Stupid things you've ignored.

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
User avatar
BobZ
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 362
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:20 pm
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria [Land of Confusion]

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by BobZ » Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:40 pm

Definitely Goku's trip to the moon with his Nyobo, where he left the Rabbit mafia to rot. :lol:
Realism? None. :lol: I know Z wasn't even conceived at that time and Dragon Ball was pretty much going like a fairy tale, but if you look at the whole thing as a single entity, it is kind of weird. And also it is kind of easy to let go and ignore too though, so no big deal whatsoever.

I've always wondered how Bardock survived in Space when he confronted Freeza before dying along with his home planet, but hey...

Vegeta and Nappa also blasted a planet out of their capsules in the vastness of space and had no problem either.
Yet Freeza was insistent that Saiyans can't survive like him. Of course, the above mentioned was filler material, but still. :)
I guess Goku should've known better than to listen to Freeza. :lol:

User avatar
yunzabit
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:17 pm

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by yunzabit » Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:35 pm

Everything after Goku and Freeza's fight on Namek.

User avatar
Makaioshin
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: Kokomo

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by Makaioshin » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:16 pm

Most of the inconsistency in the anime. Bardock not only surviving in space but talking in space. I actually didn't notice some of these things that people are listing. I never really payed attention to the timelines.

User avatar
SparkyPantsMcGee
I Live Here
Posts: 2473
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:17 pm
Location: Young People Town, Fl
Contact:

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by SparkyPantsMcGee » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:25 pm

The time line/multi-universes from the cell saga, Bardock in space, Vegeta's missing tail, and Toei's lightning problems are all things that bugged me at one point but now I just stopped caring.
...Wait what are you doing? Are you still reading this? I finished what I had to say, why don't you move on to the next post?

User avatar
B
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5563
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:15 am
Contact:

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by B » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:30 pm

yunzabit wrote:Everything after Goku and Freeza's fight on Namek.
Dohohohoho, you.
Keen Observation of Dragon Ball Z Movie 4's Climax wrote:Slug shits to see the genki

User avatar
Dayspring
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7753
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by Dayspring » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:38 pm

rereboy wrote:
fig404 wrote:The time-travel issues in the Cell arc.
The time travel will never make sense because there are too many plotholes.

However... I have an explanation that (almost) makes sense. I think that the author was thinking about something like this when he wrote the Cell arc.

Graphic:

Image

Keep in mind that the Time Machine seems to "memorize" the timeline it came from and the timeline that it created. Therefore, it not only is able to move through time but it can also go to different timelines that it has visited before and came from.

A new timeline is created whenever a paradox happens. Basically, if Trunks` original time travel altered his own timeline, then he would change, become someone else and he wouldn`t need to time travel. But if he hadn`t time traveled, then that change would never happen. That`s a paradox. One theory to fix this, is the theory of different timelines coexisting which is obviously adopted in Dragon Ball.

Now, lets look at the graphic:

Timeline 1 : This is the original timeline where Goku died with a illness. Its Trunks` original timeline.

Timeline 2: This is the timeline created by Trunks` first time travel. Please notice how everything in that timeline is the same, including the past, and the only differences are the changes caused from the moment Trunks appeared.
In this Timeline. Trunks shows up and saves Goku from dying with the illness, while killing Freeza and his father. He warns him about the androids and leaves to his original timeline, timeline 1. He then travels again to the past, to the timeline he created, timeline 2, after recharging his time machine (with that second voyage he may have created another timeline, but I doubt it, since I think it wouldn`t create a paradox since the timelines are already apart from each other. That second voyage was more like going to another universe than actually time travel to change things. But if it did create another timeline, lets say timeline 2b, the difference would simply be that in one of the timelines Trunks never showed up a second time, while in the other, he did ).
So, anyway, he gets there and they all face the androids. What exactly happens is unknown but they defeat the androids eventually, probably by discovering the secret of the remote control. Trunks goes back to his timeline and also defeats his androids, probably using the remote.
But after that, Cell awakens in timeline 1 and discovers that the androids are gone. It kills Trunks and uses his time machine to go back and change things. Since it last visited timeline 2, there is where Cell goes. But he gets there in a point in time before the original voyage of Trunks. However, this is still the past of timeline 2. It just happens to be equal to the past of timeline 1 before Trunks arrives. The arrival of Cell creates obviously a paradox which brings about the creation of timeline 3.

