What's with the name censorship?

[Bussani]

That just brings me back to my, "Why does it matter?" argument.

Which has already been answered by Mike. You just choose not to accept the answer, apparently. Which is probably why you can't come up with a valid argument against it to change his mind. And that's why the thread is going in circles: people have to keep answering your same question over and over.

[jjgp1112]

How is T-ien not wrong?

Because that's the name in a version that according to Mike himself makes up a pretty large amount of the this board's users. Regardless of your feelings towards it, it IS his name in another version. The filter just comes off as a silly attempt to force another version on users who don't care for it, which again goes back to, "Why do you care?. And for the love of God, if someone uses the "Mike's forum, Mike's rules. If you don't like it, go to another forum." excuse again, I'll fuckin', I'll fuckin...*lists the disturbing tortures that Rakewon, Ghostface Killah, and Method Man explicitly described in the beginning of M.E.T.H.O.D Man*

[JulieYBM]

How is T-ien not wrong?

Because that's the name in a version that according to Mike himself makes up a pretty large amount of the this board's users. Regardless of your feelings towards it, it IS his name in another version. The filter just comes off as a silly attempt to force another version on users who don't care for it, which again goes back to, "Why do you care?. And for the love of God, if someone uses the "Mike's forum, Mike's rules. If you don't like it, go to another forum." excuse again, I'll fuckin', I'll fuckin...*lists the disturbing tortures that Rakewon, Ghostface Killah, and Method Man explicitly described in the beginning of M.E.T.H.O.D Man*

Just because people don't like the color orange that doesn't mean it should be banned on the account of being orange. The wrong terms are filtered to the correct, original terms because people like myself (who asked for them) don't want to read the incorrect names from the FUNimation dub on the board. Of course this hasn't stopped users from working around the filter, but why should it be suppporters of the original terms who have to do the work?

[jjgp1112]

You guys go on and on about how if we don't like the filter, then we can circumvent it. Do you not realize that that in turn defeats the whole purpose of the argument of "we don't like to see incorrect terms" and you're thus telling people exactly how they CAN annoy you? That would make the whole filter in itself pointless, would it not?

In that case, all it does is make it take a little bit longer and annoying for people who's preference lies in the dub for their posts to come out as they want it to be.

Why should it have to be supporters of the dub who have to do all of the work?

[Bussani]

if someone uses the "Mike's forum, Mike's rules. If you don't like it, go to another forum." excuse again, I'll

Can you explain why that's not a valid reason? Because that's really what it comes down to. The rules are the rules because of Mike's opinion. Your opinion is different to his, so your task is to change his opinion, which you clearly haven't done, and which may very well be impossible for you to do. You act like that's unfair.

[jjgp1112]

if someone uses the "Mike's forum, Mike's rules. If you don't like it, go to another forum." excuse again, I'll

Can you explain why that's not a valid reason? Because that's really what it comes down to. The rules are the rules because of Mike's opinion. Your opinion is different to his, so your task is to change his opinion, which you clearly haven't done, and which may very well be impossible for you to do. You act like that's unfair.

For the love of God, I'm not asking him to CHANGE his opinions, I'm asking him not to FORCE HIS OPINIONS ON OTHER USERS.

"Alright, let's assume things were reversed and the board filtered Tenshinhan into Ti­en or Paikuhan into Pikk­on or so forth, forcing those who were used to those names, preferred those names, into the dub ones instead unless they took the extra time to bypass the filter. All the same reasons could technically be used with only slight alteration. "It's not Paikuhan, it's Pi­kkon. This is an English board not a Japanese board." The point is there's no point. Why should anyone have to go to extra work to allow a technically correct spelling, one that's well known in the native language of the board and clearly close enough to the original spelling as to be obvious, in the first place?"

This sort of puts things in perspective. I think that filtering ANY name is stupid. If I made a forum and filtered dub names to sub names, then everyone in this thread would have the right to slap the ever-living shit out of me because it would just be stupid to force my preferences on other people in a community I'm leaving open to them. A rule can still be unfair even if it falls in line with your opinion. If I thought abortion was evil, I would still think banning abortion would be unfair because abortion is such a divided subject and the things that go into your preference are incredibly subjective.

[Kaboom]

Why should it have to be supporters of the dub who have to do all of the work?

Because your preferred version of the show is the one responsible for changing things and making some method of clarification necessary in the first place.


jjgp1112, despite all your efforts to drive me towards the contrary, I do not hold anything against dubbies in general. I myself started out as a fan of the dub, but eventually outgrew it once I realized what the real DragonBall had to offer. This forum, and its emphasis and focus on the original Japanese version, was a major factor in shaping my then-budding fandom. If not for things like the word-filter, and gracious members who were willing and eager to explain things to me, I would not be the fan I am today.

So don't think I want to repel dubbies. On the contrary, I welcome the joining and participation of dub fans in hopes that they'll reap the same benefits I did in my earlier fan-days, and gain a better appreciation for the series, the anime in particular, in a broader and truer way.

