Dragonball Kai (FUNimation English) Dub: General Discussion

[Taku128]

In an ideal world, the only difference between dubs would be the language. Each audience should be able to watch a show in their native language and get the same experience the original audience got, which appears to be what Funi aims for now, and so they should.

Translation isn't the only thing that should go into a dub. There should be some localization that goes into any translation of something to make it sound more natural to Americans and to change things that only make sense in Japanese, although the amount of localization depends on what the show in question is. The Dragon Ball Z dub definitely went overboard on changing things, but they shouldn't just take the translated script and leave it at that either.

[Amigo Ten]

There's always some of that with translation though, even with grammatically similar languages. I did say "in an ideal world". An English dub should sound as natural to an English audience as the Japanese dub sounds to the Japanese audience. Something like "Krillin" might be a good example of that I suppose.

[linkdude20002001]

Hey all! So I've been neglecting this page (as was made obvious by the 109 friend requests I just confirmed- NEVER AGAIN WILL I WAIT THAT LONG), but I wanted to address something. Yes, it is true that I'm playing Gohan in the new DragonBall Kai, and yes, that does mean the previous VA will not be reprising her role. Th...is was not a mean-spirited move on the part of the director or the studio.

Nor was it due to any silly secret anime-voice-actor club, bound and determined to hoard the roles for ourselves. I wish the VA for DB and DBZ nothing but good will. I won't try to explain the many ways that the dubbing industry has changed over the years or the unfortunate fact that this means change within some of the franchises you hold near and dear.

I will just tell you that there is always a reason for any decision (casting or otherwise) made by FUNimation, and hope that you will understand that that reason may not always be clear to those outside the studio walls. All I ask is that DragonBall Kai be taken as it was intended... a NEW series, not a sequel... with ...every chance of blowing you away this time around as well. Thank you! Colleen

[bkev]

Don't think anyone's posted Mr. Schemmel's thoughts on this, so here they are.

Here's what you guys don't know, but need to. Chris Sabat has gone far beyond the call of duty behind the scenes to make this version happen in an amazing way that it did not before. He has donated much of his personal time and energy into this, and has been extraordinarily picky with the direction, as well as double checking japanese meaning ... See Moreagainst the adaptation for accuracy as well as entertainment value. If it were not for him personally, I would probably not be able to be a part of it. On a technical note, sound quality will be unmatched to the previous due to the amazing and highest quality gear available at Okratron as well as Rawly Pickens golden ears checking every single line for audio quality. It's the way it should have been done to begin with, but that's 20/20 hindsight. I am thrilled about the new cast, and no offense to my awesome castmates, but my new favorite voice for DBZ Kai is the Narrator. You're going to love it. Also, I am still awesome.

[Xyex]

Oh, I'm not really talking about the the little bits and things, like names. I'm talking about the more drastic differences in characterization that exist in some cases. Goku's non-hick-ness, for instance. Occasional familiar lines (though hopefully not 9,000 ><) and so on.

I think Sabat's going to stick to the original characterization of the Japanese script. He seems very adamant about making it as close to the original as possible without changing things like voices. He wants EVERYONE to like it, so he's giving dub fans the voices they want, while giving fans of the original the script, characterization, and amazing acting they want.

That's a possible compromise as well. Though I still feel he intends to leave characterization at least similar the dub. Goku may get some of his country-boy personality but might not talk like a redneck, for instance. Budokai 1 already had Goku spare Vegeta so that he could fight him again, instead of because he thinks there's good in him, so I don't doubt the characterizations will be much closer to the JP originals. I'm just not expecting them to be 100% the same as the JP version.

Speaking of the script, I have to wonder about language. Shall Gokû and friends be cursing?

Possibly. They did it a lot in the UUEs.

But considering they don't curse the Japanese version and this is supposed to be accurate, I wouldn't be surprised if it's absent.

What the majority of the fanbase expects =/= what the show should be like. It's nothing to do with what I like or want, it's just how the show was made. There's a reason Funi never dubbed another show in the same way they dubbed DBZ. In an ideal world, the only difference between dubs would be the language. Each audience should be able to watch a show in their native language and get the same experience the original audience got, which appears to be what Funi aims for now, and so they should.

I'm not really disagreeing with you on that, but you have to view this from a business perspective. Look at the Star Wars Special Editions. Lucas added in things he'd always intended to be included and what happened? People complained. Why? Because it wasn't the same as they were used to. FUNi's dub has been around for 10 years now. They're going to do what they can to keep there existing fanbase in tact, even while trying to draw in new people.