Timeline 3: this is the timeline of the main story. It was created by Cell`s arrival. It contains the changes that Trunks made to the timeline but it also contains the changes that Cell did to the timeline. Everything happens like we all know it happened with Gohan defeating Perfect Cell. After that, Trunks returns home to his timeline. And this is where a curious thing happens... Trunks travels to timeline 1, just like Trunks, the Trunks that was in Timeline 2, did, but he goes to a point in time before Cell kills him in that timeline, the same Cell that caused the existence of timeline 3. So that obviously created a paradox, and so, yet another timeline was created. A timeline where the Trunks that returned was powerful enough to kill Cell, and not be killed by him.

Timeline 4: this timeline is also shown in the story. It happens when Trunks returns to the future and kills the androids and Cell.


The are however a few problems with this theory:

- Cell told Piccolo (in the main story) that in his timeline Trunks killed Freeza and his father. Obviously that can`t happen with the theory I developed. However, I considered that a plothole. To me, the author had this theory in mind, but he made a mistake when he wrote that part. So to me it doesn`t invalidate the theory, because there are few theories with zero inconsistencies. But I understand that some of you will not think of it that way.

- Cell also told Piccolo that the time machine was already set to the date it arrived. That also doesn`t make sense. It would make more sense if Cell simply chose the date (it shouldn`t be that hard, Cell looks smart). I regard this also as a plothole since there is no logic in Trunks programming the machine to go to that specific point in time.

- When Trunks arrived in the Future to kill the androids and Cell, going by my theory, since everything is the same, except for Trunks being there, there should also be another Trunks there, the one that Cell killed. This however, I can explain. Trunks had no reason to not go back to exactly the same moment in time and the exact same space that Trunks (that was in timeline 2) went back to. The date and everything was probably already programmed in both time machines since they are essentially the same. Since they couldn`t appear both that the same time and place, only one Trunks appeared, the one shown in the story that killed 17, 18 and Cell.


In short... This theory is not perfect...That is impossible to do. But to me is the most logical one, as long as we accept the inconsistencies as simple plotholes, like the ones that exist in the rest of the story. Therefore, I notice this plotholes but I ignore them, just like the topic says :lol:
Neat time travel theory. Here's how I try to look at it. It uses a hybrid of what you say and what daizenshuu 7 suggests (as well DBZ movie 7, since its plot explains how it works with my theory):

-Paradoxes are created only when someone crosses the events of an established time travel point. So Trunks' first trip to 764 creates a new timeline because of a paradox, whereas his second trip to 767 is merely him playing his part in that new timeline, thus no paradox is created, causing no additional timeline. If Trunks were to make a third trip to a point between 764 and 767, he'd be creating a paradox in that new timeline, creating a third timeline.

-Timeline 1 is the timeline that Cell and the original Trunks come from. Trunks goes back in time, creating a paradox and thus TL2 to come into being. He comes back with the remote control, destroys the androids with it, and lives in peace for another three years. When he gets ready to go back and visit the gang, Cell kills him and steals the time machine. He's under the impression that Trunks set the machine to 763 (which is a plothole; why would Trunks visit them at a point one year prior to meeting them?), but actually, it's just going into the past until he runs out of energy (supported by how the time machine is drained when Trunks and Gohan find it). Because he's going to 763, Cell creates a paradox, creating a third timeline.

-Timeline 2 is the timeline that the original Trunks visits. Daizenshuu 7 claims he got the blueprints to the remote control (NOT #17's blueprint like in the manga) here and returned to his timeline to destroy the androids. With no time traveling Cell in this timeline, there's no 4-day period wasted by having the gang chase after Cell. Instead, they go back to the ruins of the lab and manage to find the blueprint to the remote control but not the entrance to the sub-basement. They use them to build a remote and destroy the androids, which pisses off Vegeta, so Vegeta crushes the new remote. Trunks says no worries; his Bulma can make a remote with the blueprints. Movie 7 explains that timelines visited by Trunks (but apparently not Cell) will have the computer in the sub-basement reactivating androids #13, #14, and #15, who give the guys a hard time. This works without causing a plothole, because the manga timeline simply has the sub-basement destroyed at a point prior to their activation, while the strength discrepencies are explained by the fact that they used the remote to destroy #17 and #18.

-Timeline 3 is the timeline created by Cell and is where Trunks comes from. Because he went prior to 764, no time traveling Trunks will be present in 764 or 767 and events will unfold identically to the original timeline. Cell's absence is easily explainable: Piccolo could have killed him (Trunks wouldn't be there to distract him, thus Cell wouldn't have escaped when we first meet him) and Gohan never bothered/remembered to tell Trunks as Cell ended up never being a threat worth mentioning. Another possibility is that the androids kill him and thus Gohan never knew about Cell. Regardless, Trunks grows up in a timeline identical to the original, resulting in him creating an identical timeline and thinking he comes from the original, when in fact he doesn't.

