The most famous controversy - Goku's Japanese voice

[Amigo Ten]

Because Boo should be subtle...?

[Li'l Lemmy]

Masako Nozawa as Tullece is one of my all time favourite performances in the series, she takes the Goku when know and love and twists him into this suave, creepy villain.

I think the role would have been best served (dub-wise) with a variation of Schemmel's Super Saiyan 4 inflection. It already sounds quasi-evil, so it wouldn't take much tweaking.


~Da Lemmy

[Gaffer Tape]

And as for Boo's dub voice, I think it was absolutely woeful and was yet another shining example of FUNimation only being able to get their point across with a sledgehammer.

So...it's basically what Toei did with Goku, as an adult?

No... because Toei wasn't trying to make a point. They simply had an actress playing a character and chose to... continue to have that actress play the same character. While those of us who like Nozawa as all ages of Goku might point to the character and personality as legitimate reasons why the voice fit, the actual reason the voice fits is because it's one actor creating one character, and portraying that character throughout that character's life.

[Savage68]

No... because Toei wasn't trying to make a point. They simply had an actress playing a character and chose to... continue to have that actress play the same character.

The problem is, this makes it even worse. At some point, people do (physically) mature and Toei should've let Goku's voice represent that. I know plenty of adults that act like childlike, but if they had child voices, they'd be considered freaks. Heck, my personality has barely changed from what it was 5 years ago, but my voice sure has changed considerably. A person's voice should match what they look like before it matches their personality. Appearance always takes priority here.

[Amigo Ten]

It does match though. It's a perfect match. You hear that voice coming out of that face and it just works.

[Gaffer Tape]

No... because Toei wasn't trying to make a point. They simply had an actress playing a character and chose to... continue to have that actress play the same character.

The problem is, this makes it even worse. At some point, people do (physically) mature and Toei should've let Goku's voice represent that. I know plenty of adults that act like childlike, but if they had child voices, they'd be considered freaks. Heck, my personality has barely changed from what it was 5 years ago, but my voice sure has changed considerably. A person's voice should match what they look like before it matches their personality. Appearance always takes priority here.

Here's the Catch-22... you're breaking reality both ways. Either you get a new actor who doesn't look or maybe doesn't even perform the character consistently compared to the previous actor, and you have to suspend your disbelief for that. Or you keep the same actor and have to suspend disbelief that the same actor at a single age can portray a character at different ages. Here's the thing... neither are all that uncommon. Especially in live theatre, you can have an adult actor play the child version of their own character, and people will accept it.

A movie example I like is Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. In that case, they actually use both for the scenes where Jim Carrey's and Kate Winslet's characters are portrayed as children. For introductory spots, they'll have actual kids play them, but when there's any real acting and character stuff, it'll jump to Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet playing their characters as children. Granted, it has some extra justification in that it's happening in his mind. But keep in mind that, just because it's Jim Carrey, this device isn't just used for crazy, over-the-top comedy. Some really poignant scenes occur when he's playing himself as a child.

But, yeah, basically you have a choice: performance consistency or age characteristic consistency. Toei chose to go the former route for all of their DB characters, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Funny how this thread is almost solely dedicated to Goku, even though the exact same thing applies to Gohan, Goten, Kuririn, and... TRUNKS! We have an adult male playing a little boy, but I never hear anyone going, "They should have gotten a woman to play him!"

EDIT: Also, I just thought of something else. Let me preface by again saying that I don't necessarily think either method is flat out better than the other, just different. For another live action film example, take Forrest Gump. Two actors playing Forrest, one as a kid, one as an adult. Tom Hanks learned the particular dialect the kid used and added that to his character. Their mannerisms are the same, their vacant look is the same. It's not that hard to buy it's the same character. But I never hear dub fans drawing comparisons between, say, Stephanie Nadolny and Sean Schemmel. Again, I don't think Schemmel is a bad Goku, but does anyone really view these two performances as a consistent character? Did it look like there was any time spent coaching one actor in the mannerisms, speech patterns, or vocal qualities of the other? Because, honestly, I don't see it. Aside from both having the general characteristics present in the character, Nadolny and Schemmel seem to have completely different takes on the character.

[Savage68]

The character Nozawa had defined up to that point was Goku, as a child. Plenty of other actors in the series altered their voices to fit the change in appearance that came with their character's age. Horikawa did it with Vegeta (even though his personality was the same), Kusao did it with Trunks (even though his personality was the same), and Shioya's vices were incredibly distinct between the forms of Buu he was portraying, even though there's hardly any difference in personality between them all.

You mean to tell me that Nozawa was that special? I guess she was, but then again, I've never been one to hail Toei for being the brightest bulbs in the drawer when it came to their DBZ decisions.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm not really sure what you're asking me, or what point you're trying to get across. Yeah. The other seiyuu altered their voices when playing their roles at different ages.

So did Nozawa.

Her voices, not only for Goku at different ages, but for Gohan, Goten, and her other roles, were all distinct both for the characters, and for the characters' ages. I bet if you blindfolded me or most other fans of the original version and played me a few lines of dialogue from any one of her DB characters, I'd be able to tell you which character and whether it's the adult or child version. So what are we arguing here?

