Episode #0198 (22 November 2009)

[MCDaveG]

Just to add to that but I'm sure many/most of the countries in Europe have their own way of saying "z" that may not be "zed" or "zee" since there's only one country in the fifty that make up Europe that speaks English. For example, Italians pronounce PC like "pay chay" rather than "Pee see".

Here and in all other countires it's Zet in Spain it's Bola de dragon or bola de drac zeta....... And in France it's pronounced like Drahghon Bool

Italians are weird in everything, but the food is okay)))))

For that music, you're kinda picky, I think it sounds okay with it's classic score, try to imagine it with Black Sabath for example

[samuraigundam]

I do acknowledge that the use of music in the US version was pretty heavy-handed and that it, going off memory, was pretty limited in its emotional scope compared to the Japanese music.

I actually think the Faulconer tracks were less chessy and served to ( more so than Kikuchis ) appropriately highlight the memorable action-filled and emotional moments throught the series.

On a side note, I think maybe VegettoEX's mention of how much he dislikes the English Dub during the report on Chris Ragers horrible accident and bad condition was kind of unecessary, and borderline insulting.
I respect VegettoEX, and his opinions, but it came off as sort of " I hope you get well soon, even though I think you suck " sort of thing.

[DemonRin]

My take on the whole dub track thing is...they probably should have gone with the old dub.

I mean, the thing is...who actually prefers the "dub with Kikuchi's score?" I mean, yes, it has that Japanese score that we fans of the Japanese version love, but it still has every other problem that we have with the dub. The voices and casting choices still don't sound "right." The acting still leaves a lot to be desired. The script is still riddled with inaccuracies and punched-up jokes.

My cousins, for one. They were viewers during the Faulconer broadcast days, and now having seen the Orange Bricks, profess to liking the orchestral Kikuchi score much more.

Also, One Piece Season 2 Pt. 4 has shipped, that means my Dragon Box is coming with it!!
I'm VERY excited!

[Teclo]

Also, One Piece Season 2 Pt. 4 has shipped, that means my Dragon Box is coming with it!!
I'm VERY excited!

This is totally off-topic, but I'm in the same situation only my Dragon Box is coming with One Piece Season 1 Part 2.

On a side note, I think maybe VegettoEX's mention of how much he dislikes the English Dub during the report on Chris Ragers horrible accident and bad condition was kind of unecessary, and borderline insulting.
I respect VegettoEX, and his opinions, but it came off as sort of " I hope you get well soon, even though I think you suck " sort of thing.

I was about to make a point to counter this but then I just re-read the front page news post and I kind of agree with you now. It seems really besides the point to mention an opinion on his work. This is a kind of exaggerated analogy, but it feels a bit like a headline saying "Man stabbed in home, was a terrible cook!" The article is written in a very positive and supportive tone but that one bit does seem odd in retrospect. At first I took it as a sort of qualifier; "even though we're not fans, this is still awful news to hear" but now it just sounds inappropriate.

[DemonRin]

Considering the Episode was totally awesome and explained the Dragon Box really nicely, The DBox is kinda on-topic XD

[VegettoEX]

Listening to the show and realized I pronounced "Reddo Ribon Gun" as "Gon" instead of "Goon". D'oh!

[Gogeta 00]

When you guys pronounce the letter Z as "zed" at the end of the episode, you mention that Canadians and Europeans pronounce the letter as "zed." The thing is...pretty much every English-speaking country in the world that isn't the U.S. pronounces that letter as "zed." From what I can tell, we Americans are the only ones who pronounce that letter as "zee."

In fact, you'll notice that Japan does it too; the title of the show is Doragon Booru Zetto, not Doragon Booru Jii.[/b]

As a matter of fact, I can tell you that the majority of us Canadians actually say "zee". At least we do around this area and the other provinces I've visited. I have actually never used "zed" and have heard it spoken very few times.

But hey, Canada got mentioned on the podcast, that's pretty sweet.

[VegettoEX]

But hey, Canada got mentioned on the podcast, that's pretty sweet.

I'm (apparently) French-Canadian.

Not only does that mean I'll mention the country from time to time, but it also means I get free reign to make fun of it. Just sayin'.

[Gogeta 00]

But hey, Canada got mentioned on the podcast, that's pretty sweet.

I'm (apparently) French-Canadian.

Not only does that mean I'll mention the country from time to time, but it also means I get free reign to make fun of it. Just sayin'.

Lol, it's all good, I'm not some super patriotic nut who takes offense to things like that, I realize it's all in good fun and will most likely laugh with you.

[Kendamu]

I actually think the Faulconer tracks were less chessy and served to ( more so than Kikuchis ) appropriately highlight the memorable action-filled and emotional moments throught the series.

The "cheese" is a big part of why it's so great. Dragonball is supposed to be kinda "feel-good" or "epic" in that Shounen sort of way. The warmth I get from something like a Head Cha-La instrumental or the excitement I feel during the fast-paced battle music (like when Piccolo was getting his revenge on one of Garlic Jr.'s henchman in Deadzone) has never truly been replicated in the US score.

