Budokai 4 (Thoughts on Theoretical Release)

[Aurek]

Mabye someone finally noticed Earth's Special Forces

[Pedro The Hutt]

For the same matter it might've been Bid for Power or The Destruction is Real. >.>

[Aurek]

I doubt it was TDIR as its far less well known. Regardless of that though the point I was/am making is that a game made in the same vein as those mods is probably, in my opinion, your best bet for as close to a "true to DBZ" game with good gameplay as possible.

In order to stay on topic, here are some things I think they should do for Budokai 4 if it gets made.

• A camera that works
  Replace things that they bizzarely removed (multi area stages)
  Proper 3d movement (towards and away from the camera)
  Ditch dragon rushes
  Ditch capsules
  Make beam struggles timing a little more forgiving
  Oh, something resembling balance would be nice too
  Give Vegeta a correct Big Bang attack
  Give Vegeta a correct Final Flash attack

They should keep the fatigue meter but make it a little more indepth. For example, calculate a characters relative fatigue based on the number of uninterrupted combo's or hits you have landed on them, number of standoffs lost, beamstrugles lost etc. The meter drains over time. Depending on how full the opponents and your own fatigue meter is the defender has different options when hit by an ultimate attack.

• Send the attack back at the attacker
  Block/deflect the attack for no damage
  Block the attack for some damage

This is the same for ALL attacks, the defender looses the top two options the more fatigued they are than you.

Finally they should ditch about half the characters they currently have and make the remaining characters more unique and balanced. There is the slightest hint of differences between characters in B3 but its little more than different animations. Though even only unique animations would make the game more fun. Oh and balance the game (did I mention that before? )

I feel these changes would turn the game from something passable that sells only because its DBZ into an actually good game.

[Xyex]

A camera that works
Replace things that they bizzarely removed (multi area stages)

I agree with these two completely. I don't know what happened to the camera between B1/2 and B3 but it likes to flip around behind people know and confuse me as to what button is what direction...

Proper 3d movement (towards and away from the camera)
Ditch dragon rushes
Ditch capsules

No, no, and no. First of all 'Proper 3D movement' is more asthetic than anything and is fairly pointless. Secondly, Dragon Rush is when of the best additions to B3. Once you get the hang of the general patterns it becomes a rather useful tool. Add to that the fact it helps balance the game giving the weaker characters more of a chance.

And third, capsules rule. They add even more varriation to them plus extend the level of stratagey. But hey, if you don't like them, either don't equip any or just use the breakthroughs which will make it like all the other DBZ games, the same moves, strengths, weaknesses, and abilites every single fight.

Make beam struggles timing a little more forgiving
Oh, something resembling balance would be nice too
Give Vegeta a correct Big Bang attack
Give Vegeta a correct Final Flash attack

Beam struggles work great as is... I don't know what you think needs fixed but it's already perfect. Balance... well, the game IS balanced. Granted, it's hard as hell to beat Omega Shenron with the likes of Hercule, Videl, or at times, anyone. But it's doable. Every game has it's hard as hell to beat character...

Ummmm, what's wrong with the BBA and Final Flash? *blink* They're correct....

They should keep the fatigue meter but make it a little more indepth. For example, calculate a characters relative fatigue based on the number of uninterrupted combo's or hits you have landed on them, number of standoffs lost, beamstrugles lost etc. The meter drains over time. Depending on how full the opponents and your own fatigue meter is the defender has different options when hit by an ultimate attack.

The fatigue system already works along those lines. If you can keep comboing them quickly their fatigue level goes up rather quickly. Losing a beam struggle pushes it up as well. Though, the different things to do for ultimates bassed on Fatigue levels would be cool.

Finally they should ditch about half the characters they currently have and make the remaining characters more unique and balanced. There is the slightest hint of differences between characters in B3 but its little more than different animations.

Ditch characters? Er, no. Add characters. And everyone is quite unique at this point. Several share similar (though not quite identicle) platforms but then again, it's basicly only those that are connected that have that, and that's to be expected. B3 is a lot different in that area than the first two games.

[Aurek]

I dont want to offend but have we been playing the same game? and have we been watching the same anime?

No, no, and no. First of all 'Proper 3D movement' is more asthetic than anything and is fairly pointless. Secondly, Dragon Rush is when of the best additions to B3. Once you get the hang of the general patterns it becomes a rather useful tool. Add to that the fact it helps balance the game giving the weaker characters more of a chance.

