Schemmel: "The Ocean Group is doing their own dub"

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

Funny, the site says Dave Ward voiced Kame-sen'nin. Was this only for the films?

Dave Ward never did voice Roshi. That was an old error from years ago that stuck around. Don Brown voiced Roshi in movies 1-3.

Clearly, I know Jeremiah Yurk (as you know from Westwood's DBGT) will do Kai soon enough.

Huh? If there is any truth to an Ocean Kai actually happening, it had better not be done by the Calgary-based Blue Water cast. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they don't go with the Vancouver-based actors.

[penguintruth]

Blue Water... just typing the name makes me vomit a little in my mouth.

Yeah, they need to stick with the main Ocean crew. Blue Water is a cesspool of terrible dubs.

[bkev]

Am I the only one who defends blue water? I rather liked Zoe Slusar as Goku, and they did a phenomenal job on G Gundam. Can't speak for any other series though.


Anyway, I wouldn't worry about that. Silverplague is only getting worse with his BS.

[TheMajinRedComet]

I agree they did great on G Gundam, but most of their dubs in general are sub par IMO.

[JulieYBM]

Eh? Their G Gundam dub was pretty bad. Terrible, terrible acting and the same five or so actors providing all of the character roles.

If the Ocean Group is doing a dub, I'd suspect it be with the Vancouver guys...if not we'll wind up with Yamcha and Trunks having the same voice actor...

[ThunderPX]

Clearly, I know Jeremiah Yurk (as you know from Westwood's DBGT) will do Kai soon enough.

Huh? If there is any truth to an Ocean Kai actually happening, it had better not be done by the Calgary-based Blue Water cast. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they don't go with the Vancouver-based actors.

You're best off ignoring SilverPlaque entirely, he's a troll.

[NeoKING]

Blue Water... just typing the name makes me vomit a little in my mouth.

Yeah, they need to stick with the main Ocean crew. Blue Water is a cesspool of terrible dubs.

Something tells me that you must be a phenomenal voice actor, provided all the shit you talk about virtually everything dubbed about Dragon Ball in general. It's not as easy a job as you might think.

[VegettoEX]

Something tells me that you must be a phenomenal voice actor, provided all the shit you talk about virtually everything dubbed about Dragon Ball in general. It's not as easy a job as you might think.

I don't need to be an author to be a book critic. I don't need to be a musician to be a music critic. I don't need to be a director to be a movie critic.

Why would someone need to be a voice actor to be a voice critic?

[NeoKING]

Something tells me that you must be a phenomenal voice actor, provided all the shit you talk about virtually everything dubbed about Dragon Ball in general. It's not as easy a job as you might think.

I don't need to be an author to be a book critic. I don't need to be a musician to be a music critic. I don't need to be a director to be a movie critic.

Why would someone need to be a voice actor to be a voice critic?

Excuse me, but there's a world of difference between criticizing something and getting super-asshurt over it because it ain't your Japanese voice actors then insulting it at every chance you get.

[KaiserNeko]

Something tells me that you must be a phenomenal voice actor, provided all the shit you talk about virtually everything dubbed about Dragon Ball in general. It's not as easy a job as you might think.

I don't need to be an author to be a book critic. I don't need to be a musician to be a music critic. I don't need to be a director to be a movie critic.

Why would someone need to be a voice actor to be a voice critic?

Excuse me, but there's a world of difference between criticizing something and getting super-asshurt over it because it ain't your Japanese voice actors then insulting it at every chance you get.

Dude, seriously. You're making (though sort of an educated) assumption that he's criticizing the Westwood/BlueWater group because they're dub actors, not because they're bad.

They're bad. The G-Gundam dub was terrible, the Hunter X Hunter dub was mediocre, and their DragonBall GT dub was absolutely horrendous. It has nothing to do with the voices, either, it's the direction and very possibly the actors themselves. Their dubs are just, flat out, not very good and I rarely meet anyone with a differing opinion.

I also agree with Mike. Most food critics do not know how to prepare a lot of dishes they enjoy!

[Li'l Lemmy]

I don't need to be an author to be a book critic. I don't need to be a musician to be a music critic. I don't need to be a director to be a movie critic.

While this is certainly true, it can be argued that an opinion becomes more credible and authoritative when influenced by personal experience in that particular field. I take the opinions of DaizenshuuEX seriously because I'm acutely aware of the investment you've put into knowing the Dragon World, for example, and not simply because you are one of the largest sites still standing. I don't necessarily agree with those opinions at all times, but I respect their weight more than a site that popped up last week whose opinions just so happen to match my own.


~Da Lemmy

[Innagadadavida]

I wouldn't listen to a music critic unless he or she were a musician.

