What's with the name censorship?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

It's exactly the same word, spelling and all, apart from the last syllable. Why does it suddenly translate to "Freza"? It's comes from the English word "freezer" to begin with. I don't understand your reasoning. You just seem top be saying that you can spell a word however you want and as long as it can be pronounced how it should be then it's a correct translation.

It does come from the English word "Freezer", but that doesn't mean that you have to spell it that way. Just look at Vegeta. It obviously comes from the English word Vegetable, yet some people spell it Vejita or Vegita which aren't incorrect translations.

[TripleRach]

You guys have been going in circles an awful lot. Repeating the same thing over and over isn't going to do much for anyone.

Here, I'll throw in something that (I think?) is kind of different. The combination of the letters "IE" can be pronounced multiple ways in English. Sure, it often makes a long E sound, but there are lots of common words where it doesn't. In particular, there are words like "fries" and "friend," both of which also start with "FR," but have a long I and short E sound, respectively. Two common words that closely resemble FUNi's "Frieza," but have completely different vowel sounds.

But the "EE" combination is much more straightforward. There's hardly any exceptions to that one. (I'm trying, and I can't think of anything, other than maybe Beelzebub.) I think it's safe to say that almost all native English speakers will equate "EE" with the long E sound, and vice versa. People learning English as a second language are probably taught this very early on as well. Two other common words that start with "FR" are "freedom" and "freeze," and I'm not sure there are any other English words at all that start with "FREE" and don't have a long E sound. I can't find a single one skimming through a dictionary.

TLDR version: The pronunciation of "Free" is less ambiguous than "Frie."

[Amigo Ten]

Okay wait, let me rephrase this. I'm not sure why the translation of Freeza's name is being treated like the Japanese names in the series (if you follow me). I've seen Reacoome/Recoome/etc spelled numerous ways for example. But Freeza, like Vegeta/Coola/Cell/Dabra/etc, have names that come from English words, or at least non-Japanese words.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

You guys have been going in circles an awful lot. Repeating the same thing over and over isn't going to do much for anyone.

Here, I'll throw in something that (I think?) is kind of different. The combination of the letters "IE" can be pronounced multiple ways in English. Sure, it often makes a long E sound, but there are lots of common words where it doesn't. In particular, there are words like "fries" and "friend," both of which also start with "FR," but have a long I and short E sound, respectively. Two common words that closely resemble FUNi's "Frieza," but have completely different vowel sounds.

But the "EE" combination is much more straightforward. There's hardly any exceptions to that one. (I'm trying, and I can't think of anything, other than maybe Beelzebub.) I think it's safe to say that almost all native English speakers will equate "EE" with the long E sound, and vice versa. People learning English as a second language are probably taught this very early on as well. Two other common words that start with "FR" are "freedom" and "freeze," and I'm not sure there are any other English words at all that start with "FREE" and don't have a long E sound. I can't find a single one skimming through a dictionary.

TLDR version: The pronunciation of "Free" is less ambiguous than "Frie."

Good point. I will admit that "ee" is more straightforward and "ie" is more confusing to the non Dragon Ball fan. But when a Dragon Ball fan (hardcore or casual) sees Frieza they immidiately think "white evil alien guy" and pronounce it correctly.

[Xyex]

(also, "Pik-kon" is no closer to Paikuhan than it is to Piccolo. Where's the obvious connection?)

First time I saw Paikuhan I knew that it was a reference to Pikk­on which I had seen long before it. Why? Because the names are quite similar. Quite like when you see someone use P­ikkoro you know they mean Piccolo.

It makes all the difference in the world - think about Piccolo, if they called it Peccolo would you be just as okay with that?

"Peccolo" doesn't have the same pronunciation as Piccolo though, like Fri­eza and Freeza have. "Pickolo" would be a more accurate comparison.

Not necessarily. You can look at Frieza and get a few different pronunciations. Fry-za, Fray-za, etc. Freeza's name comes from the English word "Freezer". It's literally that word without the R sound on the end. Just like Vegeta is the English word "vegetable" without the "ble". Why should they be spelled Freeza or Vejita?

Getting "Fryza" or "Frayza" out of "Fri­eza" makes no sense. There are plenty of words in English that show you that ie is pronounced the same as ee.

It can be either, but "Cold" is more acceptable because it keeps the name pun.

No. "Cold" is a word. "Kold" is a name pun.

The pun is completely lost using 'frie' as opposed to 'free'.

The pun is not lost, actually. The pronunciation remains unchanged, thus the pun remains unaffected.

But it clearly is.