-Timeline 4 is the manga's timeline. Because Trunks goes to 764 instead of a moment prior to 763, he creates a paradox resulting in a new timeline with a time traveling Cell duplicated along with everyone else in that timeline. The events unfold as we see them in the series.

Problems with this theory that I must ignore: it doesn't explain why Trunks warns of #19 and #20 and claims they're too strong for him. I take it to be a retcon that the Kanzenban forgot to fix.

I tend to ignore every other problem, as I understand why Super Boo became Kid instead of Skinny, why androids #19, #20 and #16 aren't present in Trunks' timeline, and having read Dr Slump (which is part of the same universe) has prepared me to accept Gag-manga logic as part of the Dragonworld. This leaves the Bardock in space panel to explain, but I just figure planets' orbits have oxygen in the the Dragonworld. Freeza's comment refers more to the fact that he's about to blow up Namek's supply, so Goku would be floating in empty space.
Captain Christopher Pike wrote:The away team will consist of myself, Cadet Kirk, Mr. Sulu, and Ensign Olsen.
Freeza Heika wrote: for the land of the cool, and the home of the Appule
The Geeky Gentleman: For all your comics, movies, TV and other geeky needs.

User avatar
Kendamu
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 7000
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:31 am
Location: The Martial Arts World

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by Kendamu » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:43 pm

Looks like some people in this thread didn't ignore time travel.

RoarkVegeta
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 1635
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:21 pm
Location: TX

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by RoarkVegeta » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:52 pm

I've always wondered why Mutaito never came back to life.

And how Bardock survived in space. But, I can understand they didn't want to end the TV Special by Bardock going "FREEZAA---" and he falls into the depths of space, dead :P.

User avatar
Tyro
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: USA

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by Tyro » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:06 pm

Piccolo Daimao's claim that he wasn't using even half of his full power.

User avatar
Velasa
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1769
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:55 am
Location: Philly
Contact:

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by Velasa » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:52 pm

The confusing wall of the Time Travel stuff, absolutely. Just looking at those posts hurts my brain and I just have to run to save my life. Then there's "Five minutes". I can't think of other really big stuff right now though.

Then there's just stuff like the fact that Puar is probably male. Screw it, I've been calling and writing her as a girl way too long to just change it, I'll simply be wrong <_< Oh yeah, and that thing Herms or Hujo informed of us once about Fighter-type Nameccians being able to have children. I've invested 11 years of writing in the idea that they can, and.. well there are just certain things you ignore for your own sanity. Like non-gendered Nameccians.

EDIT- Oh yeah, and GT! Can't believe I forget that one.
Last edited by Velasa on Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[quote="Rocketman"]Rocketman is to ChiChi as Velasa is to _______.

A. ChiChi
B. Piccolo
C. Goku
D. Bulma[/quote]

rereboy
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10262
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:42 pm

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by rereboy » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:37 am

Dayspring wrote:Cell's absence is easily explainable: Piccolo could have killed him (Trunks wouldn't be there to distract him, thus Cell wouldn't have escaped when we first meet him) and Gohan never bothered/remembered to tell Trunks as Cell ended up never being a threat worth mentioning. Another possibility is that the androids kill him and thus Gohan never knew about Cell. Regardless, Trunks grows up in a timeline identical to the original, resulting in him creating an identical timeline and thinking he comes from the original, when in fact he doesn't.
This is where you lose me.

If Piccolo had been able to kill Cell, it would mean that he had fused with Kami, which I think is implied it didn`t happen in Trunks` timeline. And I don`t see Cell making the mistake of letting the androids kill him, even if at some point they were more powerful than Cell (Cell managed to evade Piccolo in the main story rather efficiently despite him being stronger than Cell. And he escaped the first time not because of Trunks interference but because of Cell`s mastery of the "tayoken", which Piccolo didn`t see coming, and it would work on the androids just the same).
The logic just feels weird, especially when we know from the series that even one time travel has many unforeseen consequences. The chances of creating another timeline identical to timeline 1, with Cell being the time traveler, are very, very slim...