One of the strengths of Budokai (3 that is the others had none) is its speed. Dragon rush breaks up the flow of the game, you get a handful of generic animations that quickly loose their appeal and an almost entirely skill less guessing game. Nor does it balance anything, fight a SSJ4 character (another player, the computer does not count) with chibi Gohan or Uub and try and tell me the game is balanced.

Capsules are boring, they add no strategy at all as most of them are entirely useless and the ones that have use are overpowered. You dont seem to understand that all the characters share the same moves strengths and weaknesses regardless of the capsules you equip.

Beam struggles work great as is... I don't know what you think needs fixed but it's already perfect

The timing is too tight and they rarely happen.

Ummmm, what's wrong with the BBA and Final Flash? *blink* They're correct....

LoL, just watch the episodes where he does those attacks again.

The fatigue system seems like a half implemented feature at the moment. Its not very accurate and its also very small.

Ditch characters? Er, no. Add characters. And everyone is quite unique at this point. Several share similar (though not quite identicle) platforms but then again, it's basicly only those that are connected that have that, and that's to be expected. B3 is a lot different in that area than the first two games.

This is completly incorrect. In the first and second game there were three types of character; small, medium and large. All charachters were one of these classes and all classes shared exactly the same animations apart from the obvious like death moves. A couple of different throws were smattered around.

In Budokai 3 this situation is the same, the only difference is they have added some unique animations. That is the "hint of difference between the characters" I spoke of. I want them to actually make charactes play differently. For example, I could see Buu being a juggling character with his attacks that knock people into the air and his flurries of punches. But there is not enough and everyone remains very, very generic. I say remove characters because it would be far too hard to make each character interesting and balanced, thats the reason you dont usually find 20+ decent characters in other proper fighting games, let alone 20+ at all.

[lost in thought]

Dragon Rush is when of the best additions to B3. Once you get the hang of the general patterns it becomes a rather useful tool. Add to that the fact it helps balance the game giving the weaker characters more of a chance.

One of the strengths of Budokai (3 that is the others had none) is its speed. Dragon rush breaks up the flow of the game, you get a handful of generic animations that quickly loose their appeal and an almost entirely skill less guessing game. Nor does it balance anything, fight a SSJ4 character (another player, the computer does not count) with chibi Gohan or Uub and try and tell me the game is balanced.

My thoughts? I think its a good part of the game, and kind of gives more realism to the battles, what with how quickly your energy can drain... but it really needs to be retooled [like fusion,] to become actually useful in battle.

On top of this, it needs to be adjustable... in that it could work different ways, depending on your current health. [Lower health, weaker attack, etc.]

But then again, thats just me...

Capsules are boring, they add no strategy at all as most of them are entirely useless and the ones that have use are overpowered. You dont seem to understand that all the characters share the same moves strengths and weaknesses regardless of the capsules you equip.

I kind of agree with you, it needs to be balanced out better than it is.

Beam struggles work great as is... I don't know what you think needs fixed but it's already perfect

The timing is too tight and they rarely happen.

Agreed.

The fatigue system seems like a half implemented feature at the moment. Its not very accurate and its also very small.

Agreed. It should work hand in hand with every attack, and your health bar.

[Xyex]

Apparently we haven't been, since you don't seem to be talking about B3.

One of the strengths of Budokai (3 that is the others had none) is its speed. Dragon rush breaks up the flow of the game, you get a handful of generic animations that quickly loose their appeal and an almost entirely skill less guessing game. Nor does it balance anything, fight a SSJ4 character (another player, the computer does not count) with chibi Gohan or Uub and try and tell me the game is balanced.

Done it. It is. I'm sorry if you can't pull it off due to this supposed lack of balance but I can as the balance is there. Straight up, not so much, but that's what the capsules are for. Yakon slaughters SSJ4's, especially SSJ4's that are in Hyper Mode. Add to that a few well choiced strength boosting caps and I can get Uub or Chibi Gohan stronger than an SSJ4. The balance exists, you just have to understand the system.

Capsules are boring, they add no strategy at all as most of them are entirely useless and the ones that have use are overpowered. You dont seem to understand that all the characters share the same moves strengths and weaknesses regardless of the capsules you equip.

I refer you to my last comment for this one was well. Once you understand the capsules better you'll understand the game better. And you don't seem to understand that all the characters are based off a set of platforms, each with their own variations. Yes, there's similarity, but that exists in all fighting games. The capsules modifiy these even further. If you can't see it, well, that's not a fault of the game.