[VegettoEX]

Oh, please. Let's not be fanboy-dramatic with whining about someone else's proverbial "asshurt". You're not going to be taken seriously if that's all you can bring to the table.

I don't need to be an author to be a book critic. I don't need to be a musician to be a music critic. I don't need to be a director to be a movie critic.

While this is certainly true, it can be argued that an opinion becomes more credible and authoritative when influenced by personal experience in that particular field. I take the opinions of DaizenshuuEX seriously because I'm acutely aware of the investment you've put into knowing the Dragon World, for example, and not simply because you are one of the largest sites still standing. I don't necessarily agree with those opinions at all times, but I respect their weight more than a site that popped up last week whose opinions just so happen to match my own.

I never said the opposite. You've done a fine job in outlining exactly why you might put more stock in the opinions of someone because of their authority, but you've also perfectly validated what I was just describing.

I have nothing to do with the production of DragonBall. I've never animated anything in my life. I can barely draw a stick figure. I can't compose music. I've done a little bit of voice direction, but that's in a completely different (marketing / commercial production) area. I've done some video editing, and sure, some of it was also professionally, but again... in totally different areas. I have no education in creative writing.

I literally have zero professional credentials to back up the vast majority of criticisms and praise I have directed at the franchise (never mind its various productions) over the last... what?... 14 years? 15 years? And yet you still find something in there of value and authority.

I wouldn't listen to a music critic unless he or she were a musician.

You must not listen to many music critics...! That's OK. Neither do I .

KaiserNeko did a great job outlining why someone might take issue with Blue Water material. I mean, the sole fact alone that they're a B-list / C-list studio should tell you something right off the bat. That's not even saying something about the fan interpretation, that's saying something way above you at the production level of things -- something is seen as "B-list" of a franchise enough to farm it out to the "B-list" dubbing studio in the area. Of course that will then trickle down to its audience, and give them a reputation.

Also, the food critic example was one I left out. Touché!

[Super Sayian Prime]

Blue Water's Pretty Cure, and DragonBall (not GT) dubs were pretty solid. But I'm not gonna kid myself here, they're the low budget arm of Ocean who hires inexperienced actors and gives them some work. They're not the bottom of the barrel (Odex is), but you're scratching awfully close with them.

If Ocean does a dub for Kai, it'll most likely be a Vancouver cast unless they have a $5 budget.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I have nothing to do with the production of DragonBall. I've never animated anything in my life. I can barely draw a stick figure. I can't compose music. I've done a little bit of voice direction, but that's in a completely different (marketing / commercial production) area. I've done some video editing, and sure, some of it was also professionally, but again... in totally different areas. I have no education in creative writing.

I literally have zero professional credentials to back up the vast majority of criticisms and praise I have directed at the franchise (never mind its various productions) over the last... what?... 14 years? 15 years? And yet you still find something in there of value and authority.

I did, in truth, consider the more literal context while I was typing my response. It's difficult to further validate my argument when taking into account your absolute lack of involvement with the show itself, because yeah-- the site is just one huge opinion, pretty much.

I'm not prepared to argue that being or having been involved in the field makes you more "qualified" to critique that field. It doesn't. Rather, it may simply expand your ability to do so effectively. My real problem is with "bad" critics. It's true that anyone who has an opinion can be a critic. But because of this, it becomes equally true that there's a ton of idiots out there who will call themselves critics when they don't know even the first thing about how to be objective. I prefer someone who knows at least a little something about what he's chosen to critique to a blowhard who merely shouts an opinion for the sake of being heard.

I'm not referring to anyone in this thread, mind you. o.o


~Da Lemmy

[MajinVejitaXV]

I have nothing to do with the production of DragonBall. I've never animated anything in my life. I can barely draw a stick figure. I can't compose music. I've done a little bit of voice direction, but that's in a completely different (marketing / commercial production) area. I've done some video editing, and sure, some of it was also professionally, but again... in totally different areas. I have no education in creative writing.

I literally have zero professional credentials to back up the vast majority of criticisms and praise I have directed at the franchise (never mind its various productions) over the last... what?... 14 years? 15 years? And yet you still find something in there of value and authority.

I agree with this 100%. Besides, knowledge of a given field is such a massive variable. Like I said, for instance, I'm a musician but I've had no formal training. I'm just now actually learning music theory at 26, but I believe that (because of my upbringing, being exposed to music in my family from my birth) I have always had an innate ability to hear distinct elements of music and give a fairly good reason for why it's good or bad. Is it subjective? Oh hells yes. I don't try and pass it off as irrefutable gospel merely because I have a musical background (which was one of my main problems with Schemmel's post).

