Super Dragon Ball Z

[Kendamu]

As everyone else said, people who grew up on the newer style of fighting games or have become extremely accustomed to the newer style of fighting games probably don't appreciate Super Dragonball Z because it goes against a lot of the conventions of modern fighting games.

No, I like classic fighting games

Is this some kind of running gag? Why do I always need to clarify my points every single time I make a statement?!

I'm not saying, "Adamant doesn't like it 'cause of this, that, and the other." I'm referring to the general DBZ fighting game fanbase who hates Super DBZ. I thought it was pretty clear to begin with.

(and I realize I'm talking about a game I haven't actually played, here),

You may realize that, but you still haven't even played it.

but Super DBZ for some reason decides to toss in some kind of "way to develop your character", which is never ever a good sight in a fighting game.

It's like choosing exactly which Super Special you're going to use in other fighting games, only more so. It isn't like your character actually gets stronger or weaker (in the vast majority of instances) and characters generally tend to start off with a respectable list of moves and a Super Special. Most of what you're doing is adding to the basic configuration and somewhat customizing your experience... which is something you can do over and over again for a character to come up with a bunch of different custom add-ons without having to "level" them all over again if you use the Dragonballs to exchange your added skills for XP.

The Budokai and Sparking games were shitty enough in the first place, but having a huge part of the gameplay be "everyone who wants to play needs to own the game, play single player a zillion hours to unlock a ton of crap, then bring their memory card with them wherever they go" ruined them completely. Then they say they're making a real fighting game, and STILL insist of tossing in this idiocy. Do anyone actually LIKE this?

Because, y'know, a memory card took so much effort to haul around, right? And, if you hate the customizing so much, you could just stick with the arcade-standard list of characters and play through the same way as anyone else... just without the extra attacks and such. You'd go through the same Arcade Mode and Survival Mode as me and get the same survival mode as me. I just choose to use the XP I gain from playing the game.

Imagine a normal fighting game for a second. You get points, right? At the end, those points go on a scoreboard if you've done well enough, right? Now, imagine what it would be like if you had the option of exchanging those points for extras in the game. Would you say, "Screw this," because they gave you the option to get new stuff for doing what you were planning on doing (playing the game) in the first place?

Also, it's a Dragonball game, which is also never a good sign if you're looking for quality gameplay instead of just "Yay, I get to play as Dragonball characters" (not that there's anything terribly wrong with that, but it would be nice to a game that's both based on Dragonball AND good for a change). And, on top of that, the American version doesn't even have the Dragonball cast, so it's not really a Dragonball game after all.

I can agree with you on the cast, but I don't see what's wrong with the rest here. There's Shotos, Charge characters, etc. There's fun stages. There are cool visuals. The music is good. The challenge is customizable and ranges from something for casual plays to downright insane quarter-eating madness. There's the option of giving characters new moves. Most characters play differently from each other. Yeah... pretty good game, really.

Or, to sum it up:
1) Fighting game with some bullshit customization system = it probably sucks
2) based on Dragonball = definitely sucks
3) but doesn't have the Dragonball cast = kills the one positive it had, leaves the negatives, and adds the one of these other voices sucking.

Other than the cast, how would you know? Did you play it? No, you didn't. At least you admit that you didn't play it, but you didn't. I'm not saying you have to play every game to know whether or not you like it either. I see games I pass on all the time. Giving a game you haven't played such horribly harsh treatment (as if you have played it) is somewhat uncalled for, though. At least I played the first two Sparking games before I decided that the series just wasn't for me.

Even if, by some miracle, it doesn't suck despite these odds, it's still not Dragonball, which means I might as well play a game I know is good that's not Dragonball either. Wee.

So, because the cast is the wrong one, it isn't Dragonball at all? I can understand if the game had some expansive story mode and they went about dubbing it wrong (like the series) but just because the cast is different in the first place?

Fuck, Dragonball just hasn't really been Dragonball since the first Kamesen'nin, then!

Way to hate on a game you haven't played for all the wrong reasons.

[Adamant]

Is this some kind of running gag? Why do I always need to clarify my points every single time I make a statement?!

I'm not saying, "Adamant doesn't like it 'cause of this, that, and the other." I'm referring to the general DBZ fighting game fanbase who hates Super DBZ. I thought it was pretty clear to begin with.

