DBZ VS KAI VS MANGA (the great filler debate)

[Nils_McCloud]

Well some people don't really have a problem with it. Besides, what you're talking about isn't necessarily filler, but more about the pacing of the battles.

I liked the filler too. The Anoyuchi (?) Budôkai was fun .

[Akira]

Kai is an enjoyable addition to my video collection of Dragonball. It will never replace my growing Dragonbox collection as the primary viewing choice, but I convinced myself to purchase Part 1 of the series for two reasons (well, three actually). The first reason was just to check it out and see if I liked it at all. The second was to have a shortened version for when I feel like watching a particular "highlight reel" of a saga for an evening or two without having to spend an entire weekend re-watching the original version of any particular saga.

The third was the instance of Blu-ray, I have a single movie release on Blu-ray for comparison sake, and the differences between the DVD and Blu-Ray versions of "Dead Zone" wasn't enough to make me re-purchase my entire movie set in another format. Kai is different enough to warrant a purchase of the Z series on a different format.

Kai is like a supplement to the Dragonbox versions. The quick and easy version just to refresh yourself on the story without the massive time investment, yet never a full scale, total replacement of the original version. There is definitely a time and place for both versions.

For example, a cousin comes to visit, and you want to show them a particular saga, but they are only visiting for a couple of days. You'd be lucky to get through half a saga in the original version, but you could easily do it with Kai and have time for other stuff too. It would hit all the key story elements to give someone a solid grasp of what happens.

It is true some filler sucks and feels like a time waste, but that other filler fleshes out the story more and makes it even more enjoyable. The latter is lost with Kai. Some battle filler is quite good, and makes the fights more exciting, yet some of it is un-needed, and makes things drag out too long.

For me, watching the Dragonbox version is for seeing it all, and fast-forwarding past the parts that I don't want to see. Kai seems to remove all filler whatsoever, and some fights and action sequences seem to lose quite a bit because of it, almost like you are skipping ahead entirely too fast.

That first part lost a lot of awesome training sequences for example. I liked watching Ten, Krillin, and the others scale Korin Tower again, mentioning that Goku had trained with Kami previously, and that he was likely getting even stronger still in the afterlife. Piccolo splitting in two and sparring with himself for training while Gohan actually spent a few episodes of his "six months in the wilderness" learning to survive made sense and fleshed him out more. Some of that was excellent filler, and added to the overall appreciation of things.

Kai will really shine for me when I can actually watch the awesome fight between Goku and Cell without two dozen cutaways to Mr. Satan, cronies and Cameraman for commentary every two seconds. That fight is animated well, and has some awesome action in it, but I never enjoyed it in the original version because the cutaway interruptions were far too many and far too frequent for my tastes.

Without a doubt, both versions will have their pros and cons, but I truly believe that that they compliment each other for any serious fan and collector. Both having a time and place for viewing options.

My video collection of Dragonball is one wrought with multiple versions and releases of DBZ in particular, be it singles, Orange Bricks, and now Dragonbox DVD sets, and Kai Blu-ray discs. More time, money and patience has had to hold strong on my part for me to get to this point.

For someone who has never owned much or any of the Anime though, this is the perfect time to start collecting. If you are a serious fan (Like most of here are) My opinion is that at the end of the day, when all releases are out of the current offerings, you'd have everything you needed with a complete set of Dragonbox DVDs and Kai Blu-rays. They aren't really a "one or the other" type of choice, but complimentary sets that go hand in hand for the die-hard among us.

With those two sets, however, you would quickly find that the Orange bricks and singles quickly become obsolete and unnecessary. Hindsight is always 20/20, but If I had it to do over again, I'd be content with Dboxes and Kai, and would never have sank a single dollar into the previous releases. But, looking back, I see it as lesson learned, and money that supported the possibility of Dboxes and Kai. So those of you who get to reap the versions we always deserved and wanted, but never would have gotten without those of us who poured money into the weaker earlier releases...you're welcome.

=) That's my thoughts on it all.

[Cipher]

I see it as two separate canons: the Manga and the Anime (including GT and Kai). I consider Kai to be under the umbrella of Anime because that's exactly what it is.

Except Kai doesn't lend itself to GT at all. GT uses several Z-only elements in its plots, such as the Tsufuru-jins, the purifying water, and an anime-styled afterlife. I don't think Kai is really meant to replace Z in the original trilogy.

[Blue]

Now that dubbed Kai is being broadcast, I've recorded some episodes and am watching. I'm about 20 minutes into Episode 1 AND THIS IS FUCKING BEAUTIFUL. It beats the everliving balls out of Z's horrible shitty shitfucking pacing of shit.

Oh Rocketman, you have such a way with words.

Well some people don't really have a problem with it. Besides, what you're talking about isn't necessarily filler, but more about the pacing of the battles.

Yeah but filler lends itself to horrible pacing too. For example "HURGLE DERF WE INTERRUPT THIS PLOT TO SHOW YOU A CRUMBLING MOUNTAIN FOR 10 MINUTES!" or "WHAT WACKY HIJINKS IS CHI CHI UP TO...OH SHE'S COOKING!? LET'S FOCUS ON THIS INSTEAD!"

Z couldn't do a decent B plot to save its life up until the Boo saga.

[Kid Buu]

Well some people don't really have a problem with it. Besides, what you're talking about isn't necessarily filler, but more about the pacing of the battles.

I liked the filler too. The Anoyuchi (?) Budôkai was fun .

Yeah I always enjoyed the filler too. I'll watch Kai when it's on TV but I think for the DVD buying I'll just get the Dragon Boxes.

[B]

In short, it's probably not that there are people who don't think the anime is allowed to by its own canon (that'd be a silly thing to believe); rather, I think there are people who don't care about the anime canon. I know I don't.

This a thousand times over. I just don't see the reason to discuss a "canon" that takes a pre-existing "canon," and essentially makes it awkwardly long and with more inconistencies. The latter is another huge; the manga already has a good handful of what-the-fux, it only makes sense, to me personally, to avoid extra.

If it's a direct discussion about something anime-only, then I can get behind using it as a base. But not for things like "is so-and-so a good character?" or "how strong is that guy?"

[dragonpiece]

With all the Dragonball material being released these days, it’s easy to find new questions, and or interesting topics for discussion.
Specifically: the future of DBZ.

Now that Dragonball Z Kai is in full swing, where will this leave the original DBZ series?

I am a bit confused by that question.

And what I mean by that is, what will the “die hard” fans respect/like more?

Well since I guess I can be considerd a die hard fan now, even though I enjoy the manga a lot and that is what I consider to only be the truth, I will always prefer Z more because some of the filler is enjoyable to me(ignoring the Garlic Jr. arc). One other reason I will always prefer Z is because the Japanese actors have gotten older in Kai and they don't sound as great as before.

Will you hold Kai in a higher regard because it follows the manga more closely?

No, I just treat Kai as fan service to all the fans who enjoyed Z to relive all over again in HD.

Or will you still hold DBZ as your top viewing choice whenever you revisit the series?

There you go, I will still hold DBZ as my top viewing choice.

[Bussani]

If it's a direct discussion about something anime-only, then I can get behind using it as a base.

Yeah, totally. If someone asked, "What do you think of this filler character," or, "Does anyone remember what happened in this part of GT?" I wouldn't just say, "IT'S FROM THE ANIME ONLY SO I DON'T CARE, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN." I'm completely able to discuss things from filler if they're relevant to the topic.