Why is the "FRIEZA" spelling wrong?

[Gaffer Tape]

Wow. I think my last post just inadvertantly gave me a new insight on this. I've now come to the opinion that Fr ieza is no less accurate a translation than Krillin. Both have roots in FUNimation (if I recall correctly... maybe Krillin has some prior precedent, but not often, I don't think). Both mangle the name pun (but Krillin even moreso). Both require some verbal gymnastics to get there but aren't necessarily wrong based on the romanization. Personally, I don't use either. I use both Freeza and Kuririn, and I don't intend to change. But now it seems to me that there's no logical reason to claim one is okay and not the other.

And as long as I'm the subject, what about Bulma and Bu lla? The latter is universally decried as wrong even though it's no farther away from its pun (Bra) than Bulma is to Bloomers. Yet Bulma is somehow ubiquitously accepted as correct despite being no different.

[Amigo Ten]

Bulma is accepted because when Bulma was introduced for the very first time she was wearing a shirt with "Bulma" written on it in big letters. I suppose if all the characters were introduced like that there wouldn't be any disagreement.

[Olivier Hague]

Bulma is accepted because when Bulma was introduced for the very first time she was wearing a shirt with "Bulma" written on it in big letters. I suppose if all the characters were introduced like that there wouldn't be any disagreement.

Pretty much.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm aware of that, but, as have been said in the last page of this thread, there are other English approximations that Toriyama (a non-native speaker of English) has written that have been immediately dismissed as incorrect. You didn't see dub fans take a look at Kuririn's "Kame Sen Kulilin" hat and go, "I'm gonna stop calling him Krillin now and start calling him Kulilin because that's what's written on his hat!" Same goes for things like Gokuh or Piccoro or Red Ribon. Just because it's on a character's clothing doesn't necessariily mean people are going to flock to it. So it's an empty point.

[verto]

I just wanted to throw something out there. This whole "no sane person would spell it "Fri eza" thing... actually when I firs started getting back into Dragonball, it was because one day I decided to look up the Goku/Fri eza fight on Youtube. Guess which way I spelled it. This was years after DBZ had stopped airing on YTV and honestly I don't think it had anything to do with that one (maybe a few more) Ocean dub title card that spelled his name out. I wouldn't have even known that existed unless someone mentioned it on this site a while ago.

So, while it may not be the best transliteration (seriously is that even a word? I've never heard it before), its not an outlandish spelling, and guess what? Even as a stupid third grader, the pun came across quite clearly, I remember when me and my friends were talking about the show the fact that it had to do with the "freezer" and his dads name was "King Kold" (ZOMGAH that has a letter changed, are people going to understand it means "cold"?) came up.


Yes, I know the "K" in "Kold" isn't a FUNi change, I'm just saying...

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, I think nearly everyone in this thread is performing backwards investigation. They're taking their long-formed opinions and finding facts to support that position, rather than open-mindedly examining the facts and coming to a conclusion, be it the Japanese original Freeza proponents or the FUNimation dub Fr ieza crowd. And that's no way to get anywhere.

[Amigo Ten]

It was on Bulma's clothing from the moment she was introduced, in the manga, which is the point. That's why it's so commonly excepted by everyone. It's not some Funimation-only-name that isn't used by anyone else, like "Bulla" or "Frieza".

"Bulma" may be an odd or unfavourable choice of transliteration, given the pun, but it's universal. It's right there, on her shirt, from the moment we first see her, in the manga and anime, whatever the language or dub you're watching/reading. To try to change that is to go up against a convention used by the whole of the Dragon Ball fandom basically. It might be well intentioned, but it's not worth it and it's never going to happen.

[Amigo Ten]

To sum up, if Freeza's hover chair had had "Frieza" printed on it in his introductory panel in the manga, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Gaffer Tape]

I agree that it's probably never going to happen, but it's certainly worth more than arguing about "ee" or "ie". Like you said, it only exists because people are used to it, not because it's right. And that's the same argument going on in this thread. "Fr ieza was in the dub I grew up with, so I'm going to find a way to justify it!" "Freeza looks better and isn't some stupid FUNimation-ism, so I'm going to find a way to justify it!" "Bulma was on her shirt, so I'm going to find a way to justify it!" "Krillin's easier to say, so I'm going to find a way to justify it!" It's all the same thing. People just finding ways to rationalize their perferences, regardless of whether or not it's right or wrong. And to some extent, that's unavoidable with a topic like this, but it's still the wrong way to objectively come to a conclusion.

And, no, if Fr ieza had been on his hoverchair, we would still be having this conversation because people refute the English wording in the series all the time... except for Bulma.

[Amigo Ten]

Yeah, but everyone is used to Bulma, so there's no division. You don't need to justify it because it's not being chosen over something else.

[Gaffer Tape]

I didn't think this thread was about division or what people were used to. I thought it was about trying to find out what's wrong and what's right, hence the title of the thread.