I posted right above you, and my opinion differed completely from what you said "everyone else were saying". Hence I'm clarifying, assuming you misunderstood my post. It's not more complex than that.

It's like choosing exactly which Super Special you're going to use in other fighting games, only more so. It isn't like your character actually gets stronger or weaker (in the vast majority of instances) and characters generally tend to start off with a respectable list of moves and a Super Special. Most of what you're doing is adding to the basic configuration and somewhat customizing your experience... which is something you can do over and over again for a character to come up with a bunch of different custom add-ons without having to "level" them all over again if you use the Dragonballs to exchange your added skills for XP.

Because, y'know, a memory card took so much effort to haul around, right? And, if you hate the customizing so much, you could just stick with the arcade-standard list of characters and play through the same way as anyone else... just without the extra attacks and such. You'd go through the same Arcade Mode and Survival Mode as me and get the same survival mode as me. I just choose to use the XP I gain from playing the game.

Imagine a normal fighting game for a second. You get points, right? At the end, those points go on a scoreboard if you've done well enough, right? Now, imagine what it would be like if you had the option of exchanging those points for extras in the game. Would you say, "Screw this," because they gave you the option to get new stuff for doing what you were planning on doing (playing the game) in the first place?

Fighting games that involve this type of customization limits you to using these customized characters at all points except when you're fighting a friend who a) owns the game, b) spent a hundred hours unlocking crap just like you and c) brought his memory card. It's a terrible gameplay mechanic, and there's a reason games generally don't do this.

Extras for beating the game are fine, but these aren't "extras", they're a fundamental part of gameplay. let the player spend points buying BGM, costumes, artwork, whatever, not change the characters around in order to fuck up the game balance.

Other than the cast, how would you know? Did you play it? No, you didn't. At least you admit that you didn't play it, but you didn't. I'm not saying you have to play every game to know whether or not you like it either. I see games I pass on all the time. Giving a game you haven't played such horribly harsh treatment (as if you have played it) is somewhat uncalled for, though.
Way to hate on a game you haven't played for all the wrong reasons.

I said I just "assumed" it was bad, and given that it has a checklist of flaws without anything to make up for it, I don't see how that's such a ridiculous assumption. If I want to play a Dragonball game, I'll play one that actually has the Dragonball cast, and if I want to play a good game, I'll play... a good game. SDBZ fails on the first point, and by the looks of it doesn't have much to offer on the second either, so why bother?

[Xyex]

Fighting games that involve this type of customization limits you to using these customized characters at all points except when you're fighting a friend who a) owns the game, b) spent a hundred hours unlocking crap just like you and c) brought his memory card. It's a terrible gameplay mechanic, and there's a reason games generally don't do this.

There's no reason, nor need, to create a custom character in SDBZ. You can play through both modes with the default characters. And, IIRC, the default characters were all that was available in the original arcade version (someone correct me if I'm wrong here).

Yes, you can use the EXP you get to add a few new moves (three or four), to 'borrow' a move from someone else, or to get a minor bonus boost for the character (more action bar, a Senzu, etc). But you don't have to do it to go through the game. Hell, if you don't want any of the bonuses and don't care about high scores then you don't even have to make a character card.

This isn't Budokai where all of your moves are determined by what you set to the character. Nor is it Dragon Arena where a trained character is 50x better than an untrained one. There's really barely any difference between a maxed character and a standard one.

[Hellspawn28]

I can't believe someone said SDBZ is just as bad as Final Bout? I did not think FB was as bad as most people said it was, but SDBZ is everything that FB wish's it can be if you ask me.

[Kendamu]

I posted right above you, and my opinion differed completely from what you said "everyone else were saying". Hence I'm clarifying, assuming you misunderstood my post. It's not more complex than that.

Your opinion was about yourself. I was speaking of the general opinion of DBZ fighting gamers and by "everyone else" I obviously meant "everyone else in this thread" whether it was a literla "everyone" or not. So, you still missed my point.

Fighting games that involve this type of customization limits you to using these customized characters at all points except when you're fighting a friend who a) owns the game, b) spent a hundred hours unlocking crap just like you and c) brought his memory card. It's a terrible gameplay mechanic, and there's a reason games generally don't do this.

Extras for beating the game are fine, but these aren't "extras", they're a fundamental part of gameplay. let the player spend points buying BGM, costumes, artwork, whatever, not change the characters around in order to fuck up the game balance.

