Ending of DragonBall GT

[DBZimran]

Recently I listened to 'Podcast Episode 91'. The topic of the podcast was the ending of DragonBall GT. There was a concept that I think Mike mentioned in the podcast that I accepted straight away, but I never thought of it - the idea that Goku was the embodiment or carrier of the DragonBalls. It is like Shenron and Goku made a agreement as Mike said in the podcast. So I think that Goku is the temporary guardian for the DragonBalls until they can be used again 'sensibly' or 'moderately'. What do you guys think on the ending of GT?

P.S. - Sorry if this has already been talked about on another topic post.

[Big Momma]

The ending of GT is my personal favorite ending to the series. And it does make sense for Goku to be the Guardian of the dragonballs. I don't know when this agreement could have been made. Maybe it was just one of those things where Shen Long looked Goku and the eyes and he understood. (That would explain Goku understanding when Shen Long said "Let's Go")

[DBZimran]

The ending of GT is my personal favorite ending to the series. And it does make sense for Goku to be the Guardian of the dragonballs.

Yeah this ending is far more sad and a more of a 'wrapping up' of the whole of the DragonBall world. A far more emotional, and sentimental ending than the one for DragonBall Z.

Maybe it was just one of those things where Shen Long looked Goku and the eyes and he understood. (That would explain Goku understanding when Shen Long said "Let's Go")

Yeah probably; I before listening to 'Podcast Episode 91' thought he went of to Other World to recieve training from the Grand Kai. Vegata in the DUB does say something along the lines of "Your going to train alone!" So it could be that he has gone to recieve the training from the Grand Kai or he is just become one with Shenron.

Oh I'm sure the Grand Kai mentioned something like you will be trained after ... many years.

[Vegeta Jr]

The ending of GT wasn't sad, it was insanely confusing and even further mindfucked me with the GT movie/special/OVA whatever it is.

[DBZimran]

The ending of GT wasn't sad, it was insanely confusing and even further mindfucked me with the GT movie/special/OVA whatever it is.

Yes, I agree to a extent. The beginning portion of 'Episode 64' was "insanely confusing", though by sadness I think I was fully referring to the end of the episode when Goku is walking and a 'Flash Back' is played of the previous two series. I agree that the the special made no sense at all and was honestly irrelevant.

[VegettoEX]

Thought I obviously wouldn't recommend responding in the thread (since it's from two and a half years ago), note that Episode #0091 had its own response thread (as does every episode), so you can browse through some more opinions over there.

Also, I'd just like to point out that those bold-red corrections are not automatic -- the moderators are specifically correcting all of your posts. For example, not once in your entire reign of posting have you capitalized the word "I" when it doesn't start a sentence. Please review the forum rules and remember that you are expected to type properly in all of your posts.

[DBZimran]

Thought I obviously wouldn't recommend responding in the thread (since it's from two and a half years ago), note that Episode #0091 had its own response thread (as does every episode), so you can browse through some more opinions over there.

Also, I'd just like to point out that those bold-red corrections are not automatic -- the moderators are specifically correcting all of your posts. For example, not once in your entire reign of posting have you capitalized the word "I" when it doesn't start a sentence. Please review the forum rules and remember that you are expected to type properly in all of your posts.

Sorry Mike, I'll be sure to capitalize those I's (It is a crazy habit). Yeah I will be certainly having a browse on the response thread for 'Episode 91'.

[Cipher]

Thought I obviously wouldn't recommend responding in the thread (since it's from two and a half years ago), note that Episode #0091 had its own response thread (as does every episode), so you can browse through some more opinions over there

It's a fairly broad topic though. You don't think it warrants new discussion every once in a while?

Personally, I have my own reading of the ending. I'm not sure it's what the producers intended (if they even intended anything other than being cryptic for cryptic's sake), but it's one I've come to like. I think it's very possible that the evil dragons were never truly a threat.

Bare with. Goku dies. I know it's a subject of some debate, but the series seems to go out of its way to imply that he was more than just knocked cold by that blast. Characters can't sense him. Shen-Long very pointedly revives him with his classic eye-glow, again after he collapses and characters seem to think he's died on the spot. Pan, of course, finds the shredded remains of his gi. So what was Goku wearing? Was he ethereal by that point? Finally, as he says good-bye to the cast, they all let out that infamous, "Goku, are you ... ?" I don't know about anyone else, but the last word there seems with all implications to be "dead."

Now remember, when Yi Xing Long blasts Goku as he's holding up the Genki Dama, he's convinced those hits should be killing him. And from everything we know about their powers, he's right. And what does Goku say? "I can't die until I've defeated you." What if he meant this literally?