Some members do know better, possibly because of the filters, but still have a preference for the dub's terminology. And that's fine. Xyex, for example, I know is a smart guy. I know that he knows what the real names are but for the most part prefers the dub ones, and I know he was just trying to play devil's advocate for the sake of it with his earlier participation in this thread. That goes for other members in the same boat, like Rocketman.

But people like you, and past offenders in the same vein like Rena Rune and so forth, are a different story. No matter how many times you get these things explained to you, you still can't seem to resist starting up these inane, ridiculous rages against the machine which, in the end, do nothing but offend the powers-that-be and make yourselves look bad, and the material you're trying to defend look even worse than it already does. You're giving yourselves, and dubbies in general, a bad name with this argumentative, borderline-anarchist bullcrap.

So no, I am not on some sort of mission to insult or antagonize dubbies. If my posts come across as somewhat dickish, it's because I've all but run out of patience and sympathy for you.



I want to lock this thread soooo badly, and I'm not sure why I don't. It's not like the "discussion" is ever going to really go anywhere.

[Bussani]

For the love of God, I'm not asking him to CHANGE his opinions

Yes, you are. He's given his opinion that the filters are necessary for consistency within the board and with the rest of the site. Your opinion is that they're pointless. Continuing to say that they're pointless isn't going to sway him when he thinks that they're not.

I'm asking him not to FORCE HIS OPINIONS ON OTHER USERS.

I really don't see how word filters are forcing an opinion on anyone.

[jjgp1112]

I'm trying not to be antagonistic, and I'm struggling to find the right words for it but, why is it that some of you people seem to have this...erm...mindset that people don't truly become fans of Dragon Ball until they become greatly exposed to the original? Again, I'm having a hard time wording my arguments so I apologize in advance. It just seems like every argument seems to come down to, "We want everyone to become sub fans." Er, or rather, you want everyone to...

Goddammit, I don't know what the fuck I'm even saying. Can someone who at least has an idea of what I'm trying to imply and is far better at verbalizing their thoughts explain it for me?

And to Kaboom, just because YOU became more of a fan doesn't mean that it works the same for every single other person. I was already a fan for 6 years when I joined this place. This forum played a big part in me actually becoming INTERESTED in Dragon Ball again, since wrestling and Hip-Hop for about 2 years prior to me joining pretty much killed off all of the attention I used to give to Dragon ball, but it has had virtually no affect on any of my opinions, outside of the seeming attempt of all the people involved.

[Kaboom]

Goddammit, I don't know what the fuck I'm even saying. Can someone who at least has an idea of what I'm trying to imply and is far better at verbalizing their thoughts explain it for me?

One last time for the road? Sure.

waaaaaah I don't like it."

I think the thread has run its course. When abortion is being used as material for a comparison, I really doubt the topic has anywhere else to go. Maybe someone in charge should just make a clear, plain-English thread explaining why the word filter is there. That way if anyone who hasn't already argued about it a million times ever asks, we can just point them to it and be done.

As for this thread, I'm locking it for the time being in hopes that the argument will stop, at least temporarily. If Mike or someone else feels it should be allowed to continue, then they can feel free to re-open it.

[Xyex]

Alright, I was debating whether or not to do this after Kaboom locked it but... the lock was pointless and I had a reply all typed out and ready to go, but had to run off before I could hit post and came back to the thread being locked, so I'm making a new one to post it up.

How is T-ien not wrong?

Because it's not? Because it's used in official capacity? In official releases?

Just because people don't like the color orange that doesn't mean it should be banned on the account of being orange. The wrong terms are filtered to the correct, original terms because people like myself (who asked for them) don't want to read the incorrect names from the FUNimation dub on the board. Of course this hasn't stopped users from working around the filter, but why should it be suppporters of the original terms who have to do the work?

There's a simple solution. Learn Japanese and post on a Japanese speaking message board.

As I said, they're not wrong. They're (some of) the correct English names for the character. This "lol, that's not the original, it's wrong" stuff is beyond stupid. Things get changed all the times in all sorts of mediums but it's only in a handful of anime fandoms that anyone ever gives a shit. I've never seen a message board that's filtered the English Pokemon names back to their Japanese ones, for instance.

And why should anyone need to do extra work just to use the terms they prefer? And why should we care what you do or do not want to read, since you don't care what anyone else does or does not want to read or post or whatever?

Anyway, I still say the best option for all of this is some sort of middle ground. A way to turn the filter on or off per user, for instance. Or a general sticky thread that explains the changes, since the main reason being given is to 'clear up confusion' (which, as I've said, (the H word) utterly fails at).

[VegettoEX]

All of the reasons I've posted so far, including a repeat of the compiled list (and any potential new ones brought forth through this discussion) will indeed be posted in a new, sticky thread when I have the time.

Until then... uhh... the board is the same as it has been for years...? And all is well.