[Amigo Ten]

And general consensus, on the "It's wrong" side anyway, is that it's wrong because "ie" is a completely random and needless addition/change. "Bulma" isn't the same. Bulma's always been Bulma. It might be "incorrect", but it's universally incorrect. It isn't the same situation as Freeza/Frieza, so you can't really apply the same argument. With Freeza/Frieza, we have two popular terms, with either of which being seen as wring or right, acceptable or unacceptable, etc etc, by various groups of fans. With Bulma... There's just Bulma.

I mean, someone could make a "Why is the BULMA spelling wrong?" topic, and they'd probably get a sensible explanation about the pun, as well as why Bulma is used anyway, and there wouldn't be much more to it than that.

I maintain that if Freeza had been introduced as Frieza, it would be accepted, incorrect or not, because it would be universal. As it turns out, we don't have a universal term, so people want to know which one they should be using, or why one or the other is right or wrong, and so forth.

[Amigo Ten]

Also, in terms of correctness, I think it's easier to understand why someone (especially if they weren't that great with English) would get Bulma from ブルマ/Buruma, than it is to understand why someone to get Frieza from フリーザ/Furiiza.

[Gaffer Tape]

And that's only because it just becomes a topic of, "This is what I'm used to, and you're not going to change my mind" argument. Which is the point I was trying to make, not about universality, not about acceptance, not about origin. All of that is irrelevant to what's happening in this thread. Fr ieza and Bulma are analogous in the fact that they are both reasonable approximations of their respective romanizations (Furiiza and Buruma), but they both muddy up the pun because they were both made somewhat haphazardly by people who weren't sure what they were doing (FUNimation because they're not native Japanese speakers, Toriyama because he's not a native English speaker). There is absolutely no reason why one of these should be accepted and the other one not, or one be decried as wrong while the other one isn't. There is absolutely nothing different about these, except that I would argue that Bulma is far more egregious an offense than Fr ieza. Same with Krillin.

In both cases, the attitudes of the fans are the same: "This is what I'm used to, so I'm going to dig in my heels, stop up my ears, and yell until you go away!" The only difference, as you point out, is that in the Freeza/Fr ieza debate, people are yelling two different things, whereas in the Bulma case, most people are only yelling one thing.

[Silver Sinspawn]

Son of a Tuffle
If you guys are arguing over this now, what will we do when we come to making the Daiz EX Wiki?

[Gaffer Tape]

Hmm, I believe you mean "Son of a Tsufru-jin" or "Son of a Tsufruian." I think we can all agree that Tuffle is just plain wrong.

No need to get all on us. Isn't this kinda the point? To decide what's accurate? Would you prefer just any old spelling to be able to go into the wiki? If that was the case, it'd end up like... well, the current wiki. So chill out.

[Silver Sinspawn]

Hmm, I believe you mean "Son of a Tsufru-jin" or "Son of a Tsufruian." I think we can all agree that Tuffle is just plain wrong.

No need to get all on us. Isn't this kinda the point? To decide what's accurate? Would you prefer just any old spelling to be able to go into the wiki? If that was the case, it'd end up like... well, the current wiki. So chill out.

Well, i forgot how to spell Tsufru-jin, so i just went with what is easy to spell. Point taken, but we should try use them all from the same dub. Preferably Japanese, and anything else can just redirect. In which case we just do what DBWiki do, and just make a template for such things.

[JulieYBM]

Son of a Tuffle
If you guys are arguing over this now, what will we do when we come to making the Daiz EX Wiki?

Well, since it shall be owned and run by Mike...any guesses?

[Gaffer Tape]

Hmm, Alex, I'll go with, "What is 'Freeza?'" with two 'e's. WHOO-HOO! I WON!

Point taken, but we should try use them all from the same dub. Preferably Japanese

I completely agree. However, the argument in this thread stems from the fact that translating between languages that don't precisely match up with one another in phonology or writing or anything leaves some things open to interpretation more than others. Not even Daizenshuu EX and Kanzentai always use the same spelling (Kuririn for the former and Krillin for the latter), nor do they always use the same terminology as, for example, Steve Simmons's official subtitles on the DVDs (Enma-daiou vs. Yama). And even Simmons has admitted that there are some names (like Kibito, which he put as Kibit on the DVDs) that he would go back and re-evaluate if he had the chance.

There are some things that are just plain wrong (like T ien in FUNi's dub or Zero in Harmony Gold's). Most of these come from FUNimation's reversioning, which is a severe strike against Fr ieza's validity. Some, however, fall in a grayer area.

I doubt any two English speaking fans of the Japanese version have the EXACT same preferred translations of every single name. So unless every character's page title is in kana or kanji, there is going to be some room for debate.

[Adamant]

There is absolutely no reason why one of these should be accepted and the other one not, or one be decried as wrong while the other one isn't. There is absolutely nothing different about these, except that I would argue that Bulma is far more egregious an offense than Fr ieza.

One is the spelling consistently used throughout the entire manga from the character's very frst appearance, and one is some completely nonsensical spelling thought up by some late-to-the-party dubbers with little basis in logic, precedence or... anything, really.

Both have roots in FUNimation (if I recall correctly... maybe Krillin has some prior precedent, but not often, I don't think).

"Krilin" and "Krillin" were both relatively common among localizers before Funi came along.