Gohan vs. Dabura

[goodguy777]

With due respect, this is what SSj Kaboom did in all of my thread. Isn't that spamming too because it was not conduct in a civilized manner. At least, in civilized manner I'm saying that Dragon Ball is a gag manga because it started off as a gag but not action packed.

I made that statement as the closing comment because it was relevant to the topic, and a point that needed to be made. What you are doing now is just throwing a fit, spamming, and playing the blame game yet again. You've already been warned about this.

With due respect, before that closing comment, you keep on throwing a fit and spamming in my threads too. Saying it's "superman" or "it's a gag manga". My point is if you don't like the topic, why bother posting. All of my posts here are serious, if you will read almost all of my posts, it's all serious and not about gag.
All I'm trying to say in civilized manner is Dragon Ball is a gag manga because it started off as a gag but not action packed. Why bother in creating theories? then if you don't like it, you will instantly say it's a gag manga.

[Maphisto86]

Well I am confused though goodguy777, because this unresolved issue in the Dragonball storyline is not to be taken seriously because it is a gag-manga. Yet in your other thread about SSJ Gotenks pulling a Superman, the answer "it's a gag in a gag manga" is not acceptible to you. I am unsure as to when you approach things in the storyline as something to be pondered seriously and when you consider something can be disregarded because it was a mistake of the author or yet another funny scene. I guess it is partially relative but I am confused as to what answers you are trying to seek.

[goodguy777]

Well I am confused though goodguy777, because this unresolved issue in the Dragonball storyline is not to be taken seriously because it is a gag-manga. Yet in your other thread about SSJ Gotenks pulling a Superman, the answer "it's a gag in a gag manga" is not acceptible to you. I am unsure as to when you approach things in the storyline as something to be pondered seriously and when you consider something can be disregarded because it was a mistake of the author or yet another funny scene. I guess it is partially relative but I am confused as to what answers you are trying to seek.

That was before, but now I'm accepting the truth that it was really intended to be a gag. It only became a martial arts theme because of it's popularity of being a gag manga. Then, it become like a game in a famicon where Goku beats an army until it proceeds to an action packed manga. I want to thank SSj Kaboom for waking me up in this reality. Finally, I will now stop thinking about unresolved issue in the Dragon Ball storyline because all I have to think is that it was not really intended that way. Especially in Boo Arc, it went back to it's roots of a gag manga. It's the reason why Dragon Ball become an action packed, it's because of it's legendary roots of being a gag manga. I really love Dragon Ball, I wished Toriyama writes it again as gag manga. Now, with Buu around, Dragon Ball will rise as the greatest gag manga of all time. Thank you.

[Maphisto86]

Ahhhh alrighty. Based on how Dragonball Z was or should I say stil is presented as a "serious, action packed" shonen it is easy to assume when first becoming a fan that it was always so. After reading the manga and seeing the anime in it's entirety (mostly) I too began to appreciate the gag humor. It is not that none of the series can be analyzed, critiqued or taken "seriously" but with Mr. Toriyama and shonen in general it is a good idea to take things lightly and proceed from there.

[goodguy777]

Ahhhh alrighty. Based on how Dragonball Z was or should I say stil is presented as a "serious, action packed" shonen it is easy to assume when first becoming a fan that it was always so. After reading the manga and seeing the anime in it's entirety (mostly) I too began to appreciate the gag humor. It is not that none of the series can be analyzed, critiqued or taken "seriously" but with Mr. Toriyama and shonen in general it is a good idea to take things lightly and proceed from there.

Exactly, nothing should be taken seriously, especially the unresolved issue like the topic of this thread. Action packed and dark theme Dragon Ball was just an illusion, in reality it was a gag. A true fan that appreciates the Dragon Ball should think about this way. It's all about its root, it's all about the gag manga because the gag manga is it's roots and origin, the classic dragon ball gag manga should be love the most.

[JulieYBM]

I'm going back to the original post.

Why is it that Gohan didn't turn SSJ2 against Dabura, during their fight on the third floor of Babidi's spaceship. Surely there wouldn't have been any struggle for him had he done so.

It's clear Son Gohan could become a Super Saiyan 2 during his stand-off with Kibito. Sparks were not evident during the battle with Dabra in the comic, but also to be remembered is that the fight never reached the full climax before being cut short. Later on, during his attempts to destroy the Majin Boo shell before it could release Majin Boo, Gohan 'tries to get angry like he did seven years ago'. If Toriyama was inferring the 'beyond the beyond Super Saiyan' (or whatever he called it when Gohan showed it off to Kibito), why wouldn't he make the direct connection that it is that transformation Gohan cannot achieve without his old anger. Furthermore, during the battle with Kibito, Gohan doesn't appear to be angry anymore from Videl's beating, and yet he speaks as if his Super Saiyan 2 is something he can willingly call upon. With Kuririn and Piccolo a hundred yards away, turned to statues by the monster standing in front of him, why wouldn't he try to kill him, espicially with Super Saiyan 2?