Beam struggles work great as is... I don't know what you think needs fixed but it's already perfect

The timing is too tight and they rarely happen.

This would be you, not the game. The timing is loose enough to easily access while still tight enough to be realistic. If the computer uses a beam struggle compatible death move against me, and I have one of my own, I've never been unable to engage the beam struggle when I've wanted too. This is simply your own timing being insufficent.

LoL, just watch the episodes where he does those attacks again.

The fatigue system seems like a half implemented feature at the moment. Its not very accurate and its also very small.

I've seen those episodes, the clips of the attacks, many times. Again, what the hell are you talking about? I see 0 wrong. As for the fatigue system... it's not half implemented. Lean to make use of it better, that's all I can tell you.

This is completly incorrect. In the first and second game there were three types of character; small, medium and large. All charachters were one of these classes and all classes shared exactly the same animations apart from the obvious like death moves. A couple of different throws were smattered around.

In Budokai 3 this situation is the same, the only difference is they have added some unique animations. That is the "hint of difference between the characters" I spoke of. I want them to actually make charactes play differently. For example, I could see Buu being a juggling character with his attacks that knock people into the air and his flurries of punches. But there is not enough and everyone remains very, very generic. I say remove characters because it would be far too hard to make each character interesting and balanced, thats the reason you dont usually find 20+ decent characters in other proper fighting games, let alone 20+ at all.

Ok, this settles it. You're not even playing B3. The combo platforms for B3 are vastly different than in previous games. The characters have varried attacks, juggles, cancels, etc. Even characters with the same platform base are varried thanks to death moves, transformations, and base line ki levels.

Also, you seem to think this game was designed for figthing game fans that want to be learning 20 different games just to understand each individual character. Go play other games if that's what you want, this isn't it. It's for the causal and advanced player, and DBZ fans.

And I can tell you this much right now. Based off of what you've said, I could face you as any character against any character and I'd never lose. I rather suck at the highest level play in the Budokai games, I screw up cancel combos more than I don't. Hell, I've given up on them, I'm not good enough with my timing. But I can tell by your lack of understanding of the game mechanics I wouldn't have trouble against you. This game's go tthe depth, you just have to understand how it works.

[Aurek]

Please dont attribute my thoughts on the game to lack of ability or skill. The game requires little skill at all to master. Dont get me wrong, I like Budokai 3, It has just enough depth to make it palatable and I like the pace games can have. But were it not DBZ it would not be successful, nor would I have bought it, nor whould I have looked at it twice and nor would anyone else. I dont want it to be massively complex in a way the slows the game down. I do however want it to get its basic system right. The developers unfortunatly have seen that they just have to keep it flashy, add everyones favourite characters and everybody (chumps like me included) will buy it. Then they can spend as long as they want (3 games and counting) getting the basic concepts right.

I'm not saying I cant beat a character who is SSJ4 I'm saying the SSJ4 character has a huge natural advantage. Also note I am noever referring to playing against the computer when I talk about balance issues, I'm talking about playing againt other people. The computer is terrible and only difficult when it has an large advantage. Play Piccolo against a SSJ4. Equip the SSJ4 (lets say Goku) with his breakthrough and Piccolo with his. When in their final transformaitons the SSJ4 has access to far more energy due to the fact most of his bars are the larger. His Jubei Kamehameha will do more damage than your Ultimate attacks. If he dragon rushes you without ending with a Warp Kamehameha he still does more dammage than you can with an ultimate. He takes less damage than you. The list is endless. Now yes you could close this gap with other capsules but then you are sacrificing more interesting things. You end up with a piccolo who relies on normal punch and kick "combo's" and one or two other things. While the Goku has access to ALL his moves. That is going to tire fast. Compare a SSJ4 Warp Kamehameha for what, upwards of 3000 damage, and still thousands if the defender wins the struggle with Ryuken, where it does about 300 if the defender wins. Or Yamcha's Spirit Ball which does none if he misses and any other attack that still does upwards of a thousand. Supreme Kai has two death moves and a potara fusion and nothing else. He dosent even have any unique animations. I could go on like this forever.

Yakon? I'm going to assume thats a fairly large typo.

The characters are based off three generic classes that share almost identical moves with very few differences. The capsules will not make them more interesting to play as. There are no different types of normal attacks so combo's in B3 are irrelevant as they can be so easily dodged.