But, when playing against a friend, you can play as the arcade standard characters instead of the customized ones. So, no, they're not fundamental to the gameplay and you can still play against someone else without having to go up against characters that have been boosted with unlockables.

Of course, you've never played the game... so how would you know, right?

I said I just "assumed" it was bad, and given that it has a checklist of flaws without anything to make up for it, I don't see how that's such a ridiculous assumption. If I want to play a Dragonball game, I'll play one that actually has the Dragonball cast, and if I want to play a good game, I'll play... a good game.

Again... I guess Dragonball hasn't really been Dragonball since they had to get a second actor for Kamesen'nin in the Japanese version, right?

If the English cast grinds your gears so much, turn the voices off in the options. Of course, you can't look there if you've never played it, right?

SDBZ fails on the first point, and by the looks of it doesn't have much to offer on the second either, so why bother?

So, since it offered more with the option to customize, you gave it some scathing review even though you havehn't played it. Then, when I said, "You can just go back to basics. The scary Customonster won't bite," you said, "It doesn't have too much to offer." Damned if you do, damned if you don't, right?

You can dislike the game. That's fine. You can assume that the game wouldn't hold your interest. That's fine, too. Throwing out in-depth assumptions about game mechanics you haven't even tried for yourself and painting an inaccurate picture for other potential players who might be reading this is a different matter.

At least stick to things you know about the game when you complain about it. I mean, I thought I wouldn't like the customizing when I first heard about it. I still gave it a shot, though, and realized that it's only an option and that the customizing was actually kind of fun compared to the Budoukai series or Sparing series.

[Captain-Sora]

This isn't Budokai where all of your moves are determined by what you set to the character. Nor is it Dragon Arena where a trained character is 50x better than an untrained one. There's really barely any difference between a maxed character and a standard one.

Pretty much what he said.

This game's customization isn't very flawed nor is it broken. It's not about improving a character so it can be vastly superior to another, it's more about customizing and evolving them into one you'd like to use and what kind of style you want to play them in, for example, Trunks has 3 swords, his normal one, the samurai sword and the lightsaber, if you wanted to go down the route where he can learn more skills instead of getting more strength by changing swords, you'd just stick with powering up one string of the chart where they skip out on those neat weapon changes, if you DO want those neat swords with extra strength(but not so much that they make Trunks broken), don't want to be a technical fighter and miss out on a move, you'd change swords.

In the end, it doesn't matter what the hell your end product will be, you could pair it up against another character who hasn't been tweaked one bit and it could still easily kick your ass. Customization isn't about making your fighter hacked, broken and stupid like the Sparking/Raging Blast games are, it's just about making the fighter you want to use(come on, Goku using a move like the Nappa's flame pillar is just badass).

[Sshadow5001]

I play it now and again but right now i'm playing Tatsunoko VS Capcom but if Super DBZ had online i'd challenge any of you

[Adamant]

In the end, it doesn't matter what the hell your end product will be, you could pair it up against another character who hasn't been tweaked one bit and it could still easily kick your ass. Customization isn't about making your fighter hacked, broken and stupid like the Sparking/Raging Blast games are, it's just about making the fighter you want to use(come on, Goku using a move like the Nappa's flame pillar is just badass).

Okay, it seems I had the game a bit misunderstood.
Still not touching the American version, though, and the PAL version was never on my "don't ever buy" list, I just don't have a way to play it. There are still American-released PS2 Dragonball games with the actual Dragonball cast I don't own, anyway, so I'm not really in a hurry here.
There's also Tatsunoko VS Capcom to distract me, so I'm not currently looking for a new Dragonball fighter, either.

[Xyex]

Customization isn't about making your fighter hacked, broken and stupid like the Sparking/Raging Blast games are, it's just about making the fighter you want to use(come on, Goku using a move like the Nappa's flame pillar is just badass).

Videl with the Kamehameha <3

if Super DBZ had online i'd challenge any of you

If SDBZ had had on-line play it would have likely been 5x more popular than it was.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Super Dragon Ball Z is so bad that it seriously ranks up with Final Bout in terms of controls.

This isn't even a valid personal opinion to hold -- it's flat-out wrong. The control in Super DragonBall Z is just as responsive as any other polished fighting game.

