Could Goku have really beaten Fat Buu?

[hleV]

Oh, and the only reason Boo was able to resist the Spirit Bomb was because Goku was too tired to properly deliver it. Once Goku got his full power restored, it was easy for him. Kid Boo did not suddenly reveal the remaining 95% of his power after holding back, or something ridonkulous like that.

That would completely make sense, if there wasn't one "but". Kid Buu didn't push the Spirit Bomb back with a Kamehameha, but succeeded in doing it with his hands.

EDIT: Kid Buu, seing how big and powerful the Spirit Bomb is, must have put enough power into that Kamehameha so after it had no effect Kid Buu understood that he must power-up.

So, you think Kid Buu made some sort of power boost in-between the time he fought Goku and when he "caught" the Genki Dama (that had no force behind it after a certain point)?

I call it fact.

this is what i was talking about.
<< Chapter 516 >>

What exactly? If you mean Spirit Bomb being finished, then, well, all the energy from people had reached Goku, meaning it's done.

Any more posts like the two above will result in a temporary ban. I've asked you once before to drop the attitude, and it will not be asked of you again.

We're staying on topic. We try to find the best answer. We try to find out if Goku's words are trustworthful or not.

[Savage68]

Kid Buu, seing how big and powerful the Spirit Bomb is, must have put enough power into that Kamehameha so after it had no effect Kid Buu understood that he must power-up.

There's no proof of this happening.

[hleV]

There's no proof of this happening.

Kid Buu shot a Kamehameha. Why Kamehameha and not some random generic beam? He knew that the Spirit Bomb is dangerous. It makes sense? That's right. There's no proof? That's right.

[Savage68]

I should clarify.

There's no proof of a power-up happening. The attack lost momentum, which was why Kid was able to catch it. This is actually stated.

[Kaboom]

It's true that Kid Boo may have underestimated the Spirit Bomb a bit when he fired that shot, but him subsequently catching it with his hands doesn't mean it was easy. He was visibly strained when pushing it back.

[hleV]

I should clarify.

There's no proof of a power-up happening. The attack lost momentum, which was why Kid was able to catch it. This is actually stated.

Kamehameha was charged before Spirit Bomb being launched. Kamehameha's splash, compared to the Spirit Bomb, was pretty big, meaning that Kamehameha was a strong one. Kid Buu was pretty surprised when it didn't take any effect.

What you're saying makes sense as long as Kid Buu is a complete idiot who doesn't know how to handle things (it was kinda proven wrong with him pushing the Spirit Bomb back) though.

[Kaboom]

What you're saying makes sense as long as Kid Buu is a complete idiot who doesn't know how to handle things (it was kinda proven wrong with him pushing the Spirit Bomb back) though.

Kid Boo IS an idiot. He's a mindless killing machine, the dumbest and most instinct-driven of all the Boos by far.

So when his Ki attack didn't work, the most obvious next reaction would be trying to catch it with his hands. Maybe he did put a little more power into it or maybe it just lost momentum or maybe it was just less affected by Ki than by physical resistance, who knows? Boo got lucky.

[hleV]

I am aware of Kid Buu being idiot. But is he dumb enough to let himself die? I doubt it.

It was pretty strange to see Kid Buu shooting some energy ball into Goku (base form) and not knocking him down.

[jackjack]

how do you know his kamehameha had no effect on the genki dama? maybe the reason he was able to hold it back is because his kamehameha lessened its momentum.

[hleV]

That's a pretty nice theory, I must admit. But from what I've seen in manga, Kamehameha didn't seem to do any effect, it just splashed and Kid Buu was really surprised by that.

[smiley]

Because he didn't cite anything erroneous when he made the statement about being able to kill the fat Buu.

So what? He never made anything erroneous when he made the statement about being able to handle Kid Buu alone, either.

It is perfectly possible, and in fact common, for characters to be wrong about their assessments and never be contradicted.

If you're going to make the argument that because characters were wrong about things or even an enemy before, whatever they say shouldn't be taken seriously, good luck trying to make sense of anything in the story.

Again, reading comprehension. Work on it.

I said that since he made a statement of exactly the same nature in that same conversation, then it is reasonable to put some doubt on it.

BTW that's a an appeal to consequences fallacy. You're saying that since my idea would have negative consequences (i.e. things in the story would be more difficult to make sense of), then the argument must therefore be wrong. That's fallacious reasoning.

No, because he could've killed a significantly stronger Buu with a ki blast.

With VEGETA'S HELP TO DISTRACT BUU.

How many times do I need to say that we are talking about a 1 on 1 scenario, here?

Besides, Kid Buu is not necessarily stronger than Fat Buu. I've been trying to avoid getting into that argument now, but since you are so insistent on saying that he is "significantly" stronger, I had to point this out.

Goku is one of the few characters who actually seems to know what they're saying about anything in the Majin Boo arc. If he later admits that he could have beaten Fat Boo if he wanted, then sure he can.