What if Shen-Long clued Goku in on some sort of deal at his moment of death? As in, literally, he would live until he defeated the dragon, and then act as Shen-Long's vessel/spirit/what have you for the Dragon Balls as he took them away. In this way, the dragons were never an actual threat; they had to be defeated. It was merely a question of sacrifice.

It makes a bit of sense. Super Saiyan 4 is a power hundreds of times stronger than the gods, stronger than Buu, stronger than everything. And then some dragon from Earth's Dragon Balls, minus energy aside, shows up that can smack them around like nothing? So if some normal person had abused the balls, it would have been absolutely hopeless? Seems like a tailor-made threat for our heroes. Shen-Long/the Dragon Balls don't really have a motivation for destroying Earth in the first place. But a system in place to teach a lesson seems to make sense.

So my reading: The evil dragons had to be defeated. But Goku was the price of their defeat. There's just too much emphasis on Goku's "death" and his "I can't die until I've defeated you" line to not warrant a deeper look.

[Nils_McCloud]

I never really thought too much about it, what with it all being so ambiguous...

But reading Cipher's "analysis", if you will, it all seems to make perfect sense. I really like your interpretation of this ending .

[DBZimran]

It makes a bit of sense. Super Saiyan 4 is a power hundreds of times stronger than the gods, stronger than Buu, stronger than everything. And then some dragon from Earth's Dragon Balls, minus energy aside, shows up that can smack them around like nothing? So if some normal person had abused the balls, it would have been absolutely hopeless? Seems like a tailor-made threat for our heroes. Shen-Long/the Dragon Balls don't really have a motivation for destroying Earth in the first place. But a system in place to teach a lesson seems to make sense.

So my reading: The evil dragons had to be defeated. But Goku was the price of their defeat. There's just too much emphasis on Goku's "death" and his "I can't die until I've defeated you" line to not warrant a deeper look.

You have wrote quite a reasonable explanation to this. The level of strength in the world of DragonBall has always been as:
'A strong opponant appears, the heroes must get stronger to beat this new foe'. I think that it could be a coincidence, that the power level of Li Shenron was on 'par' with Super Saiyan 4.

Also, great point on the "I can't die until I've defeated you" line. Couldn't it refer to the morals of Goku, not wanting to die during battle, and knowing the world is in a state of peace before he dies.

[Cipher]

Also, great point on the "I can't die until I've defeated you" line. Couldn't it refer to the morals of Goku, not wanting to die during battle, and knowing the world is in a state of peace before he dies.

Normally I wouldn't read into it; it's a very Goku thing to say. It's just that it's juxtaposed against so much other evidence that he actually did die. I mean, Ii Shen-Long is (rightfully) shocked as hell that those blasts aren't killing Goku just before he says that.

[VegettoEX]

Ii Shen-Long

Shinron. Ii-Shinron. (Or, if you will, "Yi Xing Long")

He's a "Star Dragon", not a "God Dragon".

/me zips back away again

[Cipher]

Ii Shen-Long

Shinron. Ii-Shinron. (Or, if you will, "Yi Xing Long")

He's a "Star Dragon", not a "God Dragon".

/me zips back away again

You know, I'm sure I knew this at one point. My bad. I'm sure that was irritating to read for anyone in the know.

I suppose the Chinese romanization makes more sense than romanizing the Japanese approximation in the first place. I'll switch to that from here out.

[DBZimran]

I mean, Ii Shen-Long is (rightfully) shocked as hell that those blasts aren't killing Goku just before he says that.

Yeah, I guess. This is a great insight into Shenron.

[MCDaveG]

I always thought that Goku died, my brother cried hell a lot...... And he asked me: ''What's up with Goku?'' and I replied: ''He's dead....... but that's okay because this isn't in that manga I have!''

[Freeza Heika]

I just want point to my signature.


Thank you, that is all.

[Big Momma]

I think Cipher just won the whole thread. At least in my book, that's a darn-good explanation

[SylentEcho]

I thought that Goku became the Dragonballs or took Shen Long's place because he grants Goku Jr. his wish and disappears.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

While I will agree that the GT ending is confusing (and the T.V special doesn't help either), but at least it's heartfelt and not random and abrupt like the Z ending.

[MCDaveG]

But you know, when I'm thinking about that matter. I find the Z ending better, because simply Goku and Uub went training.... END. It doesn't give you plenty of unexplained questions and it's great open ending and set for possible sequel to Dragon Ball.
But at the end of GT, you are looking at that: ''What the hell just happened actually?!'' And for me it doesn't work after screwed series. I like GT, or better say, I enjoy GT, but that story isn't that good as the original one, it's rushed and lot of plotholes occured in comparisson to the original story and at the end, you got this epic ending? I don't know, it's mysterious......