But it clearly isn't.

It's exactly the same word, spelling and all, apart from the last syllable. Why does it suddenly translate to "Frieza"? It's comes from the English word "freezer" to begin with. I don't understand your reasoning. You just seem top be saying that you can spell a word however you want and as long as it can be pronounced how it should be then it's a correct translation.

Kakarotto comes from the English word Carrot. Raditz comes from the English word Radish. Just because they came from the English word doesn't mean they have to be spelled the same as the English word. Also noted in the za ending instead of the er ending for Freeza. Plus, since ie and ee are the same pronunciation and the word is not the English word, but a pun of the English word, then it can not technically be incorrect. It's just not the common spelling.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Getting "Fryza" or "Frayza" out of "Fri­eza" makes no sense. There are plenty of words in English that show you that ie is pronounced the same as ee.

Finally someone with some common sense! In most cases, "ie" is pronounced the same as "ee".

The pun is not lost, actually. The pronunciation remains unchanged, thus the pun remains unaffected.

Exactly. If the pronunciation remains unchanged, then the pun is still kept. Easy!

[VegettoEX]

To be completely unambiguous and direct...

Is anyone upset with the Freeza filter anything other than a FUNimation dub loyalist that just wants to stick it to "the man"...?

I mean... seriously? Didn't you have any clue what you were getting into when you visited the website? This is not a FUNimation fansite. Stop expecting us to play nice.

[Adamant]

(also, "Pik-kon" is no closer to Paikuhan than it is to Piccolo. Where's the obvious connection?)

First time I saw Paikuhan I knew that it was a reference to Pikk­on which I had seen long before it. Why? Because the names are quite similar. Quite like when you see someone use P­ikkoro you know they mean Piccolo.

It's "Piccolo" with the "lo" replaced by an "n". "Pik-kon is some dub name for Piccolo" would be anyone's first guess.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

To be completely unambiguous and direct...

Is anyone upset with the Freeza filter anything other than a FUNimation dub loyalist that just wants to stick it to "the man"...?

I mean... seriously? Didn't you have any clue what you were getting into when you visited the website? This is not a FUNimation fansite. Stop expecting us to play nice.

I am not a FUNimation dub loyalist, I prefer the Japanese dub. I support all of your name filters except for Frieza and if you read my posts you'll find out why.

[Amigo Ten]

Kakarott always annoyed me because Kakarrot seemed the much more natural choice.

[Taku128]

To be completely unambiguous and direct...

Is anyone upset with the Freeza filter anything other than a FUNimation dub loyalist that just wants to stick it to "the man"...?

I hate the dub and it honestly bothers me somewhat, and it's not just because of situations where I have to sneak around the filter because I need to specifically use the FUNimation spelling of Freeza's name, or any character's name for that matter. You're deciding based solely on your opinion what counts as a correct romanization and what doesn't, what preserves the pun and what doesn't. I think it's still pretty obvious what Fri­eza is a pun on, and I think people who aren't familiar with the FUNimation dub can put two and two together and figure out who Frie­za is. Pi­kkon is another romanization I see no problem with. It sounds almost exactly like Paikuhan, but without the "uh". I don't see how changing Paikuhan to Pik­kon is any different from changing Kuririn to Krillin. Hell, I think Pikk­on preserves that character's name pun better then Krillin preserves that character's pun, but Krillin isn't filtered and Pikk­on is. Japan even uses FUNimation's names for the characters some times, like Fri­eza in Battle Stadium D.O.N. If it's good enough for Japan why isn't it good enough here?

I don't actually feel that strongly about it, and it's your forums so you can do whatever you want with them, but you asked so I posted.

[TripleRach]

Pikkon is another romanization I see no problem with. It sounds almost exactly like Paikuhan, but without the "uh". I don't see how changing Paikuhan to Pikkon is any different from changing Kuririn to Krillin. Hell, I think Pikkon preserves that character's name pun better then Krillin preserves that character's pun, but Krillin isn't filtered and Paikuhan is.

What most people don't seem to realize, possibly because almost no one spells it that way, is that Paikuhan is actually Paikuuhan. It's a long "kuu" like in Gokuu's name. Not a short "ku" like in Kuririn. So you can't really argue that the U can be easily dropped in this case.

I'm not really sure what you mean about the pun, either. With "Krillin," you could easily just throw in a U to get "Kurillin," and that's basically the same as "kuri" + "(shao)lin." You'd have to do a lot more than that to turn Pikkon back into Paikuuhan, because it drops an entire consonant and a long vowel, among other things.

