Boo arc too repetitive at times?

[Blue]

Also, Toriyama pulled the entire series out of his ass. Nothing was ever planned beforehand. It's just more abundant here.

Exactly, so if it's this noticeable that's saying something.

[Majin Buu]

I never said that Buu was weak. I said he wasn't an interesting villain. He just felt like Broly. Yes, he was a huge threat, but what else was he outside of that? He was merely an "enemy," whereas King Piccolo, Freeza, and Cell felt like actual villains. Buu just felt like the big guy that did a bunch of stuff, and nothing more. He was just one-dimensional, and didn't really do anything to make the viewers feel any sort of personal connection to the story.

Piccolo Daimao was one dimensional. Cell was one dimensional. The only one you mentioned that wasn't was Freeza.

What's the difference between an "enemy" and a "villain" in your view?

Also, Buu didn't do anything that made the viewers feel any connection to the story? He freaking killed almost the entire cast and destroyed the world.

Sure, the Buu saga had a lot of internal storylines, but the overall storyline was virtually nonexistant.

[/quote]

What was the overall storyline of the Cell arc outside of "defeat Cell?" What was the overall storyline of the Piccolo Daimao arc outside of "defeat Piccolo Daimao?" What was the overall storyline of the Saiyan arc outside of "defeat the Saiyans?"

[jjgp1112]

An enemy is someone who just destroys stuff, gets everybody scared, etc.

A villain is someone who's actually, y'know interesting. He has a reason for his actions, a good backstory, does stuff more involved than destroying things, actually has a rivalry or personal connection with one of or several of the characters, etc.

Piccolo, Frieza, and Cell possessed the qualities of an actual villain. Buu would just be good for a Movie, but that's it.

The internal storylines in the Frieza and Cell sagas actually contribute to the overall storyline while with the Buu saga, a lot of stuff like Vegeta's internal struggle were almost independent of the actual storyline. The other two sagas had internal aspects that further fleshed out the storyline.

And plus, as Mike mentioned before, the transformations were no longer even special. They were just, "Hey, look what I can do now!" The SSJ3 transformation was completely out the left field and while it was cool, what impact did it really have?

[Blue]

Also, Toriyama pulled the entire series out of his ass. Nothing was ever planned beforehand. It's just more abundant here.

That's kind of my point, He can base an entire series on ideas that popped into his head as he went along. It just seems like he had absolutely no idea where to go with this story and he didn't care at this point. It was sloppy.

That's kind of another reason why I like the Buu arc, it has an "anything goes" feel to it. Now, more than in the previous arcs, you truly get the sense that anything can happen here.

It's unpredictable in all the wrong ways though. It's not a happy "I didn't see that coming!" it's a "You made me wait all that time and THIS is what happens!?" Sure it was unpredictable that Gohan spent a ton of episodes creating an ultimate power and then gets absorbed in 2. That doesn't mean it was a great move plot wise.

[Vegeta Jr]

Wow you just gave me a great Idea, the entire Buu saga should have been condensed into a movie.

The real continuation of the Cell saga should have had Gohan as the hero, the villain should have been Dabura (but a lot stronger) with lots of dimension shifting and characters being trapped in their own personal hell and having to escape, and also a Gohan and Piccolo fusion.

Ending of Z should have been a wish to revive Goku with a hand on Gohan's shoulder as the last shot.

[jjgp1112]

Also, Toriyama pulled the entire series out of his ass. Nothing was ever planned beforehand. It's just more abundant here.

That's kind of my point, He can base an entire series on ideas that popped into his head as he went along. It just seems like he had absolutely no idea where to go with this story and he didn't care at this point. It was sloppy.

That's kind of another reason why I like the Buu arc, it has an "anything goes" feel to it. Now, more than in the previous arcs, you truly get the sense that anything can happen here.

It's unpredictable in all the wrong ways though. It's not a happy "I didn't see that coming!" it's a "You made me wait all that time and THIS is what happens!?" Sure it was unpredictable that Gohan spent a ton of episodes creating an ultimate power and then gets absorbed in 2. That doesn't mean it was a great move plot wise.

Yeah, there's a difference between a swerve that you really didn't expect and are excited to see happen and a swerve where the only reason why you didn't predict is was because you figured the writer had enough sense not to actually include it in the storyline.

Trust me, I watch wrestling, which has so many stupid swerves that when storylines don't have swerves, that's the swerve itself!

[Kid Buu]

Buu arc repetitive? I don't think so. Personally I think the Cell Saga is the most repeating saga in the show. Gohan vs Cell was an overrated battle in my opinion and not as epic as the other battles against the final villain. Not to mention much like the Freeza fight it was decided by yet another Super Saiyan transformation.

Not in Buu Saga sir. Fusion was fun concept. Sure Piccolo did it with Kami and Nail but he remained being Piccolo. This time around we see two beings becoming a brand new being. Also, absorption was another fun idea that I didn't except. Yeah Cell did it but we mostly knew about it and he was only really after the Androids anyway. Buu on the other hand it came as a great surprise and he actually managed to absorb the Z Fighters.

Finally the saga returns from the fused and mystic warriors back to Goku & Vegeta to save the day. The original fighters return to battle Buu with the exact same strength they had before. I hadn't seen anything like this since Gohan & Krillin had to defeat Vegeta despite failing to defeat the much weaker Nappa.