It's not just cause it's "the Japperkneez verjun" either. Back when Shuki Levi was scoring the series and they were leaving the original music in the movies and I didn't really know anything about the Japanese version, I always wondered why they didn't use that awesome music from the movies in the TV series.

On a side note, I think maybe VegettoEX's mention of how much he dislikes the English Dub during the report on Chris Ragers horrible accident and bad condition was kind of unecessary, and borderline insulting.

I respect VegettoEX, and his opinions, but it came off as sort of " I hope you get well soon, even though I think you suck " sort of thing.

It looked to me as more of a, "We're not just saying 'Get well soon' as a formality. All opinions of the dub aside, we really mean it. Get well soon, Mark! "

[nathantheguitarist]

I'm glad to hear that everyone pretty much likes this set. Sure it has it's flaws, but they're all fairly minor.

And sorry Mike, but Kanzentai's review > Daizex's. Hujio has Dragon Box to Mini Dragon Box pictures. Therefore, he wins.

(Yes I know one's a review and one's a comparison/review, I'm just trying to evoke a bitter rivalry of death)

[samuraigundam]

The "cheese" is a big part of why it's so great. Dragonball is supposed to be kinda "feel-good" or "epic" in that Shounen sort of way. The warmth I get from something like a Head Cha-La instrumental or the excitement I feel during the fast-paced battle music (like when Piccolo was getting his revenge on one of Garlic Jr.'s henchman in Deadzone) has never truly been replicated in the US score.

It's not just cause it's "the Japperkneez verjun" either. Back when Shuki Levi was scoring the series and they were leaving the original music in the movies and I didn't really know anything about the Japanese version, I always wondered why they didn't use that awesome music from the movies in the TV series.

I love Cha-La Head Cha-La! I'm not saying that Kikuchis score wasnt good overall, or that the cheesiness did not fit, I'm only saying that Faulconers score really brought out a suitably epic feel during epic moments, whereas the original fell flat in those areas. And the same applies to certain somber moments throughout the series.

I like both scores, but in episodes such as when Goku turns Super Saiya-Jin for the first time, I prefer Fauconers music.

It looked to me as more of a, "We're not just saying 'Get well soon' as a formality. All opinions of the dub aside, we really mean it. Get well soon, Mark! "

It seemed that way at first, but as Teclo mentioned, it was an inappropriate moment to critisize his work. It ends up reading like a back-handed sentiment.

[Kendamu]

I love Cha-La Head Cha-La! I'm not saying that Kikuchis score wasnt good overall, or that the cheesiness did not fit, I'm only saying that Faulconers score really brought out a suitably epic feel during epic moments, whereas the original fell flat in those areas. And the same applies to certain somber moments throughout the series.

I like both scores, but in episodes such as when Goku turns Super Saiya-Jin for the first time, I prefer Fauconers music.

Except for the "I like the Japanese score" part of your statement, it will come as no surprise to you that I have the complete opposite opinion. I'm not gonna try and change it, though. I just wanted to throw my viewpoint out there as something to compare and contrast with yours.

It looked to me as more of a, "We're not just saying 'Get well soon' as a formality. All opinions of the dub aside, we really mean it. Get well soon, Mark! "

It seemed that way at first, but as Teclo mentioned, it was an inappropriate moment to critisize his work. It ends up reading like a back-handed sentiment.

His work wasn't specifically mentioned or criticized. The overall production he was a part of was mentioned and was stated as something they "may not be fans of." The only thing I can say from here is: It looked to me as more of a, "We're not just saying 'Get well soon' as a formality. All opinions of the dub aside, we really mean it. Get well soon, Mark! "

I guess I have to want to find negativity hidden in nice comments in order to find what you're seeing. Being a fan of the dub might help, too.

[jjgp1112]

Equating Funi fans defending the dub score to a wife defending her husband who beat her for years is such a terrible example. Mainly because of the fact that most dub fans didn't feel offended in the first place. Most dub fans could care less about why Funi added it. My viewpoint has always been that the ends justify the means.

[Teclo]

It looked to me as more of a, "We're not just saying 'Get well soon' as a formality. All opinions of the dub aside, we really mean it. Get well soon, Mark! "

I guess I have to want to find negativity hidden in nice comments in order to find what you're seeing. Being a fan of the dub might help, too.

That's exactly what I thought at first. As such, when samuraigundam said he thought it was inappropriate, I was all read to jump in and say "you're wrong, blah blah blah!" I know Mike didn't mean it in an underhand or snide way; I've listened to enough hours of him talking with Merry, Julian et al to get a good idea of his personality. I think you're right that it was a way of making it sound more familiar; adding a bit of reality into what could have just sounded like a token sentiment can really elevate it to a genuinely meaningful comment - if my friend said his TV is broken so he can't watch the tennis tomorrow I wouldn't say "Oh not, not the tennis! But I love tennis!" but rather "Well I didn't even know there was tennis on tomorrow, but I know you were looking forward to it..."

Just to sort of wrap this up from my point of view, since Mike has already made his feelings on this clear in another thread, it just came out less like the above tennis analogy and more like a newsreader saying "Barack Obama has been shot today in Washington. I didn't agree with any of his policies but this is sad news, I think we'll all agree" when he's meant to be neutral and not bleed criticisms he may have into the report. Thing is, the internet is different from that and people report things in a more personal and down-to-earth way. This sort of "personal opinion leakage" is just par for the course, I see that.