[Mountain]

What the majority of the fanbase expects =/= what the show should be like. It's nothing to do with what I like or want, it's just how the show was made. There's a reason Funi never dubbed another show in the same way they dubbed DBZ. In an ideal world, the only difference between dubs would be the language. Each audience should be able to watch a show in their native language and get the same experience the original audience got, which appears to be what Funi aims for now, and so they should.

I'm not really disagreeing with you on that, but you have to view this from a business perspective. Look at the Star Wars Special Editions. Lucas added in things he'd always intended to be included and what happened? People complained. Why? Because it wasn't the same as they were used to. FUNi's dub has been around for 10 years now. They're going to do what they can to keep there existing fanbase in tact, even while trying to draw in new people.

There's a difference. The original theatrical versions of Star Wars were perfect as they were. They didn't need change, because everyone already loved them. Lucas just made too many unnecessary changes. The original FUNi dub wasn't even close to perfect. We're all hoping for something good this time.

[SSVegetto]

Speaking of the script, I have to wonder about language. Shall Gokû and friends be cursing?

Possibly. They did it a lot in the UUEs.

But considering they don't curse the Japanese version and this is supposed to be accurate, I wouldn't be surprised if it's absent.

Xyex, What do you mean they don't curse in Japanese dub?! Yes, they do! They say damn, shit, and bastard. They better have some swearing in it.

Also, I wouldn't go this far, but it's a matter of preference, I have seen fansubs, use their own synonyms such as "asshole", and "fuck" too. That's Americanizing it though I think, because that's how we swear and not how they swear. And that's probably not accurate.

[Taku128]

What the majority of the fanbase expects =/= what the show should be like. It's nothing to do with what I like or want, it's just how the show was made. There's a reason Funi never dubbed another show in the same way they dubbed DBZ. In an ideal world, the only difference between dubs would be the language. Each audience should be able to watch a show in their native language and get the same experience the original audience got, which appears to be what Funi aims for now, and so they should.

I'm not really disagreeing with you on that, but you have to view this from a business perspective. Look at the Star Wars Special Editions. Lucas added in things he'd always intended to be included and what happened? People complained. Why? Because it wasn't the same as they were used to. FUNi's dub has been around for 10 years now. They're going to do what they can to keep there existing fanbase in tact, even while trying to draw in new people.

There's a difference. The original theatrical versions of Star Wars were perfect as they were. They didn't need change, because everyone already loved them. Lucas just made too many unnecessary changes. The original FUNi dub wasn't even close to perfect. We're all hoping for something good this time.

These are just opinions though. I love the original Star Wars movies, but I don't think they're perfect. I wouldn't change them though because they work just fine the way they are. I don't like the changes the Special Editions make, and because of that I refuse to watch them. Kaboom on the other hand is willing to accept these changes because most of what he likes about Star Wars is still there. To some people the current DBZ dub is as close to perfect as it gets for them, and they probably won't like the dub of Kai, but I'm sure there are also a lot of people that are willing to put of with some changes so long as some of the stuff they like about the dub is still there.

[Amigo Ten]

but you have to view this from a business perspective.

No I don't. I know realistically what the chances are of a business radically changing a known successful product are, but I'm a consumer. I look at thing from my perspective, and hope against hope that businesses do the same once in a while.

[penguintruth]

Business perspective? Dub fans will buy anything.

Here Funimation has a chance to actually do justice to the story and characters. Let's hope they don't throw it away to appease the people who are going to buy it regardless of how they change it.

[Mountain]

These are just opinions though. I love the original Star Wars movies, but I don't think they're perfect. I wouldn't change them though because they work just fine the way they are. I don't like the changes the Special Editions make, and because of that I refuse to watch them. Kaboom on the other hand is willing to accept these changes because most of what he likes about Star Wars is still there. To some people the current DBZ dub is as close to perfect as it gets for them, and they probably won't like the dub of Kai, but I'm sure there are also a lot of people that are willing to put of with some changes so long as some of the stuff they like about the dub is still there.

I can totally see where you are coming from as far as my not liking the dub being an opinion. However, I'm not talking about my preference of voices, music, etc. I'm just talking about the accuracy of the adaptation from the Japanese version. Kai, with an accurate script, could be great. I have no idea, because I haven't seen it.