[Godo]

I mean... seriously? Didn't you have any clue what you were getting into when you visited the website? This is not a FUNimation fansite. Stop expecting us to play nice.

This kind of reasoning is the only problem I have with this forum. I am more for having a discussion about rules rather than "deal with it" comments from the Admin of the site.
I am not saying that the rules should not be obeyed, but I think that a webmaster should have a more humble approach to the members of his board than this.
I see no harm from this discussion, and some members bring some valid points, both from the pro and the against side.
And the name filter, although it started as a joke and evolved into something larger and a stone that the forum rests on, is just an infantile attempt to force upon the members some of the mods and admin's own views about how "things should be", and just because of that the Japanese names are the original, there is nothing that tells that the names of the American dub is less valid, and the opposite too.
And your "deal with it" attitude just worsens the attitude of the members that are against the name filter, and I don't get how you don't get that.

We are speaking about a Shônen manga here, and to see things get so much out of hand just because of some names is really sad.
I knew about the emphasis on the Japanese version when I signed up, but as I started with the Swedish translation, which was kind of accurate, I have had no problems with the names. But I still thought that it was rather odd, as noticing which names are which is just one googling away, and that many members have bigger problems with Japanese phrases and names being used by the minority of the members here that know Japanese, but this isn't frowned upon in the least.

But this isn't stopping me from using this forums either, since it's just a minor nuisance.

But I have something to add:

No one owns the Internet. That's what is beautiful about it. That's what made it so great.
And people are always going to complain and react if there is censorship on the Internet, even though it's such a small thing as a name filter. And an Internet veteran such as yourself should known that.
Even though you are trying to make some order in your forum, I think we both know that a name filter isn't really necessary, and that it's rather something of a personal value to you.
I have seen lots of fan sites who emphasize on the original version of whatever manga/anime/cartoon/movie they obsessed about, and they all worked fine without one.

[VegettoEX]

Godo, you respond as if I'm banning people left and right for having the audacity to think differently and present their case -- that's hardly happening. Free discussion is allowed.

Don't expect me to not have an opinion and a free feeling to state it. Just because I run the place doesn't mean I don't have my own two-cents to chime in with. You not liking those two cents doesn't make them any less valid than anyone else's two cents.

there is nothing that tells that the names of the American dub is less valid

It all keeps coming back around to this, and yet no-one has presented me with any convincing evidence that random name changes in one censored version of one "reversioning" of the show are somehow "valid". If anything, doesn't their description seal the deal?

You have people thinking it's OK for "Tenshinhan" 'cuz it cuts off so much of the name, but not for "Freeza" because it's only one letter off. You have people thinking it's OK for "Selypa" because it's a minor character. These two schools of thought don't necessarily agree with each other. Everyone has their own double-standards. It's like me still writing the name as "Hildegarn" despite the pun probably best being served with a "Hiru-". That's the slippery-slope with this whole name-filter, but it's an unavoidable one, where the ends justify the means and provide many more benefits.

Somehow it all keeps coming back to me, exclusively. That's fine, since I run the site and all, but I'll also remind the community... hey, all... you requested a lot of these. Just because one person complaining about it doesn't like it doesn't mean that plenty more people didn't request it in the first place. Most of these aren't just added willy-nilly. There are discussions on the forum and chat about these, and you're free to dig back into the archives. Everything's transparent.

Since the beginning, it's always been about clarity. If you don't realize just how international of an audience we serve, you're not reading the website enough, and you're not reading what your peers are saying. I'll state it again that this is not a 1999 FUNimation fansite, and we will not pander to their strange re-namings, just like we won't pander to French changes and just like how we won't pander to Arabic changes.

If there was a FUNimation-dub-only forum (hey, like that one newsgroup that got no traffic and died) that enforced that sole canon and style guide, I would either deal with their rules, or simply not post there. That's the beauty of the internet, exactly like you said. There's a community for every interest. For some people, maybe this isn't the place.

We realize you have a choice when discussing online, and thank you for shopping at Daizenshuu EX.

[Amigo Ten]

I like being able to type "Ten" and have it show up as "Tenshinhan". Saves me time. And yes, I do still use "Ten" for whatever reason. I've read the manga a bunch of times, but it hasn't changed. "Ten" is just what immediately comes to mind when thinking of the character.

[Xyex]

To be completely unambiguous and direct...

Is anyone upset with the Freeza filter anything other than a FUNimation dub loyalist that just wants to stick it to "the man"...?

I mean... seriously? Didn't you have any clue what you were getting into when you visited the website? This is not a FUNimation fansite. Stop expecting us to play nice.