Having knowledge can help, no doubt, in formulating a compelling argument about something when making criticisms, but a lot of times people merely rest on their qualifications instead. A sort of 'elitism'. Which, btw, I find hilarious since people like Heath, Mike and myself are supposedly elitists per some of our detractors. ;p

Now, of course, the counter to this is that you can't merely say something 'sucks' and walk away (well, you can, but you'll come off as an ass or a troll). That, in my opinion, is the problem we encounter oftentimes. People dislike something but aren't able to articulate in an intelligent manner what about it is unpleasant to them (i.e. - "I don't like the way Japanese sounds, it's gay.").

Long story short, I'd rather have someone with no formal training/knowledge of a field give a well-written/spoken opinion of something as opposed to someone with experience in a given field merely saying something is bad or good and using their background as the only support (i.e. - "...as far as music is concerned I have vast experience in that area, so when I tell you the music will suck, aside from your own subjective experience, I'm pretty qualified to talk about the
suckiness of music or not.").

[Li'l Lemmy]

Having knowledge can help, no doubt, in formulating a compelling argument about something when making criticisms, but a lot of times people merely rest on their qualifications instead. A sort of 'elitism'. Which, btw, I find hilarious since people like Heath, Mike and myself are supposedly elitists per some of our detractors. ;p

Y'all ain't elitists because of your wealth of intuition and experience; you're elitists because you own all the R2 DragonBoxes. Get it straight, ya friggin' douche. ^_~

Now, of course, the counter to this is that you can't merely say something 'sucks' and walk away (well, you can, but you'll come off as an ass or a troll). That, in my opinion, is the problem we encounter oftentimes. People dislike something but aren't able to articulate in an intelligent manner what about it is unpleasant to them (i.e. - "I don't like the way Japanese sounds, it's gay.").

That's my real problem. We see so much of it, particularly here. It's not enough to simply quote your opinion and the fact that you're entitled to one; I expect that opinion to be quantified by reasoning, experience or (preferably) a combination of the two with perhaps a splash of personal taste, or at least I expect that out of any opinion I'll bother with. I could be wrong, but I think that most people would share my preference.


~Da Lemmy

[ThegreatPirateKing]

The only reason I love the Ocean dub of Dragon Ball GT is due to it being what aired over here when I was a kid. I have to admit that while I haven't seen much of it since then, I still like their opening (It may be shorted but at least they used the original backing track and the English singer sounded similar to a degree) and the fact they used the original soundtrack. However, once FUNimation released GT with both of those, I would rather turn to that since it has what I liked about the old dub with (debatable) better acting.

About being a critic. Yes, while it does help to have some expertise in that area so that the ability to analyse the subject would be far better than someone without that experience, that doesn't mean the less experienced person can't have an opinion. I personally think Field of View, while being able to create melodies to a reasonable degree, have a very uninspired vocalist and cannot make a decent song longer than 2 minutes. Do I have experience in the music industry to be able to say I could out do them? I could try but considering I can't play an musical instrument, I doubt I could. Experience only means you understand it better, not be able to do it better.

[JulieYBM]

Blue Water's Pretty Cure, and DragonBall (not GT) dubs were pretty solid. But I'm not gonna kid myself here, they're the low budget arm of Ocean who hires inexperienced actors and gives them some work. They're not the bottom of the barrel (Odex is), but you're scratching awfully close with them.

If Ocean does a dub for Kai, it'll most likely be a Vancouver cast unless they have a $5 budget.

Having some experience with the Blue Water dub of the Dragon Ball stuff, I can support this one hundred percent. Zoe Slusar's Kid Gokû is probably the most grating I have ever heard in my entire life. Piccolo, Redict, Cell, and a host of other characters are all done by Ethan Cole (Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam's Jerid Messa, Mobile Fighter G Gundam's Chibodee) and have almost zero difference between their performances. Matthew Erikson voices Trunks in Dragon Ball GT and Yamcha in Dragon Ball, while the voice of Goten voices Kuririn in Dragon Ball. They're bad off, and for the most part poorly performed.

[Innagadadavida]

That's my real problem. We see so much of it, particularly here. It's not enough to simply quote your opinion and the fact that you're entitled to one; I expect that opinion to be quantified by reasoning, experience or (preferably) a combination of the two with perhaps a splash of personal taste, or at least I expect that out of any opinion I'll bother with. I could be wrong, but I think that most people would share my preference.

I do. There's a huge difference between some users and users like VegettoEX, Hujio, and MajinVegetaXV. When the latter posts their opinion, they usually provide examples, expand on the topic at hand, and don't say things just to say them. I feel like some users around here are just bitter and post negative posts whenever they're reminded of something. Although these two groups usually share the same opinions and attitude, I respect the latter way way more. It's always a pleasure to read something that's well thought out and backed with research and years of experience, even if I don't agree with it.