A dramatic change in Videl's character?

[Scarz]

Here's a question had on my mind since I watched the earlier episodes of the Buu saga, or for the sake of clarity, the Great Saiyaman arc. Is it me or did Videl's character seemed to change very drastically through out the Buu saga? At first she seemed to be this tomboyish crime fighter and with strong attitude (yes even a little nosy but I liked that). She seemed very tough and determined to be as strong as her father, who she thought at the time was the "strongest man in the world." She was quickly becoming one of my favorite female characters since Bulma.

But as the episodes progressed, her personality to turned a 180. She became much more quite, very passive, and she didn't seem like the strong determined character she was earlier. I use to have arguments with my friends who said that Videl's personality remained consistent throughout the saga. Other fans believed that she went through some form of character development and realized that she was already stronger than her father and therefore stopped training.

Personally, I believe Toriyama had created a great female character with a lot of potential, but after all the Super Saiyan 3, Buu, Majin Buu, Majin Vegeta, Kid Buu, Gotenks, Vegetto, death, afterlife, mystic Gohan, spirit bomb, exciting cluster fudge that was the Buu saga, she was forgotten and became quickly insignificant. And therefore lost all personality she was given earlier in the story. She went from being strong, determined, nosy, and tomboyish character to Passive, shy, and bland cardboard cutout. Even in the Jump 10th Anniversary special, her bland character remains the same.

I've been told that I'm wrong about Videl but now I'm asking other fans of the show (and the character) if you noticed any change Videl's personalty from the moment she was introduced to end of Z?

[MasterVampire]

Maybe being exposed to Goku, Vegeta, Buu etc.. she felt really out classed.

[Bussani]

I think that she did change to an extent, but this could be a result of the story not really focusing on her as much.

I suppose there's also the fact that she was getting bombarded by all this weird stuff in a very, very short amount of time. She'd just learned to fly, and then there's these people with halos breaking strength testing machines and generally acting very weird with each other; showing no interest in watching their friend fight the great Mr. Satan; not seeming to care that their 7-year old just beat a 14-year old with ease; oh, and the giant, wish-granting dragon that everyone treats like a completely mundane buddy. Then she meets god, and he's a little green guy.

I think by that point she just kind of gave up. Anyone would be humbled by all that.

[Scarz]

I think that she did change to an extent, but this could be a result of the story not really focusing on her as much.

I suppose there's also the fact that she was getting bombarded by all this weird stuff in a very, very short amount of time. She'd just learned to fly, and then there's these people with halos breaking strength testing machines and generally acting very weird with each other; showing no interest in watching their friend fight the great Mr. Satan; not seeming to care that their 7-year old just beat a 14-year old with ease; oh, and the giant, wish-granting dragon that everyone treats like a completely mundane buddy. Then she meets god, and he's a little green guy.

I think by that point she just kind of gave up. Anyone would be humbled by all that.

But Bulma had her fair share of weirdness and semi gods, at an early age even, and she haven't changed at all. She did change a bit but when she grew up. Hell even during her middle age she still had quite a bit of attitude left. None of the female characters (or any other human character really) personality change so much like Videl's. True that most characters realized that they were greatly out classed by Goku and the other Saiyans but their personality was still there. They were useless yes, but not entirely different.

[Bussani]

I have a counter-question for you, Scarz: if you could rewrite Videl's later scenes, which parts would you change and why?

[Rocketman]

But Bulma had her fair share of weirdness and semi gods, at an early age even, and she haven't changed at all. She did change a bit but when she grew up. Hell even during her middle age she still had quite a bit of attitude left. None of the female characters (or any other human character really) personality change so much like Videl's.

No other human character was in her position, though. Every other human character eased into the weirdness or in some cases was outright born into it (ie, ChiChi). There's a couple of hours between her meeting the Z fighters (and the dead guy) and Goku shaking the whole damn planet with SS3.