The fatigue system works as it is yes, I could hardly have a problem with it. Its so simplistic thats like saying I cannot understand any other basic gameplay concept. Please stop insulting my intellegence. I'm am saying it should be slightly more complex and apparant, right now you could easily play the game without ever knowing of its existance.

Do I really have to write a detailed description of those two attacks? Can someone post some screens so I dont have to? For Final Flash basically he should be higher and the energy should not appear in his hands until they are together. Big Bang attack is the far worse though. It should not visibly charge in his hand and it should be blue. I also would have preferred that they had not added the part with the second blast on the end.

Differing baseline ki levels and death moves do not make characters unique or different in any meaningful way. Especally when all death moves are executed the same way and amount to simply different animations and effects. Even if they did half the characters in the game have the same one anyway! Everything you do in the game requires ki. So when one base, no capsule character has a baseline of 1 large bar and another has 7 that is not balance. Balance means that all players have an even field and their chances of winning or losing is based only on their own skill.

It is easy and pointless to say you would beat me in a game we can never play against each other so why bother? All I would have to do is equip a SSJ4 Gogeta and annihilate you anyway. Thats balance for you.

If you want to see a good fighting game look at Soul Calibur 2. That will show you what differing and unique characters are like, the use of full 3d movement and combo's that actually matter. Just to make things painfully clear I am not saying I want Budokai to become like Soul Calibur 2, its just an example of a game with actual depth. Hell, even in Ultimate battle 22 the characters had more differences and play styles.

[askani son]

Yakon? I'm going to assume thats a fairly large typo.

That little jem helped me in many a hard battle with my bro (who loves characters that transform)

The moves are as varied as they can be. Remember they are based on something. And I have Soul Calibur 2 and it's amazing. But IMO Budokai is not meant for fans who are looking for the best fighting game ever. It has great combat systems and awsome moves but it was never meant to be a brilliant fightinmg game.

Instead of quoting that whole...speach, Xyex I'll just say I agree.
I have to admit though, I suck completely when it comes to Dragonrush and would not be sorry to see the back of it. As for character animation, what's there not to like? Last night I unlocked cell jr (which completes my character list.) , and I love how the individual cell jr's make their own individual entance. [/quote]

[Xyex]

Yakon? I'm going to assume thats a fairly large typo.

This here only proves my point. Yakon was far from a typo. If you don't know the capsules you can't grasp the system. Come back later once you do know the system.

If you want to see a good fighting game look at Soul Calibur 2. That will show you what differing and unique characters are like, the use of full 3d movement and combo's that actually matter. Just to make things painfully clear I am not saying I want Budokai to become like Soul Calibur 2, its just an example of a game with actual depth. Hell, even in Ultimate battle 22 the characters had more differences and play styles.

SC2 is fun, but guess what? It's boring after less than an hour. I can sit and play B3 all day because it's fun. I can fight, say, Gohan against Omega Shenron, three or four times in a row, and guess what? The fight wont go the same every time because I can switch around the capsules. Seriously, your arguments fall flat since you lack full understanding of the capsules.

That little jem helped me in many a hard battle with my bro (who loves characters that transform)

Indeed. My cousin Tyler didn't even know about DBZ before we first played B1. And in it, like in B2, he loved the Super Saiya-jins. I started equiping Yakon on principle after a while. XD

It is easy and pointless to say you would beat me in a game we can never play against each other so why bother? All I would have to do is equip a SSJ4 Gogeta and annihilate you anyway. Thats balance for you.

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

First of all, you'd have to manage to fuse. And then, on top of that, you'd need to actually hit me. XD I don't really see you manaing either of those at this point.

Do I really have to write a detailed description of those two attacks? Can someone post some screens so I dont have to? For Final Flash basically he should be higher and the energy should not appear in his hands until they are together. Big Bang attack is the far worse though. It should not visibly charge in his hand and it should be blue. I also would have preferred that they had not added the part with the second blast on the end.

o_O Oro? Actaully, the first time he used the Final Flash (Namek) it was totally different than the second time. And the BBA is gold, not blue. And ontop of all of that. You're bitching about asthetics? You just killed ALL credibility you had.

[Aurek]

I think you will find it was your sentance structure that was lacking not my understanding of the game.