And we're not even talking whether you like the game or not. There's simply nothing wrong/delayed/lagged/unresponsive about the control what-so-ever. If you feel that way, you're either playing with a busted controller, or playing the wrong game.

I never said the controls were unresponsive or delayed, I just found it really hard to pull off combos and get the character to do what I want.

My opinion on the game is: the graphics are beautiful, the character roster is okay and the controls suck. This is my opinion on the game and just because it conflicts with your opinion doesn't mean it isn't valid.

[Rory]

Okay, it seems I had the game a bit misunderstood.

So you basically wrote paragraphs ripping on a game that you've never ever played? Wow.

My opinion on the game is: the graphics are beautiful, the character roster is okay and the controls suck. This is my opinion on the game and just because it conflicts with your opinion doesn't mean it isn't valid.

But the control don't suck, they're smooth, precise, and easy to use. You've either never played an old school fighter, or your controller is busted, that's all there is to it.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

I don't understand why people disliked that game. To me, Super DBZ was one of the best Dragonball games I've ever played. Everything from the arcade controls, the customization and the level designs. If you ask me this is how most Dragonball games should be done. My only complaint is the lack of re playability, I only tend to whip this out when a few friends come over.

[Xyex]

My only complaint is the lack of re playability, I only tend to whip this out when a few friends come over.

Yeah. I'll pull it out for the challenge of a trip or three through Z Survivor, or I'll work on training up a character for a little while, then I shelve it again and move on to something else.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

But the control don't suck, they're smooth, precise, and easy to use. You've either never played an old school fighter, or your controller is busted, that's all there is to it.

I've played Street Fighter II and that game is actually good, no problems with it at all.

[Rory]

But the control don't suck, they're smooth, precise, and easy to use. You've either never played an old school fighter, or your controller is busted, that's all there is to it.

I've played Street Fighter II and that game is actually good, no problems with it at all.

A busted pad it is then!

[HazelMystic]

Super DBZ was aimed at being more for a serious gamer, but the way it was toted was a bit of an exaggeration. It plays more like an early Street Fighter. The game balance seems much better than in Budokai, and the mechanics are more serious, so I like it!

I really wanted to like Budokai 3, but the baseline ki system created an unjustifiable game balance issue. I HAVE to have game balance to like it.

Tenkaichi 3 I liked pretty well, but they did focus too much on cut-scenes that (in my opinion) were absurd, such as General Blue's ultimate attack, in which he gets into his airplane and your character chases them... Just imagine squaring off with an opponent who cheaply pulled that attack off. Horrible!

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

But the control don't suck, they're smooth, precise, and easy to use. You've either never played an old school fighter, or your controller is busted, that's all there is to it.

I've played Street Fighter II and that game is actually good, no problems with it at all.

A busted pad it is then!

I play Street Fighter II with the same PS2 controller I use to play Super Dragon Ball Z.

[Akira]

Super DBZ was probably the best DBZ fighting game I've ever played. Not in terms of Character selection, over the top moves or anything else of that sort, there are "Better", if you will, Dragonball Z games for those seeking roster and ki blast moves first and foremost. What Super DBZ brought to the table was a classic, Street Fighteresque 3D fighting format that just happened to star Dragonball characters.

On the simple comparison of fighting game depth, variances between characters, controls, and game balance, it is leagues above any other Dragonball fighting game, period. It won't hold a candle to any other with its meager roster, and modest movesets though, if that is what we are comparing notes on.

It appeals to a certain age range of gamers, and if that's not you, it's not you. I personally can't stand the Tenkaichi Budokai / Raging Blast series. Feels like a macho ki blast spam fest to me. However, I understand that its superior roster, and free roam flight combat appeals to many.

It is a balance, for superior fighting engine and character variety, you sacrifice movement and roster size. For superior roster and freedom of movement, you sacrifice depth of battle system and variety in differences between characters. That's the fact of the matter. Depending on what matters to you most will determine which type of DBZ game you will end up preferring. It doesn't make one great and one crap, it just makes one great at somethings, and weak at others, which is flip-flopped the exact opposite for the other.

Personal preference here guys, and no amount of arguing will really convince anyone that the style of the title you prefer is better.

Now, seeing as Super DBZ was originally an Arcade cabinet title that was ported to PS2, if it showed up on Xbox Live Arcade as a downloadable with online play someday, THAT would make me want to play some Dragonball Online matches. A guy can dream can't he?