Everything else is fine, but to me this just doesn`t make sense. At least not when I have another way of explaining it that makes much more sense to me.
To me, it makes more sense that Cell went to timeline 2 (not timeline 1, the timeline where it was at the time) which the machine clearly can do, as proven by Trunks second time travel that didn`t create a paradox, but it just went further down the past. The realities are not separated from a point in time onward, they are fully separated in every point in time, the events just happened differently after a certain point in time. And so, Cell went to timeline 2 thus creating a paradox and creating timeline 3 which contains the changes of trunks time travel and Cell`s time travel. Thats corresponds perfectly to the main story and we do not have to make such a huge leap in logic trying to figure how exactly Cell could have time traveled to that point in time and the future would still result in Trunk`s future. In short, to me its much more logical, especially because both theories share the same plotholes I mentioned.

User avatar
Rory
I Live Here
Posts: 2777
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by Rory » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:13 am

GT. :)

Kiyza
Regular
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:53 pm
Location: Murrika

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by Kiyza » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:42 pm

Just eariler today, I realized that Yamcha lost a tooth in fight with Goku, but not too long after that, he's never shown with a tooth missing again.

rereboy
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10262
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:42 pm

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by rereboy » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:38 pm

Kiyza wrote:Just eariler today, I realized that Yamcha lost a tooth in fight with Goku, but not too long after that, he's never shown with a tooth missing again.
I`m sure there are dentists in Dragon world.

User avatar
Dayspring
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7753
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by Dayspring » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:59 pm

rereboy wrote:
Dayspring wrote:Cell's absence is easily explainable: Piccolo could have killed him (Trunks wouldn't be there to distract him, thus Cell wouldn't have escaped when we first meet him) and Gohan never bothered/remembered to tell Trunks as Cell ended up never being a threat worth mentioning. Another possibility is that the androids kill him and thus Gohan never knew about Cell. Regardless, Trunks grows up in a timeline identical to the original, resulting in him creating an identical timeline and thinking he comes from the original, when in fact he doesn't.
This is where you lose me.

If Piccolo had been able to kill Cell, it would mean that he had fused with Kami, which I think is implied it didn`t happen in Trunks` timeline. And I don`t see Cell making the mistake of letting the androids kill him, even if at some point they were more powerful than Cell (Cell managed to evade Piccolo in the main story rather efficiently despite him being stronger than Cell. And he escaped the first time not because of Trunks interference but because of Cell`s mastery of the "tayoken", which Piccolo didn`t see coming, and it would work on the androids just the same).
The logic just feels weird, especially when we know from the series that even one time travel has many unforeseen consequences. The chances of creating another timeline identical to timeline 1, with Cell being the time traveler, are very, very slim...

Everything else is fine, but to me this just doesn`t make sense. At least not when I have another way of explaining it that makes much more sense to me.
To me, it makes more sense that Cell went to timeline 2 (not timeline 1, the timeline where it was at the time) which the machine clearly can do, as proven by Trunks second time travel that didn`t create a paradox, but it just went further down the past. The realities are not separated from a point in time onward, they are fully separated in every point in time, the events just happened differently after a certain point in time. And so, Cell went to timeline 2 thus creating a paradox and creating timeline 3 which contains the changes of trunks time travel and Cell`s time travel. Thats corresponds perfectly to the main story and we do not have to make such a huge leap in logic trying to figure how exactly Cell could have time traveled to that point in time and the future would still result in Trunk`s future. In short, to me its much more logical, especially because both theories share the same plotholes I mentioned.
My problem with that theory is that your timeline 3 would be paradoxical as of 763, so no Trunks should show up in 764 and 767 to fight Cell along with the others.

As for Piccolo, he could have easily fused with Kami and still gotten killed long before Gohan found out what happened. Remember that the motivation of the androids would be to destroy the world instead of going after Goku, as Goku is already dead. Plus, this fused version of Piccolo would be nothing compared to #17 and #18, as Piccolo wouldn't have trained for three years before fusing. Added to all this, Piccolo was going to give the coup de grace to Cell when he got distracted by Trunks' arrival. If Trunks wasn't there, Cell wouldn't have been able to use the Taiyoken. On top of this, there are plenty of other ways for Cell to be killed: evil androids could easily kill him (intentionally and not) if they attacked Ginger Town or any other town he was at before he was ready to assimilate them. Evil androids would also mean Kami would be fuse right away as opposed to waiting a few hours, so post-fusion, Piccolo could have killed monster-form Cell. Thus, he thinks he'd just be protecting nature, not fighting a weird android. From there, the only difference between the two timelines would be whatever Cell did in monster form during 767.
Captain Christopher Pike wrote:The away team will consist of myself, Cadet Kirk, Mr. Sulu, and Ensign Olsen.
Freeza Heika wrote: for the land of the cool, and the home of the Appule
The Geeky Gentleman: For all your comics, movies, TV and other geeky needs.

