didn't see the rest of the Saiyan arc in any form until I got the first orange brick back in 2007, so it wasn't until just recently that I actually saw any of these deaths).

I wasn't aware Goku had ever died, and I didn't know anything about the other characters, because I had never seen them before. Like I said, I had only ever seen that one scene with Nappa and Vegeta, and then nothing else until Goku beat the crap out of Nappa. I didn't even know those other characters existed.

Beyond that, since Piccolo was more-or-less "Uncle Piccolo" for the rest of the series, I never saw him as Piccolo Daimou, and so, upon learning that he had initially died saving Gohan, it just made sense to me. For all I knew, he had always been that way.

I will say that Goku's second death to transport Cell off of Earth did surprise me, because that was the point in the story at which my cousin had become disinterested in the series, and had stopped throwing spoilers at me, and I absolutely didn't see it coming. I imagine my response was similar to when Optimus Prime died in the The Transformers movie, and I can only assume that if I had seen the first death the way Toriyama "intended" that I would have been just as upset.

Seeing the original series, however, was invigorating, and captivated me more than Z ever did. I got to see it from the beginning, and actually see how things came to be, and even though I'll concede that it's a backwards way of seeing things, I considered the original series to be a prequel. Sure, I knew that, more or less, everyone was going to make it out alive (sans-Lunch, since she's hardly in Z to begin with, let alone the original dubs of seasons one and two), but it was still really neat to see it unfold. It was sort of like reading The Hobbit after I read the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Or seeing the Star Wars prequels after seeing the originals (except, in this case, the "prequel" didn't absolutely suck). I'll admit that those aren't perfect comparisons, but, all the same.

Oddly enough, Kuririn and Roshi's deaths still surprised me, since I wasn't aware they had ever died, and especially not at the hands of Piccolo's father.

... I really hope that any of what I just typed made any sense at all...

At any rate, I don't necessarily regret not getting to see the series in it's intended order. It would have been neat to experience it from the beginning, admittedly, but I think, tonally, DragonBall and DragonBall Z are different enough that they can sort of stand alone, especially after that rocky start (once Yamucha, Tenshinhan, and Chaotzu become borderline irrelevant, and Piccolo completes his character arc, and newer characters begin to replace the older cast).

I can't imagine being introduced to any other series this way, though... Like, if I had started Gurren Lagann after the time skip, instead of from the beginning (I know, not a perfect comparison, but Gurren's two halves are also sorta tonally different, and the later part has things happen to characters that you wouldn't care about unless you were with them from the beginning).

God, this post has been long and awful. I completely apologize. This is what procrastinating on a paper does to you, folks.

obiwan23s · Post by **obiwan23s** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:09 pm

I was able to read the comics up to the point where Z started and then eventually did watch the show, but by that point I'd already seen the Saiyan saga. It's something I wish I could go back and do again, but knowing the full story now, those moments mean a lot more. This weekend when I rewatched the Saiyan saga on the Dragon Box, I took a more serious approach to those episodes since it'd been a while since I'd seen them anyway. I have to say though, Piccolo's death is a pretty powerful scene though when you keep in mind that he's still a bad guy at that point. It is a big effing deal that Piccolo died to save Goku's son of all people, and I'm sure anyone who goes to Z first without Dragon Ball is going to miss out on that.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:10 pm

obiwan23s wrote:I was able to read the comics up to the point where Z started and then eventually did watch the show, but by that point I'd already seen the Saiyan saga. It's something I wish I could go back and do again, but knowing the full story now, those moments mean a lot more. This weekend when I rewatched the Saiyan saga on the Dragon Box, I took a more serious approach to those episodes since it'd been a while since I'd seen them anyway. I have to say though, Piccolo's death is a pretty powerful scene though when you keep in mind that he's still a bad guy at that point. It is a big effing deal that Piccolo died to save Goku's son of all people, and I'm sure anyone who goes to Z first without Dragon Ball is going to miss out on that.

I was waiting for you Obi-wan, the circle is now complete.......

Damn it's deep night