What I'm getting at here, is that I don't particularly like Norio Wakamoto's interpretation.KaiserNeko wrote:What I'm getting at here, is that the voice can be left up to interpretation.
Well, the thing is, you're saying it doesn't fit... but give no real good reason. So of course I'm going to say, "Hey! Uh... why do you think that way?" This is a message board, what else does one do here than discuss this stuff?Amigo Ten wrote:What I'm getting at here, is that I don't particularly like Norio Wakamoto's interpretation.KaiserNeko wrote:What I'm getting at here, is that the voice can be left up to interpretation.
Do I really have to explicitly say that something is just my opinion and not some law I'm trying to impose on the world? I would think that with a subject as versatile as this that would be obvious.
However, the only examples people throw up to counter the argument is Mike Tyson and Michael Jackson. It's not much of an argument when only two examples can be brought up. In fact, it's about as flimsy as the "Nozawa is inappropriate because she makes Goku sound girly" argument.Tsukento wrote:It always irked me how even to this day, people still find Masako Nozawa being inappropriate as Goku's voice simply because he "sounds girly" and that "the voice doesn't match the body."
No, no, no. That isn't true across the board. I don't particularly care for either voice and I agree that the Japanese voice for Frieza is superior. But it is a bit of a role reversal with Japanese-version fans who prefer Nozawa over Schemmel remarking about how Frieza's dub voice and associated dialogue puts Frieza's gender and/or sexuality in doubt. It's practically the same argument, but the shoe is on the other foot.The funniest part of all this is how they disagree with this for Goku, yet are perfectly fine with hearing an older woman portraying Freeza, while throwing in all sorts of disturbing innuendo in his dialogue.
But what does it matter if an American adaptation (or viewer, for that matter) prefers that interpretation of the character. Preference is entirely subjective and what I may like another dub fan may not like while a subbed fan may hate with a passion. My preference of Schemmel over Nozawa can be no more wrong than another's preference of Ryô Horikawa over Sabat or Drummond.KaiserNeko wrote:Just because most American media presents us with scratchy, higher pitched voices for bug creatures doesn't mean that is exactly how all bug creatures should sound!
I gave my reasons. If you don't see them as "good" reasons, then that's on you. But why am I not allowed to dislike his voice? It's up for interpretation you say, but apparently my interpretation makes no sense because I've never met a 6-foot tall bug monster? Guess what. Neither has Norio Wakamoto. I guess he's not allowed an opinion on what the character should sound like now?KaiserNeko wrote:Well, the thing is, you're saying it doesn't fit... but give no real good reason. So of course I'm going to say, "Hey! Uh... why do you think that way?" This is a message board, what else does one do here than discuss this stuff?
I think people are using them as examples to prove that the voice isn't unrealistic. Tyson's voice may still be funny (and perhaps Goku's is, too) but it's an example of a real man with an uncharacteristically high pitched voice.jjgp1112 wrote:And I find that using Mike Tyson and Micheal Jackson of all people as your supporting argument is equally silly. As I said before, Mike Tyson is ridiculed and parodied by people all across the globe for the fact that his voice doesn't match his body.
"And for a moment, we all thought that we had finally found the next Muhammad Ali...until he opened his mouth"
You're taking too much offense to this. I never said you're wrong or that you're not allowed to find the voice unfit for the character. At the same time, though, you said some things that don't add up and I'm clarifying that. I also never said that Norio's is the definitive voice for Cell.Amigo Ten wrote:I gave my reasons. If you don't see them as "good" reasons, then that's on you. But why am I not allowed to dislike his voice? It's up for interpretation you say, but apparently my interpretation makes no sense because I've never met a 6-foot tall bug monster? Guess what. Neither has Norio Wakamoto. I guess he's not allowed an opinion on what the character should sound like now?KaiserNeko wrote:Well, the thing is, you're saying it doesn't fit... but give no real good reason. So of course I'm going to say, "Hey! Uh... why do you think that way?" This is a message board, what else does one do here than discuss this stuff?
The voice he ended up giving first form Cell is now the voice I would have expected given his design, and it's not a voice I like that much. What's the problem here? If we're to discuss this, then why not tell me why the JP voice does fit? All you've done is say that a character's voice is open for interpretation.
What more reasoning is there to give? A deep growly voice is not what I would expect from a giant bug monster. That expectation isn't somehow invalid just because it's not based on my experience of actual giant bug monsters. I never said "Giant bug monsters don't sound like that". All I said was "I wouldn't expect a giant bug monster to sound like that". How is that flawed?KaiserNeko wrote:I was pointing out that you said, "His voice is too deep and growly" based on his looks. The thing here is, there is no reason that Cell couldn't, or shouldn't, have a deep or growly voice. He's a giant bug creature. I'm not saying you're wrong for thinking Cell should have a different voice, but the statement itself was flawed.
Again: You're allowed to dislike the voice. But if you're going to publicly say, "I don't like it because it doesn't fit." and not give a REASON as to why it doesn't fit, when others see no problem, then don't be surprised when someone points out what they see to be an issue with your statement.
"I'm going to have to disagree with whoever (can't remember) said that Cell's first form JP voice matched his looks in the podcast. The speech pattern is right, but the voice is too deep and growly."Amigo Ten wrote:What more reasoning is there to give? A deep growly voice is not what I would expect from a giant bug monster. That expectation isn't somehow invalid just because it's not based on my experience of actual giant bug monsters. I never said "Giant bug monsters don't sound like that". All I said was "I wouldn't expect a giant bug monster to sound like that". How is that flawed?KaiserNeko wrote:I was pointing out that you said, "His voice is too deep and growly" based on his looks. The thing here is, there is no reason that Cell couldn't, or shouldn't, have a deep or growly voice. He's a giant bug creature. I'm not saying you're wrong for thinking Cell should have a different voice, but the statement itself was flawed.
Again: You're allowed to dislike the voice. But if you're going to publicly say, "I don't like it because it doesn't fit." and not give a REASON as to why it doesn't fit, when others see no problem, then don't be surprised when someone points out what they see to be an issue with your statement.
I personally wouldn't want to fight Mike Tyson or Masako Nozawa.jjgp1112 wrote:And I find that using Mike Tyson and Micheal Jackson of all people as your supporting argument is equally silly. As I said before, Mike Tyson is ridiculed and parodied by people all across the globe for the fact that his voice doesn't match his body.
"And for a moment, we all thought that we had finally found the next Muhammad Ali...until he opened his mouth"
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.
Not that you would be unjustified in saying that thoughKaiserNeko wrote:I also never said that Norio's is the definitive voice for Cell.
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