User avatar
Shiyonasan
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by Shiyonasan » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:14 pm

As some people have said already, I mainly ignored the inconsistencies and plot-holes. If you want to enjoy Dragon Ball, you have to learn to accept the fact that a lot of things don't make sense, even if some things aren't consistent.
Kiyza wrote:Just eariler today, I realized that Yamcha lost a tooth in fight with Goku, but not too long after that, he's never shown with a tooth missing again.
I watched the last fight between Goku and Tao Pai Pai two days ago, and Goku gets some of his hair chopped off by Tao Pai Pai's sword at one point. They show him with his cut hair in that episode, but in the next episode, his hair has grown back.

It's just a manga/anime/cartoon thing. Unless Yamcha got tooth surgery...

Dr. Casey
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 940
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:05 pm

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by Dr. Casey » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:21 pm

Velasa wrote:
Then there's just stuff like the fact that Puar is probably male. Screw it, I've been calling and writing her as a girl way too long to just change it, I'll simply be wrong <_<
Oh, I forgot about this one. Puar sounds like a girl and has a personality more girlish than boyish. Even if Puar's officially a guy, I'll never be able to think of him as such.

rereboy
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10262
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:42 pm

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by rereboy » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:22 pm

Dayspring

Ah, but Trunks would be there. See, the way I figure it, whenever a timeline is created due to paradox, everything that existed in the old timeline is duplicated. Everything. And that includes Trunks. Future Trunks existed in Timeline 2, it doesn`t matter how he got there, he is part of it and he even influenced it a great deal.
When Cell went with the time machine and created Timeline 3, everything was duplicated. Including Trunks. And that also duplicated Trunks` Time machine. Thats why in the series we see two time machines and realize its the same one. Because it got duplicated due to the creation of another timeline.
But the events turn out differently because of Cell`s presence, obviously.

To me, it wouldn`t make sense to Timeline 3 exist without Trunks... Everything else that existed in timeline 2 was duplicated... The people, planets, etc. Why shouldn`t Trunks also be duplicated if he also exists and is part of that timeline?

The only way for Cell to arrive in a Timeline where Trunks wouldn`t show up to kill Freeza would be if Cell had travelled to Timeline 1 (the original timeline), and not Timeline 2. But he obviously didn`t because in the timeline he arrived Trunks arrived.
Dayspring wrote:
As for Piccolo, he could have easily fused with Kami and still gotten killed long before Gohan found out what happened. Remember that the motivation of the androids would be to destroy the world instead of going after Goku, as Goku is already dead. Plus, this fused version of Piccolo would be nothing compared to #17 and #18, as Piccolo wouldn't have trained for three years before fusing. Added to all this, Piccolo was going to give the coup de grace to Cell when he got distracted by Trunks' arrival. If Trunks wasn't there, Cell wouldn't have been able to use the Taiyoken. On top of this, there are plenty of other ways for Cell to be killed: evil androids could easily kill him (intentionally and not) if they attacked Ginger Town or any other town he was at before he was ready to assimilate them. Evil androids would also mean Kami would be fuse right away as opposed to waiting a few hours, so post-fusion, Piccolo could have killed monster-form Cell. Thus, he thinks he'd just be protecting nature, not fighting a weird android. From there, the only difference between the two timelines would be whatever Cell did in monster form during 767.
It is indeed possible, but I think that there is only a very slim chance of things happening exactly the way they had to happen for the future to turn out exactly like the future Trunks knew. Thats my problem with it. :wink:

User avatar
TripleRach
Moderator
Posts: 2656
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:08 pm
Location: Ohio, USA
Contact:

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by TripleRach » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:51 pm

rereboy wrote:
Kiyza wrote:Just eariler today, I realized that Yamcha lost a tooth in fight with Goku, but not too long after that, he's never shown with a tooth missing again.
I`m sure there are dentists in Dragon world.
In fact, Yamcha and Puar actually talk about visiting a dentist while they're waiting for Gokuu's group to find the Dragon Ball at Mt. Frypan. They did have to sit around for a while, so it's possible they could have visited one during all that downtime.
-Rachel

User avatar
Amigo Ten
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1712
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:00 am
Location: England
Contact:

Re: Stupid things you've ignored.

Post by Amigo Ten » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:13 pm

Krillin and Vegeta's little exchange about his pure evil hear after he becomes a Super Saiyan, along with Piccolo's weird line about distracting the androids by letting #20 hit him. Especially since it didn't distract them.

Post Reply