In the end, one can really only chalk this up to lazy and/or unclear writing on Toriyama's part, something the Daizenshû might have tried to patch by claiming Gohan was in fact using his Super Saiyan 2 state, thus not making the form dependent solely upon being in a Cell Games mindframe again.


I really don't see what else there is to discuss.

[Miracles]

Why is it that Gohan didn't turn SSJ2 against Dabura, during their fight on the third floor of Babidi's spaceship. Surely there wouldn't have been any struggle for him had he done so.

The Daizenshûu [official data books] written by Toriyama's staff with Toriyama's approval says Gohan did use Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura.

[Rocketman]

The Daizenshûu [official data books] written by Toriyama's staff with Toriyama's approval says Gohan did use Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura.

Fuck the Daizenshuu. There's no lightning at all, therefore he is not SS2.

[Dayspring]

So on-topic, inversely how strong was Dabura then? I know this question has been posed before but what does Goku's actual dialogue suggest concerning Dabura's comparison to Gohan and Cell?

It's more of an 'on par with' comment. They're equally dangerous, but Dabura could be anywhere from weaker than Perfect Cell to stronger than Super-Perfect Cell (though personally I like to think identical to Perfect Cell). It's kind of like how Radditz and Saibamen are considered even despite the former having a BP of 1500 and the latter of 1200. In other words, a difference between Dabura and Cell may exist, but whatever it is is neglieable.

[goodguy777]

The Daizenshûu [official data books] written by Toriyama's staff with Toriyama's approval says Gohan did use Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura.

Fuck the Daizenshuu. There's no lightning at all, therefore he is not SS2.

There's no lightning because it's a gag manga! It never was nor was it meant to be scientifically sound or accurate.

[Kaboom]

There's no lightning because it's a gag manga! It never was nor was it meant to be scientifically sound or accurate.

Cut it out.

[goodguy777]

There's no lightning because it's a gag manga! It never was nor was it meant to be scientifically sound or accurate.

Cut it out.

Why? It's pointless to argue with unresolved things, the best way to think of it is it's just a gag manga.

[Savage68]

Dabura could be anywhere from weaker than Perfect Cell to stronger than Super-Perfect Cell

This isn't possible, no matter how you slice it.

[MasterVampire]

I just wish that Vegeta had of fought Dabura!!

Now that would of been a great battle...............

[Godo]

I just wish that Vegeta had of fought Dabura!!

Now that would of been a great battle...............

Although Vegeta would have gone SSJ2 and punched Dabra's head off clean.

[MasterVampire]

I just wish that Vegeta had of fought Dabura!!

Now that would of been a great battle...............

Although Vegeta would have gone SSJ2 and punched Dabra's head off clean.

Yeah but it still would be sweet to see vegeta all like "hmmm I'm gonna have to go ssj2 against this SOB"

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Could Kabito's revival have something to do with it? I know it was brought up earlier in the thread but it really wasn't thoroughly looked at. Maybe anger isn't the problem but rather lack of power. When Gohan showed off at the tournament he probably went all out(which was really dumb on his part). Maybe Kabito didn't have the ability to bring his power back 100% after Gohan lost it all. Seeing as how Kabito is weaker than Gohan and the others, it wouldn't make sense for him to have the ability to fully recharge Gohan's power(after all he isn't really a Kai). If Gohan is only capable of reaching > 80%(hypothetical percent) of his power than it would make sense for him to not be a SSJ2 while fighting Dabura. That would also explain why(even though he tried) he couldn't reach SSJ2 to destroy Majin Buu's egg.

I just wish that Vegeta had of fought Dabura!!

Now that would of been a great battle...............

Although Vegeta would have gone SSJ2 and punched Dabra's head off clean.

Bought I thought Vegeta couldn't reach SSj2 until after being possessed by Babidi. Oh well I guess that's another issue all on its own.

[Savage68]

Seeing as how Kabito is weaker than Gohan and the others, it wouldn't make sense for him to have the ability to fully recharge Gohan's power

Dende in the Namek saga contradicts this.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Seeing as how Kabito is weaker than Gohan and the others, it wouldn't make sense for him to have the ability to fully recharge Gohan's power

Dende in the Namek saga contradicts this.

Dende revives health not power. Vegeta got stronger on Namiek because of the Saiyan ability to gain power after near death experiences. Gohan didn't have a near death experience, he just lost a great deal of energy.

[Savage68]

...What?

So, if what you're saying is true, whenever Dende heals someone that's in terrible condition...their health returns, but their ki remains incredibly low?