[Savage68]

Her voices, not only for Goku at different ages, but for Gohan, Goten, and her other roles, were all distinct both for the characters, and for the characters' ages.

That's not the point. I know they were all acted out differently, but grown-up Goku still sounded like a kid, and grown-up Gohan still sounded like a kid. The other seiyuu actually made a clear differentiation between child and adult.

[Gaffer Tape]

Yeah, and young Vegeta in Japanese sounded like Horikawa speaking in the high range of his voice (and, incidentally, Sabat's young Vegeta sounded like his Vegeta with some funny-sounding pitch-modulation). Kusao's young Trunks sounded like Kusao's higher range with a bit of rasp added in. And Nozawa's adult Goku sounded like a lower-pitched version of her child Goku.

Again, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to get across. I'd like to understand, but I'm really not sure what you're getting at or what the difference is between this. They're all altering their voices to fit the age of the character. Adult Goku, however, does sound more child-like, because, again, this fits the character's personality, but it's still quite a bit deeper than child Goku. Adult Gohan sounds quite mature to me, by comparison.

[Savage68]

I don't think I can be any more clear than I already have been, so just forget it.

[Gaffer Tape]

Fair enough.

Sounds like he gave up. I guess that means I win...

[Amigo Ten]

His point was that other voice actors had a child and adult voice for the child and adult versions of their characters. Nozawa just has two childish voices for the child and adult versions of her character.

[Gaffer Tape]

That was what I thought, and I respectfully disagreed by pointing out that Nozawa's adult Goku voice was deeper (the number one criticism against it being "girly and high-pitched", and the general consensus seems to be that adult male=deeper voice) than her voice for kid Goku. If his argument is simply that, voice aside, she is portraying the character as too childlike, well... then criticize Schemmel as well, as he has that aspect of Goku down pat. They both come across as childlike because Goku is childlike. Criticizing the childlike aspects of either voice is like bitching at a grocery store clerk because a lime is yellow. Blame it on the character, not the actor.

And it's not like neither of them are capable of adult-like performances within the constraints of the character. Can you honestly tell me that Goku's admonishment of Gohan to get the hell away from Freeza could possibly have come from the child Goku?

And, really, Horikawa as young Vegeta is a counter-example? Is there anybody who could be even remotely convinced that voice is coming from anything other than an adult male? And that said, is that necessarily a bad thing?

[Amigo Ten]

What has the VA's gender got to do with it? He was just saying adult Goku doesn't really sound like an adult.

[Blue]

There is a very notable difference in the way Nozawa conveys Goku's age

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI14Ot7fBiw#t=07m10s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2prZV7bhTYQ#t=03m10s

How is this bad but the identical Kuririn A-Okay?

[Gaffer Tape]

RE: Amigo Ten

I almost begin to question if we're reading the same thread if you seriously question whether gender (or the secondary sexual characteristics associated with it) has been an issue used by the anti-Nozawa camp to justify their argument... But maybe I'm wrong, and, if so, I apologize.

At any rate, he and I will have to agree to disagree because we're apparently on totally different pages. Maybe totally different books. I think that Goku's voice matured enough from his childlike voice to be considered an "adult" interpretation, on the same level as Vegeta, Trunks, or Kuririn (which he seems to believe differentiate enough, which confuses me as none of them change any more signficantly than Nozawa, yet they're perfectly fine?). But "level of adultness" is a pretty irrelevant point for a character like Goku anyway. So basically, it matures enough to be believable that he went through some form of puberty, but not enough to lose the childlike essence of the performance, which is supposed to be there.

That's all I have to say on this particular point, because there's really no way to impress personal opinions and tastes, which is all this really is at the moment.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

How is this bad but the identical Kuririn A-Okay?

Especially in GT with his grey hair.

[Rocketman]

I think by the time those two showed up the producers and possibly the audience already made the connection. Goku's appearance = Nozawa. I've never been particularly bothered by it but the reason for casting Nozawa at that point was probably relatively superficial.

I thought casting characters based on appearance was wrong and bad and evil and what Funimation gets bitched at all the time for.

[TripleRach]

My problem with Fat Buu's dub voice isn't that he sounds too "obvious." I read the manga before hearing his voice in any language, and that was exactly how I pictured him sounding myself, so I actually liked it for the first episode or two. My problem is the fact that he sounds stiff and fake, and the actor apparently wasn't good enough to also do Buu's other forms. Kouzou Shioya not only sounded a lot more natural, but was adaptable enough to do every other version of the character as well.

Masako Nozawa is that adaptable, too. One of the first times I'd ever heard her voice was in the Bardock special. It was a character I was mostly unfamiliar with, not having seen the special dubbed yet, and not having any preconceptions about what he should sound like from the manga either. She completely convinced me and sold me on the character right away. I never stopped and thought, "Hey, this guy sounds like a girl." It just worked for me, and it didn't take long before I also felt the same way about her Gokuu. I think that's a credit to her acting ability.