I don't recall any major change in her personality, but then she's really not in much of the manga. The last thing I recall her really doing was stubbornly insisting Gohan was alive. I think she gets an embarrassed 'Oh, dad...' line when Hercule helps with the Spirit Bomb by being DA CHAMP OHHH YEAHHH, too, but for the most part she's barely in the Buu Saga to have a personality.

[rereboy]

Maybe being exposed to Goku, Vegeta, Buu etc.. she felt really out classed.

This and she also fell in love with Gohan.

[Maphisto86]

Well for a in-universe explanation I have to agree that Videl's sudden introduction to the amazing powers of Gohan and his friends (and enemies) was a real shock. Videl also mellowed out a bit as love tends to do that to people . . . although I agree with Scarz that I think she mellowed out too much. That bring's me to the main point of my real life explanation. For all his great storytelling abilities, one of Akira Toriyama greatest writing flaws is putting once major female characters on the back burner. While his series is shonen, it is still sad to see such interesting characters so often turned into "the wife" and put aside. This is what happened to Videl although I think she still has that tough attitude especially concerning her father in the latest TV special.

Oh and GT's depiction of her does not help either! Still despite the "wife effect" Videl is one of my favorite female characters of the series.

[Scarz]

No other human character was in her position, though. Every other human character eased into the weirdness or in some cases was outright born into it (ie, ChiChi). There's a couple of hours between her meeting the Z fighters (and the dead guy) and Goku shaking the whole damn planet with SS3.

I don't recall any major change in her personality, but then she's really not in much of the manga. The last thing I recall her really doing was stubbornly insisting Gohan was alive. I think she gets an embarrassed 'Oh, dad...' line when (the H-word) helps with the Spirit Bomb by being DA CHAMP OHHH YEAHHH, too, but for the most part she's barely in the Buu Saga to have a personality.

I got to admit you got me beat there. Videl wasn't in manga as much as she was in the anime. So maybe she wasn't given enough time to allow her character to be expanded upon.

Oh and GT's depiction of her does not help either! Still despite the "wife effect" Videl is one of my favorite female characters of the series.

Almost every character seemed to have gone through a frontal lobotomy during that series and was pushed aside in the background behind Goku and Pan.

[Gaffer Tape]

This is another reason why I'm so upset that Gohan's time in the limelight was so quickly aborted to bring things back to the status quo. Videl was very obviously introduced to be a main character and something of a foil for Gohan. But once emphasis shifted back to Goku and the other superpowered characters of the series, there was really no conceivable way to keep any kind of focus on her. There was absolutely no way she could have fought on the same level with the established characters, so the only way to keep her in the story at all was to stick her at Kami's like the other 2/3rds of the cast. And, yeah, what annoyed me about that was the fact that, for once, there was a chance to have a fighting female character in the series. It does seem like Toriyama throws those opportunities away. Obviously Bulma was never intended to be that, and that's fine. Half of Lunch was, but that was in the shooting guns mentality, not martial arts. Chichi originally had some of that, especially when she was reintroduced as an adult, but she was already painfully outclassed by the other main characters, and I certainly don't disagree that rewriting her as an overbearing mother was an improvement. #18 could certainly have been that character, but just like Videl, they plopped her down at Kami's, and that's all there was to it. So, really, there were two fighting female characters that were totally wasted in the Buu arc, and for #18 it's even worse since she surely could have conceivably put up something of a fight. It's certainly in character that she would have stayed at the Bukokai for the money, but once that was over, and there was a genuine threat to earth, there was absolutely no reason for her to have sat on her ass and get killed.

[Bussani]

It's certainly in character that she would have stayed at the Bukokai for the money, but once that was over, and there was a genuine threat to earth, there was absolutely no reason for her to have sat on her ass and get killed.

Even Gotenks got his ass kicked when he went to fight Buu for the first time. I'm not sure what #18 could have done. There's a difference between being brave and just plain suicidal.

