Gohan intended to take the leading role?

[smiley]

This may be a pointless question, but do you think Gohan was originally meant to take the leading role in part II?

At the beginning of the Saiyan saga, there were a lot of implications that he was going to be the one to beat Nappa and Vegeta (for example, Kami saying that Gohan is their only hope). That's why it has always been a huge surprise to me when Goku arrived and said he was going to take them on by himself.

[yunzabit]

The Goku and Vegeta match up was pretty much destined after Kami took Goku to train in the afterlife. Everyone knew Goku was their ringer. Only Piccolo saw Gohan's potential at that point and it was still a shot in the dark.

From a character perspective, Gohan wasn't developed enough during the Saiyan arc to take over as the lead. Everything post Freeza should've been Gohan's.

[smiley]

Here is what Kami said:

"Son Goku may be trained by the Lord of Worlds, but we cannot know how much stronger he can become. Our only hope may be Goku's son..."

[Bussani]

Well, technically it was Gohan who finally crushed Vegeta and ended the fight.

But if you're asking if Toriyama for things to go differently, I don't think so. Kami's line is the standard "underestimate the hero" line. We all knew Goku was going to come back stronger than anyone expected, because that's how these shonen manga usually work. Of course, it still wasn't enough to beat Vegeta alone.

[Travis Touchdown]

The Buu saga should have been all Gohan since that's the way the Cell saga ended, with him in the hero's role. There's an interview somewhere, maybe even on here someplace, where Toriyama explains that at that point Gohan wasn't ready to be put in the hero's role quite yet as he just wasn't the leader that Goku was.

Gohan's attitude as a full grown adult was sufficient, I believe, but Goku was back by then.

[penguintruth]

I think absolutely Gohan was intended to be the new hero, but just wasn't as popular as Goku. I mean, pretty much everything from the point of his appearance onwards hints at it.

The Buu arc, however, just threw everything out.

[Savage68]

Psst, Gohan. Get over here.

We're gonna spend a ton of chapters powering you up for your big debut as the new strongest in the series' entire history.

Yup, that's right.

*record scratches*

Ya know, on second thought...you'll beat up Buu for a few pages and then you're going to get curbstomped and assimilated by him shortly after that.

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

Here is what Kami said:

"Son Goku may be trained by the Lord of Worlds, but we cannot know how much stronger he can become. Our only hope may be Goku's son..."

"That boy is our last hope."
"No. There is another."

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Last hope? Saviour? My ass.


That's what they said about Goten and Trunks.

[Rocketman]

Psst, Gohan. Get over here.

We're gonna spend a ton of chapters powering you up for your big debut as the new strongest in the series' entire history.

He sat on his ass for 24 hours. Fuck him and fuck his shitty bullshit powerup.

[Bussani]

I think it would have been boring if they'd built him up like that, said he was going to save the universe, and then he actually did. I like the Buu saga because every single plan goes balls-up.

Plus, like Rocketman said, he didn't really do anything. Even Goku had to almost die after drinking the Super God Water.

[Savage68]

If Buu had only become slightly stronger than Gohan after absorbing Gotenks & Piccolo, and Gohan had to figure out some way to defeat him(without it coming off as bad writing), I would be satisfied.

[mysticgoten]

After Goku's death against Raditz, Gohan was supposed to be the main.
But Toriyama decided against it.

[goku the krump dancer]

The thing that bothers me is that, if Gohan had become so much more powerful than Gotenks and Buu then why was he crushed so easily after Buu absorbed Gotenks and piccolo?? That must mean that Gohan wasnt that much stronger than Gotenks and that Gotenks would have beaten super Buu just as easily if he was serious from jump street.

[yunzabit]

Regarding your signature mysticgoten, you quote it from yourself but you do know that it is Andy's line from The Office (American) right?

[rereboy]

The thing that bothers me is that, if Gohan had become so much more powerful than Gotenks and Buu then why was he crushed so easily after Buu absorbed Gotenks and piccolo?? That must mean that Gohan wasnt that much stronger than Gotenks and that Gotenks would have beaten super Buu just as easily if he was serious from jump street.

SSJ3 Gotenks almost defeated Super Buu. He was on the verge of doing it when the fusion gave out.

Since Super Buu has "infinite" regeneration and incredible stamina, that must mean that SSJ3 Gotenks was actually stronger than Super Buu, even if not by a lot.

Mystic Gohan was definitely much stronger than Super Buu, but since SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger than Super Buu, there is less power difference between Mystic Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks than there is between Mystic Gohan and Super Buu.