[samuraigundam]

Except for the "I like the Japanese score" part of your statement, it will come as no surprise to you that I have the complete opposite opinion. I'm not gonna try and change it, though. I just wanted to throw my viewpoint out there as something to compare and contrast with yours.

Right, I was just pointing out why I liked it, thats all

His work wasn't specifically mentioned or criticized. The overall production he was a part of was mentioned and was stated as something they "may not be fans of." The only thing I can say from here is: It looked to me as more of a, "We're not just saying 'Get well soon' as a formality. All opinions of the dub aside, we really mean it. Get well soon, Mark! "

I guess I have to want to find negativity hidden in nice comments in order to find what you're seeing. Being a fan of the dub might help, too.

Even though his specific work was not critisized, the mere mention that he does not approve of the work he was involved in is basically the same thing. And to mention his disdain at such a bad time is just awkward and off-putting.His name is Chris Rager, by the way.

Being a fan of the dub has nothing to do with any sort of judgment, nor does it mean that a dub fan is looking for any negative little thing with which to critisize their detractors - thats just silly! I've pretty much stated that I am a fan of both dubs, but prefer certain aspects of each for certain reasons, and that I respect VegettoEX, and his opinions. Truthfully, when I began reading the post I was actually glad ( though obviously sad to hear what had happened ) that VegettoEX was able to put aside his opinion to give mention to this dub actors unfortunate situation, but when I read that " we're not fans " line, it just seemed wrong.

It would be like writing a letter to your mom saying " I love you mom, and I'll be home for Thanksgiving, even though you and your family are the worst cooks I have ever known. "

XOXO

[Kendamu]

His name is Chris Rager, by the way.

I meant "Mark" as in, y'know, Mr. Satan's real name... It was an attempt at being lighthearted.

Nothing against you personally, but why does the first person to respond to my jokes always have to be the person who doesn't get it and tries to put me in my place as if I were serious?

Being a fan of the dub has nothing to do with any sort of judgment, nor does it mean that a dub fan is looking for any negative little thing with which to critisize their detractors - thats just silly!

I said "might" help. I should've emphasized it, I guess. Wasn't clear enough there. My fault. As I don't like the dub, though, the comment about "we're not fans" was something I pretty much breezed over. If it was a Kai actor this happened to and Mike said "we're not fans" then I might almost see why this looks so negative to you. Probably not, though.

Hence "maybe."

It would be like writing a letter to your mom saying " I love you mom, and I'll be home for Thanksgiving, even though you and your family are the worst cooks I have ever known. "

XOXO

No, it wouldn't. It's like saying, "Did'ja hear that so-and-so that works at such-and-such bar was in a really bad car wreck and is in the hospital? Yeah, I know I've said in the past that I don't like such-and-such bar, but that's beside the point. I really hope he recovers soon."

I don't really know how to explain this to you any other way. I feel like I'm repeating myself.

Were you around when Arabic Goku died?

[samuraigundam]

I apologize for missing the joke. I completely forgot about Mr.Satans real name.

You dont have to explain your opinion at all, I understand it perfectly. I was just commenting on your remark that English dub fans must judge things differently from Japanese dub fans, and how ridiculous that perspective is, especially since I am a fan of both. We both see it differently, but not because of something so trivial. If it had been any of DBs Japanese VAs in that post, and VegettoEX opinion would have been the other way around, I would have made the same comments.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I was around to hear about Gokus Arabic voice actors untimely death, but never caught the discussions about it.

[OutlawTorn]

I mean, the thing is...who actually prefers the "dub with Kikuchi's score?" I mean, yes, it has that Japanese score that we fans of the Japanese version love, but it still has every other problem that we have with the dub. The voices and casting choices still don't sound "right." The acting still leaves a lot to be desired. The script is still riddled with inaccuracies and punched-up jokes.

I do. With the exception of a very select few examples, I absolutely hate the Faulconer score and, seriously, would take the AB Groupe's soundtrack over it. Well, being in Canada, we sorta did do exactly that, but we also had to endure an incredibly horrid opening theme.

With the season sets, I jumped at the opportunity to watch the dub with the Japanese score and have never looked back. For me, the dub is much more enjoyable and, particularly with the revised dialogue, I don't feel the need to either mute the volume or switch it off altogether.

[Raki]

Well, to be entirely fair to the situation, that FUNimation no longer exists and hasn't since Watson left in...204? 2005? I think any retention of the 'dub score' was, of course, for some sake of 'consistency'. The Dragon Ball team (as indicated by the recent change of staff?) has pretty much been on auto-pilot sense most of the series was in the can. If the Orange Bricks go the way of the singles, and this is something I had hoped Mike and company would discuss, what will the North American fanbase look like in a few years' time without the Nathan Johnson/Bruce Faulconer/Mark Menza scores? What is this new team's plan for the series beyond this point?

If it's how the fanbase was before the Toonami explosion, I'm all for it.