[Rocketman]

but [ChiChi] was already painfully outclassed by the other main characters

No she wasn't. She was 130, Yamcha at the beginning of the Saiyan saga was 177. Her being rewritten into an Ubermama shortcircuited her growth as a fighter.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm not going to question whether or not that battle power is accurate. I'm going to assume it is. But based in context from what we see at the Budokai, she is entirely outclassed by everyone else. She is beaten by Goku almost instantly. When Goku is fighting Tenshinhan, Yamucha and Kuririn can barely follow their movements, but Chichi is completely unable to. And when Goku is fighting Ma Junior, only Yamucha, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Kami-sama attempt to interfere. All Chichi can do is yell, "Goku-sa!" ad-infinitum (granted, she's really only that obnoxious in the anime). Dragon Ball Rule #16: Any and all supporting characters who are introduced who aren't at least able to rival the main characters in power will quickly be reduced to background status.

[Senzu_Bean]

"True that most characters realized that they were greatly out classed by Goku and the other Saiyans but their personality was still there. They were useless yes, but not entirely different.

Say that to Tienshinhan! After witnessed Super Saiyan Goku he became brain damaged or something.

The Tienshinhan we all know wouldn't go train to the mountains with Chaotzu when he could have trained with Goku, Piccolo, etc.

[Bussani]

Say that to Tenshinhan! After witnessed Super Saiyan Goku he became brain damaged or something.

The Tenshinhan we all know wouldn't go train to the mountains with Chaotzu when he could have trained with Goku, Piccolo, etc.

Did Tenshinhan ever train with Goku? To be honest, I think it was normal for Tenshinhan to train alone. The only times he trained with others was when he was being trained by a master at the same time as them (Karin, Kami and Kaio, and he went off and trained alone after each of those).

[Olympian]

but [ChiChi] was already painfully outclassed by the other main characters

No she wasn't. She was 130, Yamcha at the beginning of the Saiyan saga was 177. Her being rewritten into an Ubermama shortcircuited her growth as a fighter.

That is from the Daizenshuu, isent it?

I cannot really agree, she was nowhere the level of anyone else there, in the Manga. For all the loss, Krillin and Yamcha took punches and kicks from Piccolo and co, Ten managed to at least put a hurt on Goku, and somehow she was 130 to Yamcha`s 177 from the beginning of the upcoming arc?

I would not even put her ahead of Chaozu.

Say that to Tenshinhan! After witnessed Super Saiyan Goku he became brain damaged or something.

The Tenshinhan we all know wouldn't go train to the mountains with Chaotzu when he could have trained with Goku, Piccolo, etc.

Did Tenshinhan ever train with Goku? To be honest, I think it was normal for Tenshinhan to train alone. The only times he trained with others was when he was being trained by a master at the same time as them (Karin, Kami and Kaio, and he went off and trained alone after each of those).

He never did, but he is correct in maybe assuming that Ten and the others fell backwards after witnessing what Goku could do, post Freeza. Yamcha turns down an invitation to train with Goku and Piccolo, Krillin turns it down to train on Kame Sama`s Island, and Ten later on turns down the invitation to train in Kami`s room.

[fktizle]

It's because she fell in love with Gohan. To us, in the beginning, she was a bit if a bitch, but that's because, in her mind, she was the daughter of Hercule. You also gotta remember that she hadn't warmed up no anyone. It looks as if she was putting up a front and once she started going for Gohan, which included her cutting her hair and changing her outfit somewhat, she started to trust Gohan and thus we saw the real Videl. That doesn't mean she can't fight or anything, that just means that she has a softer side.

[SilverPlaqueVII]

It's because she fell in love with Gohan. To us, in the beginning, she was a bit if a bitch, but that's because, in her mind, she was the daughter of (the H-word). You also gotta remember that she hadn't warmed up no anyone. It looks as if she was putting up a front and once she started going for Gohan, which included her cutting her hair and changing her outfit somewhat, she started to trust Gohan and thus we saw the real Videl. That doesn't mean she can't fight or anything, that just means that she has a softer side.

Oh I see. But after Buu's defeat, she had a daughter named Pan, even though Erasa and Videl never seen each other in 1-2 decades. More often to know that she was associated with Bulma and Chi-Chi throughout DBGT.