I got that picture from the website, it's my favourite Chibi Buu picture ever. I love his sinister smile in it. Freeza and Cell are good villains too but they don't compare to Buu in my opinion. Freeza had an awesome personality but he lacked a background story and had way too many transformations. Once and even twice was okay but three transformation was too much for me (EDIT: I don't count absorptions as transformations). Cell had a fun personality too but he just felt anti-climatic to me. I can't explain why but he just does...mainly because all he does in his final form is want to host a martial arts tournament? Yeah...

[jjgp1112]

Wait a minute, you think that Frieza has too many transformations, yet still think Buu was a better villain?

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

Frieza:

2nd form
3rd form
4th form

Buu:
Evil Buu
Super Buu
Gotenks Buu
Mystic Buu
Kid Buu

[Vegeta Jr]

So you hate how Freeza has 4/5 transformations but are a-ok that Buu has a grand total of 8.

Fat Buu
Evil Buu
Super Buu
Super Piccolo Buu
Super Gotenks Buu
Super Gohan Buu
Kid Buu
Buff Buu

[Blue]

I'm really not trying to rain on a harmless post, just a few counter points.

Not in Buu Saga sir. Fusion was fun concept. Sure Piccolo did it with Kami and Nail but he remained being Piccolo. This time around we see two beings becoming a brand new being.

It is a fun concept, I wouldn't mind it had it been set up in any way shape or form outside of Goku going "Oh hey guys look at the new form and new technique that happens to fit this exact situation perfectly! I learned this when I was out flying around space off camera, what a coincidence huh?" That and if they didn't have two forms of fusion that came along within a week of each other, talk about redundant I'm watching Dragonball and my suspense of disbelief is pretty high but not THAT high.

Freeza had an awesome personality but he lacked a background story and had way too many transformations. Once was okay but three transformation plus the fact that in his final form he doubled his power was just too much for me.

Fat Boo, Evil Boo, Super Boo, Kid Boo. That's more or less the same amount of transformations as Freeza, and I'm not even counting Super Boo with different people absorbed.

Edit: Beaten at that second part like an Earthling on Planet Vegeta

[LeprikanGT]

*Reads original post*

Thats the same thing that happens on Namek.

Base Frieza transforms because of Vegeta.
2nd Frieza transforms because of Piccolo.
3rd Frieza transforms because of Gohan.
Final Frieza transforms because of Goku.

[Vegeta Jr]

*Reads original post*

Thats the same thing that happens on Namek.

1 Base Freeza transforms because of Vegeta.
2 2nd Freeza transforms because of Piccolo.
3 3rd Freeza transforms because of Gohan.
4 Final Freeza transforms because of Goku.

1 Of his own free will to show off his superiority, not because he was in anyway shape or form in any danger.
2 Yep
3 Nope, same as 1.
4 Yep

2/4 ain't bad.

[Kid Buu]

Depends on how you view it, I don't count the absorptions as transformations. Neither do I count Evil Buu as a transformation, he is another being of his own. Kind of like Piccolo Daimao and the current Piccolo. So that leaves Kid Buu, Fat Buu & Super Buu. Also I like how those three all had completely different personalities, it was more that way.

By the way, despite the username and the Buu Saga defending I do want people to know Freeza is actually my favourite arc in the Dragon Ball series. Mostly the stuff with early stuff with Vegeta and the Dragonballs.

[Vegeta Jr]

Absorption is just a fancy name for transformation, do you not count Imperfect Cell 2 and Perfect Cell as transformations either?

[Kid Buu]

Absorbption is just a fancy name for transformations, do you not count Imperfect Cell 2 and Perfect Cell as transformations either?

I do, because that is how I felt Cell treated it. I don't count Imperfect Cell absorbing random human beings in the city to be a transformation however.

[Vegeta Jr]

That's exactly how Buu treated it, it was a way of increasing his strength due to being overpowered that also changed his appearance.

[LeprikanGT]

@vegeta jr: he DID transform because of Gohan right after Gohan shot that huge Masenko at him and pinned him down.

[Kid Buu]

That's exactly how Buu treated it, it was a way of increasing his strength due to being overpowered that also changed his appearance.

Changed his appearance? It made his antenna longer and added clothes but that was about it.

It's look like we will have to agree to disagree on that subject.

One thing I do dislike about the Buu Saga is the Supreme Kai. Probably my least favourite character in the whole series, guy just bugged throughout the whole thing.

[LeprikanGT]

If he had on different clothes and his body looked different.....that's his appearance changing.

[caejones]

Re: Buu's personality.

Fat Buu, at least, had character happening. We even had Babidi's grudge with Kaioshin and all of that, but Buu didn't really care about any of it, and was used to being treated as a monster. And then was sorta kinda treated as not a monster, and ... Yeah.

What the Buu saga lacks is the journey elements that the Saiyan-namek arc had, and there was a lot of chasing around and sneaking and such with Cell as well.
There was a little of this in the early Buu arc, but it wasn't as epic as the previous arcs.

Super Buu, though? He was just doing stuff because he wanted to fight someone.

All the convenient random powerups and ... Hm.

*Ponders things*