I'm sorry, but that simply isn't true. Buu saga Goku has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

"Since I was even with Vegeta, there's no way I stand a chance against Buu"

"I probably couldn't have beaten Buu even if I went all-out"

"Actually, I could have beaten him"

"Yeah! We can take him!" (10 minutes later, Goku is struggling for breath while Buu is laughing and dancing)

[hleV]

"Since I was even with Vegeta, there's no way I stand a chance against Buu"

"I probably couldn't have beaten Buu even if I went all-out"

"Actually, I could have beaten him"

"Yeah! We can take him!" (10 minutes later, Goku is struggling for breath while Buu is laughing and dancing)

I find it hilarious . Just wanted to thank for this.

[Kaboom]

"Since I was even with Vegeta, there's no way I stand a chance against Buu"

He was still keeping Super Saiyan 3 a secret at that point.

"I probably couldn't have beaten Buu even if I went all-out"

He admitted later that he was making excuses in order to leave things up to Gotenks.

"Actually, I could have beaten him"

Yep. Again, no reason to doubt him since we were given an explanation.

"Yeah! We can take him!" (10 minutes later, Goku is struggling for breath while Buu is laughing and dancing)

Which he could have, if not for the unexpected power drain.

Again, we can take his word for it on Fat Boo, and he only lost to Kid Boo because of SSj3's power drain.

[hleV]

"Yeah! We can take him!" (10 minutes later, Goku is struggling for breath while Buu is laughing and dancing)

Which he could have, if not for the unexpected power drain.

As my argument tells, Goku didn't know the true power of Kid Buu, so his statement that he could wipe Kid Buu out is redundant.

[jackjack]

That's a pretty nice theory, I must admit. But from what I've seen in manga, Kamehameha didn't seem to do any effect, it just splashed and Kid Buu was really surprised by that.

but he could have been surprised because the attack was still coming at him, which is possible if he thought he would send it back to goku in the first place.

if he powered up to resist the genki dama, i am sure someone would have said something about it because things like that don't go completely unmentioned in dbz. the only time his power is mentioned is during his all out fight with goku.

As my argument tells, Goku didn't know the true power of Kid Buu, so his statement that he could wipe Kid Buu out is redundant.

this is irrelevant if you can't prove that he had more power in his bag.

[Kaboom]

As my argument tells, Goku didn't know the true power of Kid Buu, so his statement that he could wipe Kid Buu out is redundant.

And again, he'd been fighting Boo up close and personal, so yes he would have a good idea of his power, even if he and Vegeta had slightly underestimated him before. He correctly figured how strong the Spirit Bomb would have to be to finish Boo off, so he would likewise know how much power he'd have to generate to do it himself. Why would he be wrong about one method but right about the other? If he says he could gather that much power in about a minute (barring the circumstances), then we have no reason not to believe him.

I have a feeling this discussion isn't going to go anywhere.

[hleV]

Two or more possible, contradicting theories. I guess that means "no answer to this question, go ask Toriyama (who probably forgotten it himself)".

[Xyex]

I think the fact that Goku actually killed Kid Buu with the Spirit Bomb proves he knew how strong Kid Buu was. Look at the only other two times he used the attack. Vs. Vegeta it failed because he lost some of the power to it. Vs. Freeza it failed because he didn't know how much power Freeza was holding back, and so Freeza was able to resist it.

Meanwhile, Vs. Kid Buu it worked, and Buu died.

[hleV]

I think the fact that Goku actually killed Kid Buu with the Spirit Bomb proves he knew how strong Kid Buu was. Look at the only other two times he used the attack. Vs. Vegeta it failed because he lost some of the power to it. Vs. Freeza it failed because he didn't know how much power Freeza was holding back, and so Freeza was able to resist it.

Meanwhile, Vs. Kid Buu it worked, and Buu died.

I think that's because all of the energy that was sent by humans reached Goku at once. Getting all the energy he was able to get and launching Spirit Bomb into Kid Buu is completely different than "I got the energy that is enough to annihilate Kid Buu! Die, fucker!"

[Kaboom]

Goku has a good track record for judging power in the Boo arc.

• - He sensed that Kaioshin was something special, which was true of his actual power despite him being an incompetent wuss.
  - He accurately gauged Dabra as being in Cell's ballpark of power, proven right by SSj Gohan matching him.
  - He assured Kaioshin that PuiPui and Yakon were no big deal to them, which they weren't.
  - He could tell that Fat Boo was trouble, whereas Vegeta was dismissive of him.
  - He was correct in assuming that if Vegeta couldn't beat Boo, then neither could he (with just Super Saiyan 2, at least).
  - He more-or-less accurately projected that a Super Saiyan fusion of Goten and Trunks could stand a chance against Fat Boo.
  - He knew simply swinging a sword around for a few hours hadn't made Gohan strong enough to fight Boo.
  - He knew there was no way in Hell that he and Vegeta could beat Super Boo.
  - Lastly, he knew how much power was needed from either himself of the Spirit Bomb to defeat Kid Boo.

I'm pretty sure there's a few other instances that I'm forgetting.