Saying you slaughter SSJ4's with Yakon implies that you we're using a character as it is a name. But for the love of god cop on. Shock, horror! forgive me for not being able to remimber every single one of the capsules in a game I have not played in weeks. It MUST be definitave proof I dont know how to play the game

However this also does not lend weight to your arguments. Using a capsule that allows you to beat another with extreme ease is not balance as I have already said. Regardless of wether its a Yakon, Cooler's Space Ship, Senzu Bean or SSJ4 Gogeta Potara Fusion. If you equip a capsule that gives you a huge advantage they will simply change what they use and aspects of the game will become completly useless and unused. So they fall under the "overpowered" category I mentioned earlier.

Managing to fuse is not difficult as it requires almost no energy to attempt. If you rendered the fusion useless through your capsules then I would simply never choose it, where is the point in that? Another point of bad balance there, the SSJ4 Gogeta fusion requires no inputs to complete successfully where as the Gotenks one does.

I simply cannot believe you have said that about Soul Calibur 2. It beggars belief. It is a highly deep and rewarding game to play that takes real skill to master.

Yes I am bitching about asthetics. If they made Kamehameha's green and called Kuirrin Bongo so would you, and rightly so. It is a game based on something and therefore should adhere to it. Also he did not use final flash on namek I'm sure plenty of people will back me up on that particular point. Please show me a screen of DBZ other than when he was Majin Vegita (and there are plenty of mistakes) where he does a big bang attack that is gold.

You also incorrectly seem to assume things about the way I play the game. I tend to always pick the characters that have something resembling uniqueness and those tend to be the less powerful ones. You lost your own credibility with me the instant you brought something like that up. Making assumptions about the way complete strangers play a game and saying you could beat them easily while knowing it would be impossible to ever back that up is absurd in the extreme.

But why am I so suprised? I should not have expected to be able to have a discussion on a DBZ fanboy forum about a DBZ game and expect a balanced view. Had we this discussion on a relevant gaming forum, the responses would have been very different.

Seriously, your arguments fall flat since you lack full understanding of the capsules.

Your arguments fall flat since you lack full understanding of games. Spend a few more years at it and come back to me again, hopefully then you will have a clue.

[Pedro The Hutt]

Mah, transformations don't decide everything, why, I've whooped Kid Buu in B2 with Kuririn where Son Goku fails. >.>

And Yakon is indeed a handy capsule, as it increases the ki-drain of a character with a transformation, so imagine facing of a character like, Goku, if he goes SSJ3, the Yakon will boost the natural ki-drain, so that in the end he loses ki so fast he'll soon be unable to even do a regular ki-blast. So that cancels out the strenght that you get from transformations. But then again, with a Z-sword capsule you can get Goku up to 110%, that's the same as SSJ, but without any ki-drain, yay!
So in the end, capsules can make some difference. =D Even a little defence capsule can help, as well, every percent of damage reduced adds up in the end, and can thus increase your odds of victory.

[Xyex]

I just skimmed your newest post this time, but I found some problems yet again. Yakon balances the power of the SSJ4 form by reducing it's effectiveness. That's the point. You don't grasp the system.

And if you're going to complain about the Final Flash and BBA for those reasons, go back and play B1. But don't play the what-if stages, cause, heaven for-bid if they change anything even slightly just for fun.

EDIT:

Yes I am bitching about asthetics. If they made Kamehameha's green and called Kuirrin Bongo so would you, and rightly so. It is a game based on something and therefore should adhere to it. Also he did not use final flash on namek I'm sure plenty of people will back me up on that particular point. Please show me a screen of DBZ other than when he was Majin Vegita (and there are plenty of mistakes) where he does a big bang attack that is gold.

Actually, yes, he does use the Final Flash on Namek, however the name is never said. It's that blue beam of energy he blasts Recoome with. That is the first time we see the Final Flash.

And let's see, a golden BBA... ummmm, how about when he blasts Android 19?

[Aurek]

I just skimmed your newest post this time, but I found some problems yet again. Yakon balances the power of the SSJ4 form by reducing it's effectiveness. That's the point. You don't grasp the system.

What!? I UNDERSTAND that. But you dont grasp what I am saying. So I will type it in bold so you can more easily see.

Capsules that render other abilities completly useless or that give an very large advantage to one player are unbalanced or at the least boring. As it removes variety from a game with precious little in it to begin with. I think they detract from the fun of the game and thus believe they should be removed.