So, add the power of Super Buu to the power of SSJ3 Gotenks, plus the power of Piccolo (who isn`t that weak and gave Super Buu plenty of combat knowledge) and you get a Buu that is much stronger than Mystic Gohan.

[Senzu_Bean]

After Goku's death against Raditz, Gohan was supposed to be the main.
But Toriyama decided against it.

Wait! How is that even possible? Akira Toriyama wrote the manga... how can he suppose something if he is against it?

The thing that bothers me is that, if Gohan had become so much more powerful than Gotenks and Buu then why was he crushed so easily after Buu absorbed Gotenks and piccolo?? That must mean that Gohan wasnt that much stronger than Gotenks and that Gotenks would have beaten super Buu just as easily if he was serious from jump street.

Gohan and Gotenks are pretty close in power. Trunks and Goten both agree that Gohan is only slightly stronger than Gotenks.

[Savage68]

The thing that bothers me is that, if Gohan had become so much more powerful than Gotenks and Buu then why was he crushed so easily after Buu absorbed Gotenks and piccolo?? That must mean that Gohan wasnt that much stronger than Gotenks and that Gotenks would have beaten super Buu just as easily if he was serious from jump street.

SSJ3 Gotenks almost defeated Super Buu. He was on the verge of doing it when the fusion gave out.

Since Super Buu has "infinite" regeneration and incredible stamina, that must mean that SSJ3 Gotenks was actually stronger than Super Buu, even if not by a lot.

Mystic Gohan was definitely much stronger than Super Buu, but since SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger than Super Buu, there is less power difference between Mystic Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks than there is between Mystic Gohan and Super Buu.

So, add the power of Super Buu to the power of SSJ3 Gotenks, plus the power of Piccolo (who isn`t that weak and gave Super Buu plenty of combat knowledge) and you get a Buu that is much stronger than Mystic Gohan.

I agree with all of this, except that Piccolo couldn't have done much of anything to a character well above SSj 3 Goku's tier, like Super Buu.

He provided combat knowledge, but his strength was irrelevant.

[caejones]

The thing that bothers me is that, if Gohan had become so much more powerful than Gotenks and Buu then why was he crushed so easily after Buu absorbed Gotenks and piccolo?? That must mean that Gohan wasnt that much stronger than Gotenks and that Gotenks would have beaten super Buu just as easily if he was serious from jump street.

SSJ3 Gotenks almost defeated Super Buu. He was on the verge of doing it when the fusion gave out.

Since Super Buu has "infinite" regeneration and incredible stamina, that must mean that SSJ3 Gotenks was actually stronger than Super Buu, even if not by a lot.

Mystic Gohan was definitely much stronger than Super Buu, but since SSJ3 Gotenks is stronger than Super Buu, there is less power difference between Mystic Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks than there is between Mystic Gohan and Super Buu.

So, add the power of Super Buu to the power of SSJ3 Gotenks, plus the power of Piccolo (who isn`t that weak and gave Super Buu plenty of combat knowledge) and you get a Buu that is much stronger than Mystic Gohan.

I agree with all of this, except that Piccolo couldn't have done much of anything to a character well above SSj 3 Goku's tier, like Super Buu.

He provided combat knowledge, but his strength was irrelevant.

I'm going out on a limb and guessing based on the silly multipliers we got from the SEGs that Piccolo was roughly a tenth of Buu's power at that point. So we get something that's roughly 2.1 (Buu+Gotenks+Piccolo) vs 1.x (Gohan, where x is most likely less than 3 or 4, but... just guessing).
Not a huge difference, but I'd still call it significant.

_anyway_...
Gohan was the lead in the Garlic Jr. Saga. Sorta. Yeah.
The Cyber-Andro-Jinzou-Artificial-Cell arc was lacking in the single lead department outside of individual battles. I guess Vegeta was effectively the lead up until he went down against Perfect Cell... meanwhile, Gohan could have not appeared and his absence would hardly have been noticed.
Then Gohan suddenly starts training and becomes the secret weapon on the sidelines until his fight with Cell.

[Xyex]

The thing that bothers me is that, if Gohan had become so much more powerful than Gotenks and Buu then why was he crushed so easily after Buu absorbed Gotenks and piccolo?? That must mean that Gohan wasnt that much stronger than Gotenks and that Gotenks would have beaten super Buu just as easily if he was serious from jump street.

It's actually pretty simple and logical.

Super Buu - 100
SSJ3 Gotenks - 105
Ultimate Gohan - 145
Super Buu2 - 205