I'm certainly not a "FUNimation dub loyalist." My view is as long as people can tell who's being discussed (name is similar to the original, name is fairly widespread due to being a main character, whatever) there's no point in filtering it.

And as I've said before, I came before the word filter. I was all for filtering the weird/odd spellings and the Engrish (like Se­ru) names but never saw point in filtering the dub ones.

It's made to look even worse with names like Fa­sha being changed to Selypa because of how many accepted romanizations there are for it. I see Celypa a lot on other sites and I myself use Seripa.

I like being able to type "Ten" and have it show up as "Tenshinhan". Saves me time. And yes, I do still use "Ten" for whatever reason. I've read the manga a bunch of times, but it hasn't changed. "Ten" is just what immediately comes to mind when thinking of the character.

I'm rather the opposite, for the most part. When I type things like Tie­n and then see it up as Tenshinhan I just scowl because I'm usually too lazy to hit edit and change it.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I mean... seriously? Didn't you have any clue what you were getting into when you visited the website? This is not a FUNimation fansite. Stop expecting us to play nice.

This kind of reasoning is the only problem I have with this forum. I am more for having a discussion about rules rather than "deal with it" comments from the Admin of the site.
I am not saying that the rules should not be obeyed, but I think that a webmaster should have a more humble approach to the members of his board than this.
I see no harm from this discussion, and some members bring some valid points, both from the pro and the against side.
And the name filter, although it started as a joke and evolved into something larger and a stone that the forum rests on, is just an infantile attempt to force upon the members some of the mods and admin's own views about how "things should be", and just because of that the Japanese names are the original, there is nothing that tells that the names of the American dub is less valid, and the opposite too.
And your "deal with it" attitude just worsens the attitude of the members that are against the name filter, and I don't get how you don't get that.

We are speaking about a Shônen manga here, and to see things get so much out of hand just because of some names is really sad.
I knew about the emphasis on the Japanese version when I signed up, but as I started with the Swedish translation, which was kind of accurate, I have had no problems with the names. But I still thought that it was rather odd, as noticing which names are which is just one googling away, and that many members have bigger problems with Japanese phrases and names being used by the minority of the members here that know Japanese, but this isn't frowned upon in the least.

But this isn't stopping me from using this forums either, since it's just a minor nuisance.

But I have something to add:

No one owns the Internet. That's what is beautiful about it. That's what made it so great.
And people are always going to complain and react if there is censorship on the Internet, even though it's such a small thing as a name filter. And an Internet veteran such as yourself should known that.
Even though you are trying to make some order in your forum, I think we both know that a name filter isn't really necessary, and that it's rather something of a personal value to you.
I have seen lots of fan sites who emphasize on the original version of whatever manga/anime/cartoon/movie they obsessed about, and they all worked fine without one.

Couldn't have said it better myself, this really sums up my feelings on the matter. The: "this is my forum and if you don't like my rules, you can fuck off" attitude is ignorant and not the attitude a webmaster should have. The people on this forum asked for the filter ages ago but that doesn't mean we can't talk about this and reach some sort of agreement.


Okay, the FUNi/Oceans dubs are just revisionings or adaptations but more than half of us here grew up watching those dubs or still do. That half is going to know who Frieza or Tien is and the other half can just piece it together. (Seriously, it's not that hard.)


I've never been to Dragon Ball or Anime forum where there has been word filters placed on dub exclusive names and when I joined DaizEX this surprised me.


I'm not a dub fan, but all I'm asking is that you get off your high horse and think about it, maybe do a democratic vote into getting rid of the word filters.

[Rocketman]

I have no strong feelings one way or the other on the name filters, other than the new one for Hercule. Come on now.

[Bussani]

The: "this is my forum and if you don't like my rules, you can fuck off" attitude is ignorant and not the attitude a webmaster should have.

I don't see how it's "ignorant", and I don't see why the webmaster can't act however he wants. I mean, it's not like this is a business where the customer is always right. We're guests here, not customers. He has every right to say, "These are the rules. Follow them or get out." And it's not like he's only giving you those two options, because...

that doesn't mean we can't talk about this and reach some sort of agreement.

...He's already said that you're free to discuss it, and he didn't even lock the thread. You simply haven't changed his mind yet. And quite frankly, everyone's just repeating themselves now, so it doesn't seem like anyone ever will.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I have no strong feelings one way or the other on the name filters, other than the new one for (the H-word). Come on now.

I know, it's not funny anymore. Switch the filter back to Mr. Satan.