Gohan vs. Dabura

[Savage68]

SSJ 1 Gohan in the Cell games was able to have a somewhat even match against Cell without even trying because he didn`t want to fight. If he had fought he would do better than SSJ 1 Goku did and he would possibly make Cell use his full power on him while in SSJ 1.

No, he couldn't. That one hit he used drew blood, but that was it. Cell wouldn't have had to use anything near his full-power, unless you think Gohan was that much incredibly stronger than Goku.

but when Cell came back from the dead he was suddenly much stronger. But as proven by their fight, Gohan was stronger still, and had enough energy to repel him and kill him

That doesn't mean Gohan was stronger. Cell was clearly not giving his all in the beam struggle, and Gohan needed to take advantage of Cell being distracted to destroy him. Do you really think that if AT intended for SSj 2 Gohan to be portrayed as the stronger one there, he would've gave him an advantage like that?

[rereboy]

SSJ 1 Gohan in the Cell games was able to have a somewhat even match against Cell without even trying because he didn`t want to fight. If he had fought he would do better than SSJ 1 Goku did and he would possibly make Cell use his full power on him while in SSJ 1.

No, he couldn't. That one hit he used drew blood, but that was it. Cell wouldn't have had to use anything near his full-power, unless you think Gohan was that much incredibly stronger than Goku.

I don`t know about you but I think there is huge difference between a fighter who doesn`t want to fight and one that is willing to go all the way and do his very best, even if they have the same strength.

To me, SSJ 1 Goku < SSJ 1 Gohan in the Cell games.

The fact that Gohan stated that he thought that Goku was holding back, even though he didn`t have any perception of the SSJ 2 form yet and even though Goku wasn`t holding back, just helps prove my point.

but when Cell came back from the dead he was suddenly much stronger. But as proven by their fight, Gohan was stronger still, and had enough energy to repel him and kill him

That doesn't mean Gohan was stronger. Cell was clearly not giving his all in the beam struggle, and Gohan needed to take advantage of Cell being distracted to destroy him. Do you really think that if AT intended for SSj 2 Gohan to be portrayed as the stronger one there, he would've gave him an advantage like that?

Let me rephrase. Slightly stronger when he summoned all his power.

[Dayspring]

I'm confused. Are people saying SSJ Gohan (Cell Games) was NOT stronger than SSJ Goku?

Anyhoo, I still don't see any evidence besides the Daizenshuu bio that even hints at his being SSJ2. No visual artwork, people telling him to be angry (ie: to cause the transformation), Gohan thinking to himself that he can't get angry 'for some reason' (ie: and therefore not be able to cause the transformation), no reason Gohan shouldn't be able to fight someone of Cell's approximate strength in regular SSJ.

[Bussani]

Could Kabito's revival have something to do with it? I know it was brought up earlier in the thread but it really wasn't thoroughly looked at. Maybe anger isn't the problem but rather lack of power. When Gohan showed off at the tournament he probably went all out(which was really dumb on his part). Maybe Kabito didn't have the ability to bring his power back 100% after Gohan lost it all. Seeing as how Kabito is weaker than Gohan and the others, it wouldn't make sense for him to have the ability to fully recharge Gohan's power(after all he isn't really a Kai). If Gohan is only capable of reaching > 80%(hypothetical percent) of his power than it would make sense for him to not be a SSJ2 while fighting Dabura. That would also explain why(even though he tried) he couldn't reach SSJ2 to destroy Majin Buu's egg..

People have talked about this before. It's a possibility that Kibito just couldn't restore all of Gohan's power. He even comments that Gohan's power "still hasn't been completely restored", impressed at the depths of that power. However, it's likely that he was just making that comment in the middle, and went on to fully restore him.

As for the nature of Dende and Kibito's healing, there is this...

Restoration Power
First Appearance: Chapter 299
Category: ability
People: Kibito, Dende
Special Characteristics: A technique where one gives ki to bodies that have been injured or whose battle power has dropped from battle, restoring their power. With his dormant power released by Saichourou, Dende gathers the electricity-like ki from his entire body, and emits it from his hands. Kibito uses an ability he got from being born among the people of the Heavenly Realm, restoring people through a kiai that he sends into them (Daizenshuu 4, p. 50)

From Herms' Special Attack Dictionary.

[Rocketman]

If Gohan is only capable of reaching > 80%(hypothetical percent) of his power than it would make sense for him to not be a SSJ2 while fighting Dabura. That would also explain why(even though he tried) he couldn't reach SSJ2 to destroy Majin Buu's egg..

While that might explain why he couldn't go SS2 against Dabura, Gohan eats a Senzu bean before going to blow up Buu's egg.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

If Gohan is only capable of reaching > 80%(hypothetical percent) of his power than it would make sense for him to not be a SSJ2 while fighting Dabura. That would also explain why(even though he tried) he couldn't reach SSJ2 to destroy Majin Buu's egg..

While that might explain why he couldn't go SS2 against Dabura, Gohan eats a Senzu bean before going to blow up Buu's egg.

Oh yea, your right!
Well I have no idea why he wouldn't/couldn't go SSJ2 when trying to destroy Buu's egg. I guess it was all just Toriyama using circumstances to get the plot rolling.

Toriyama thought process:

I need a way to have the Supreme Ki find Buu's egg- Have Gohan go SSJ2 and then have his energy drained, then have everyone chase after Babidi's henchmen and find his location.

I need to make Gohan look like he's been slacking these past 7 years- Make it so he can't get angry and have him only fight Dabura Super Saiyan.