[Gaffer Tape]

In terms of plot points being completely rewritten, or in terms of rewording of dialogue to fit in with the timing of the mouth movements? The dialogue was quite different in the first 13 episodes however, because FUNimation reused the old Sabanized scripts when they went back and re-dubbed it.

Whoo, just to make sure incorrect info doesn't spread, Saban had absolutely nothing to do with the first 13 episodes of dubbed Dragon Ball. They only came on board for DBZ.

EDIT: And in terms of the brief Star Wars comparison, yeah, I've been complaining about the Special Editions for over a decade now. Honestly, the Star Wars fandom and DB fandom are pretty much exactly the same. But this is a totally different can of worms. This is about making a semi-remake more accurate to itself. It pisses me off when DBZ is altered. However, Toei can do whatever they want to with DB Kai because I consider it a different series, well, a remake. As long as their new ideas don't intrude on the original series, I'm okay with it. Likewise, this is a brand new dub for FUNimation for a remade series. They don't have to respect anything they did before (especially since most of what they did was shit anyway).

[Metalwario64]

Whoo, just to make sure incorrect info doesn't spread, Saban had absolutely nothing to do with the first 13 episodes of dubbed Dragon Ball. They only came on board for DBZ.

Oh, my bad.

Well, to correct myself, FUNimation's scripts for the original Ocean cast dub of the first 13 episodes wasn't as faithful as the episodes that were dubbed years later with the in-house cast and different script writers.

[Big Momma]

Speaking of the script, I have to wonder about language. Shall Gokû and friends be cursing?

Possibly. They did it a lot in the UUEs.

But considering they don't curse the Japanese version and this is supposed to be accurate, I wouldn't be surprised if it's absent.

Xyex, What do you mean they don't curse in Japanese dub?! Yes, they do! They say damn, shit, and bastard. They better have some swearing in it.

Also, I wouldn't go this far, but it's a matter of preference, I have seen fansubs, use their own synonyms such as "asshole", and "fuck" too. That's Americanizing it though I think, because that's how we swear and not how they swear. And that's probably not accurate.

First of all, if you think adding any kind of swearing will somehow make the dub "better" then...well, I dunno what to tell ya....


Second, I'm not the most trained person in the good ol' language of Japan, but I'm pretty sure the words that are translated as cusswords are just normal words that are spoken with more intensity. The words themselves don't mean a swear so much as how you say them. (Is that right?)

[Onikage725]

I'm loving the comments from the cast, and the feedback in general. I just burned through some tax return cash picking up the first two Dragon Boxes and the second and third Dragon Ball sets (was falling behind), and I'm thinking I'm going to pick up at least the first Kai set to check it out.

That's a possible compromise as well. Though I still feel he intends to leave characterization at least similar the dub. Goku may get some of his country-boy personality but might not talk like a redneck, for instance. Budokai 1 already had Goku spare Vegeta so that he could fight him again, instead of because he thinks there's good in him, so I don't doubt the characterizations will be much closer to the JP originals. I'm just not expecting them to be 100% the same as the JP version.

Honestly, I think Goku off the clock, per se, came off mostly ok in the dub. I'm not comparing scripts in my mind specifically, but dub Goku did have a kind of laid-back goofiness sometimes. I thought he was spot on in movie 8 outside of a reference to "acoustics," a word I'm pretty sure Goku has never heard, much less know how to use in a sentence. It isn't until he's facing off with the big bad that dub Goku develops a love of speeches. Drop things like "sword of injustice" and "hope of the universe," pronounce "Kaio-ken" correctly, and I think he'll come out ok.

I'm not really disagreeing with you on that, but you have to view this from a business perspective. Look at the Star Wars Special Editions. Lucas added in things he'd always intended to be included and what happened? People complained. Why? Because it wasn't the same as they were used to. FUNi's dub has been around for 10 years now. They're going to do what they can to keep there existing fanbase in tact, even while trying to draw in new people.

If I may offer a counterpoint to this analogy. To some, FUNi's version of DBZ would be the "Special Editions," the version that was tinkered with endlessly when they didn't think the original needed fixing. At this point, FUNi taking a more serious approach to dubbing Kai is basically an long overdue error fix.

[linkdude20002001]

Xyex, What do you mean they don't curse in Japanese dub?! Yes, they do! They say damn, shit, and bastard. They better have some swearing in it.