If you equip a Yakon, I dont equip SSJ4 or equivalent and it is never used.

Referring to what I said earlier about removing things for no apparant reason, why not include both versions of the Big Bang attack for extra variety? On the contrary I like "what if" scenarios, I really liked the what if Fusions of Budokai 2, especally the Goku/Mr.Satan one. It was quite amusing yet one more thing they removed.

I understand that Pedro, my point is that its not fun using those kind of capsules because the base fighting system, the punches and kicks, need a little more depth and variety.

Edit:

Actually, yes, he does use the Final Flash on Namek, however the name is never said. It's that blue beam of energy he blasts Recoome with. That is the first time we see the Final Flash.

So he dosent use the name, its a different colour and he performs it differently. Sounds like a different attack to me.

Anyone have a screen of the Big Bang attack he does against Android 19?

[VegettoEX]

You're all retarded. Shut up.

Why doesn't anyone point me to these threads? I can't read every single god damn one...

[Rocketman]

I'm not saying I cant beat a character who is SSJ4 I'm saying the SSJ4 character has a huge natural advantage.

All I would have to do is equip a SSJ4 Gogeta and annihilate you anyway. Thats balance for you.

1. Duh. It's a DBZGT game. What, would you like Hercule to do the same damage as SSj4 Gogeta? If anything this game as FAR, FAR more balanced that it should be. For example, Hercule shouldn't even be able to damage anybody besides Videl.

2. HA! SSj4 Gogeta is easily one of the worst characters in the game.

- You must be SSj4 before fusing, and you don't get any other transformations to use as stepping stones up to the 6-ish ki bars you need to transform.
- If you do manage to get to SSj4, then you have to go Hyper Mode to use Fusion. The other player than then dodge you until your energy runs out and you revert to base.
- If you manage to connect with the Fusion, you get 15 seconds or so to play as SSj4 Gogeta. Other player can dodge/dash away from you, and then wail on you when the Fusion runs out, esp. since you depower to base when it does.
- To use his ultimate, you have to Hyper Mode again, cutting your Fusion time even further.

I could thrash your SSj4 Gogeta-equipped Goku or Vegeta with this setup:

Goku
- Kamehameha

or

Vegeta
- Galic Gun

[Aurek]

<sighs in exasperation>

I wouldent like to see the DBZ game you would make in that case. LoL

Yes you could, and so could I. Aern't we just brilliant?

[VegettoEX]

<sighs in exasperation>

I wouldent like to see the DBZ game you would make in that case. LoL

Yes you could, and so could I. Aern't we just brilliant?

WTF does this even mean? Please type properly.

And everyone shut up. And stuff. Seriously. Get a god damn grip.

[Fuujin]

Oh, the horror! The horror!

Well, IMO games like SC or Tekken 5 are great fighting games, but their systems just wouldn't work with a DBZ game. A DBZ game needs flashy moves, punches that send opponents flying, projectiles covering half-a-screen. And Budokai happily provides those things. It wasn't ever meant as a complex, tactical fighting game with 2-year learing curve and juggles that look more like a photosynthesis formula than a hit combination. It was meant to be fun, flashy, and simple. And it is, as long as you don't start complaining about a wrong color for a ki-blast. I mean, come on! If they reproduced the Final Flash scene exactly from the show, we would've had a 5-minutes special move, and that's not the point. I don't give a damn if he's charging the energy at the wrong time. It's faithful enough and it looks good, and that's good enough for me.

[Aurek]

I was referring to the above post where the poster described how he thought the game was balanced too much.

Then I referred to the end of his post where he said he could easily beat a SSJ4 Gogeta character.

I didnt want to increase the size of my post in a manner I thought needless by adding quotes, as I was referring to the post directly above mine. Sorry, I will always quote in future.

EDIT:

Well, IMO games like SC or Tekken 5 are great fighting games, but their systems just wouldn't work with a DBZ game. A DBZ game needs flashy moves, punches that send opponents flying, projectiles covering half-a-screen.

I agree totally, as I said in my above posts I dont want anything that slows the pace of the game, just a little more depth for increased long term appeal. In my opinion.

And it is, as long as you don't start complaining about a wrong color for a ki-blast. I mean, come on! If they reproduced the Final Flash scene exactly from the show, we would've had a 5-minutes special move, and that's not the point.

True, its just those particular attacks I like more than others. Obviously I dont want the whole scene . Its not a major thing, just a little niggle