I need to hatch Buu- Can't let Gohan destroy the egg otherwise the stories over, Stick to Gohan not being able to get angry.

At the end of the day, That's all it really is.

[Cold Skin]

I don't think he has any trouble turning into a Super Saiyan 2, but I always naturally interpreted that he doesn't like to do so if it's not absolutely necessary.

Therefore, against Dabra, he'd rather fight just a Super Saiyan, even when having trouble, and if the battle had gone on, MAYBE he would have ended up turning Super Saiyan 2. He's not outclassed against Dabra, they're like on an equal ground, so no need to panic and transform to the next level. It's a bit like in the movies when Goku always fight for a while in normal form, and it's only when he starts to realize things are dragging on too long and he has no choice, that he transforms to the next level.

Also, considering Vegeta and Goku had fought before, maybe he wanted to show that he was still a decent warrior, only using Super Saiyan like them (though Vegeta noticed Goku had gone Super Saiyan 2 for a brief instant, there's no proof Gohan noticed anything).

Also, Gohan as a Super Saiyan 2 mostly relies on his anger I think. When he transforms into a Super Saiyan 2 at the Tenkaichi Budokai, my guess is that he barely achieves this form and has trouble keeping it, even when just standing motionlessly, because he's not angry. But then, that's a personnal interpretation and there's absolutely NOTHING that points that way.

So, here are a bunch of explanations that should do it.

[Savage68]

Also, considering Vegeta and Goku had fought before, maybe he wanted to show that he was still a decent warrior, only using Super Saiyan like them (though Vegeta noticed Goku had gone Super Saiyan 2 for a brief instant, there's no proof Gohan noticed anything).

Gohan tells Goku that he had amazing ki in the instant he won against Yakon.

[Drayenko]

He couldn't go SSJ2 when he was trying to destroy Buu's egg, so I don't agree with you...

[Savage68]

There's more evidence on the 'He could go SSj 2 without trouble, but just didn't for whatever reason' than for the other side.

[Godo]

There's more evidence on the 'He could go SSj 2 without trouble, but just didn't for whatever reason' than for the other side.

Myself I think that he had trouble going SSJ2, since it's primarly a form stated to take training to achieve, and that he had lost a kinda large amount of power since the Cell Games, and that he in the Buu saga only could reach SSJ2 when he was really angry.
Remember that when he first achieved the form, he was just slightly angry for a long time, until the death of Android 16 made him furious enough to be able to reach SSJ2.
And the only time he got angry enough in the Buu saga was when Videl got almost killed.

And then we have Goku's line where he tells Gohan to try to reach his maximum power and to get angry like he got against Cell, prior to Gohan leaving for Babidi's spaceship.

So I think that the evidence points toward him actually having trouble to transform. He did transform, but I think that his power was just about at the lower limit to be able to transform.

[Savage68]

We already saw him transform in response to Videl's beating, and he was only SSj. It doesn't make sense that he would still be angry about that, when she's perfectly fine and he's not even facing the guy that hurt her in the first place.

[rereboy]

Well, if somebody beat up my girlfriend, even if she was OK, I would be pretty pissed off for a while... And I would probably lash out at other people who had nothing to do with it.

[Savage68]

Gohan isn't irrational and is pure of heart.

[rereboy]

Being pissed off is not incompatible with being pure of heart as proven by Goku being pissed off and still being able to ride the Kintoun.

And Gohan didn`t become irrational. He didn`t attack anybody. He was perfetly rational but just still pissed off about earlier. I doubt that the feeling goes away that easily.

When I mentioned I would lash out, I was talking about me. As it is clear in the manga, Gohan didn`t last out at anybody.

[Savage68]

That entire post was ass-backwards.

[Rocketman]

Maybe he was pissed off at the smug pointy-eared bastard ordering him around? And it does, even in the manga, take him quite a bit of time to concentrate his power before going SS2. Maybe he just didn't have enough time to power up that high against Dabura and Buu's ball.

[Drayenko]

In the fight against Dabura he wasn't pissed off, he should have been because of Piccolo and Krillin being "stoned", but he didn't remember it, until after the fight ends. And about Buu's egg, why should he have been pissed in that moment?

[rereboy]

That entire post was ass-backwards.

Honestly, I don`t know why I bother talking to some users...

I was saying that it makes perfectly sense for someone to be upset for a while after seeing his girlfriend get beat up. If it was me I would even lash out at people (meaning I wouldn`t be pleasant to anyone. I would be a nervous wreck. But of course I wouldn`t harm anyone).

Gohan didn`t lash out at people per say, but he was still pissed off which made it easy to him to transform into SSJ2 in a fight that had nothing to do with Videl or her foe.

Thats doesn`t make him irrational or does he stop having a pure heart because of that because as we saw in DB being angry doesn`t have anything to do with being pure of heart.

And if you meant I would be irrational if I lashed out at people in the way I described... I don`t think I would be very human, or like my girlfriend very much, if I didn`t.

[Godo]

And about Buu's egg, why should he have been pissed in that moment?

Gohan (thinking): "That...DAMN egg! It's staring at me! It sits there judging me, telling me I'm not up to destroying it...AND IT PISSES ME OFF!"

Seriously, has anyone thought of the irony if following Kaioshin's plan to not letting Buu to get released?
If they followed Vegeta's advice, they should have just burst in there and destroyed the egg before Buu was at his full power.
Even though he would be released, he would have been no match to even a SSJ2.