Also, I wouldn't go this far, but it's a matter of preference, I have seen fansubs, use their own synonyms such as "asshole", and "fuck" too. That's Americanizing it though I think, because that's how we swear and not how they swear. And that's probably not accurate.

First of all, if you think adding any kind of swearing will somehow make the dub "better" then...well, I dunno what to tell ya....

Second, I'm not the most trained person in the good ol' language of Japan, but I'm pretty sure the words that are translated as cusswords are just normal words that are spoken with more intensity. The words themselves don't mean a swear so much as how you say them. (Is that right?)

You're right. Though, techically there are "swear words" in Japanese, but they aren't "bad words". Kuso for example means feces/crap/shit. It's said out of anger, but it's perfectly exceptable for children to say it and you hear it on TV all the time. Sometimes you'll see it translated to crap, or shit, or damn, or "candy-ass faggot"...

[Gaffer Tape]

Ah, "candy-ass faggot"! Back in the good old days when swear words were translated with integrity and accuracy without all this namby-pamby watering down and censorship we have to endure nowadays. Wave the Anime Labs banner high! Time marches on! Viva la resistance!

[Innagadadavida]

Business perspective? Dub fans will buy anything.

You say this a lot but it's not true. It's actually an extremely ignorant blanket statement.

[Xyex]

What the majority of the fanbase expects =/= what the show should be like. It's nothing to do with what I like or want, it's just how the show was made. There's a reason Funi never dubbed another show in the same way they dubbed DBZ. In an ideal world, the only difference between dubs would be the language. Each audience should be able to watch a show in their native language and get the same experience the original audience got, which appears to be what Funi aims for now, and so they should.

I'm not really disagreeing with you on that, but you have to view this from a business perspective. Look at the Star Wars Special Editions. Lucas added in things he'd always intended to be included and what happened? People complained. Why? Because it wasn't the same as they were used to. FUNi's dub has been around for 10 years now. They're going to do what they can to keep there existing fanbase in tact, even while trying to draw in new people.

There's a difference. The original theatrical versions of Star Wars were perfect as they were. They didn't need change, because everyone already loved them. Lucas just made too many unnecessary changes. The original FUNi dub wasn't even close to perfect. We're all hoping for something good this time.

Which is all opinion, which is my point.

Xyex, What do you mean they don't curse in Japanese dub?! Yes, they do! They say damn, shit, and bastard. They better have some swearing in it.

Also, I wouldn't go this far, but it's a matter of preference, I have seen fansubs, use their own synonyms such as "asshole", and "fuck" too. That's Americanizing it though I think, because that's how we swear and not how they swear. And that's probably not accurate.

No, there isn't, and no, they don't. The Japanese have no such thing as swear words. Kuso, for instance, only means excrement. What matters in Japanese is intonation, no the word. You can be just as rude and impolite in Japanese without using kuso or bakayaro or so forth as you can with them. Any swearing you see or hear in dubs or subs purely added color on the part of the translator(s).

but you have to view this from a business perspective.

No I don't. I know realistically what the chances are of a business radically changing a known successful product are, but I'm a consumer. I look at thing from my perspective, and hope against hope that businesses do the same once in a while.

If you were in the majority of their market, they would. They already catered heavily to the JP fans with the DBox releases. This is an 'all inclusive' attempt. Which means they need to keep the dubbies happy, too.

Second, I'm not the most trained person in the good ol' language of Japan, but I'm pretty sure the words that are translated as cusswords are just normal words that are spoken with more intensity. The words themselves don't mean a swear so much as how you say them. (Is that right?)

Pretty much, yeah. The words themselves don't mean anything. It's not like here where we have 'bad words'. They have 'bad intonations'. It's how you say it, not what you say.

If I may offer a counterpoint to this analogy. To some, FUNi's version of DBZ would be the "Special Editions," the version that was tinkered with endlessly when they didn't think the original needed fixing. At this point, FUNi taking a more serious approach to dubbing Kai is basically an long overdue error fix.

To some people, sure. But the majority? No. Think of it as Star Wars in reverse, if you must. The majority of the fanbase sees the SEs first, loves them, doesn't really care that the originals exist. Then it's announced that new remakes are coming out, but more like the originals, not the SEs. Fans who like the SEs but not the originals, the fans that make up the majority of the fan base, aren't going to like this. They like their version, not the original one. That's what FUNi's got to contend with.

[Chuquita]

After reading those two VA quotes, I really hope Funi streams at least a few episodes of their Kai dub on either their YouTube or Hulu pages.