On the Oni

[omae no kaasan]

Okay. I'm a huge Takashi Miike fan. That means you either want to high-five me or condemn me to Hell. Either way I just learned something very interesting from him about Dragon Ball Z which I don't recall reading or seeing posted elsewhere. I did a search too.

One of Takashi Miike's more recent films (well actually it was shot in 2003) is Gozu. It's an entirely f*cked up and awesome yakuza horror film that you should all see if you are planning to burn for eternity the reasons for which I will not delve into here. Anyway, I was reading through the extras and it goes on to describe the Gozu (a cow-headed demon) as a bemon of Buddhist origins that feasts on the flesh of sinners. It then mentioned how it is usually associated with a horse-headed demon called the Mezu.

Somehow it didn't hit me until about 45 minuntes later when I sat down and really thought about it:

Those were the names of the oni in Hell with whom Goku competed.

Give Toei some skin for that one, not bad eh? Anyone have any info as to whether or not they pop up in Hsi Yu Chi?

[kenisu3000]

Oooooh, burn for eternity, huh? You said you wouldn't go into that, but I'm reeeeeeally curious as to exactly WHY one would go to hell for watching a horror film. Is it some sort of flick that you "experience" rather than watch, kinda like a virtual Ouija board or something?

[Ash]

Anyone have any info as to whether or not they pop up in Hsi Yu Chi?

Can't remember whether they actually appear in JttW, but the duo of horse-headed and the ox-headed demons are the messengers of [one of the?] Judge of Death. They are common Chinese mythologic figures.

I just can't remember whether these two went to fetch Sun Wukong when he was supposed to die, or whether it were two other messengers.

Edit: come to think about it, they probably were different messengers in JttW, because those messengers were err... killed by Wukong ^_~

[VegettoEX]

Edit: come to think about it, they probably were different messengers in JttW, because those messengers were err... killed by Wukong ^_~

"Look out! Here I come! Got this cool-ass extending pole! Fuck Heaven! Whee-heeee, let's kill all the random heavenly people I can! Well, first you can tell me your name, but I don't really care... so... *WHAP*... WHO'S NEXT?!?"

Almost done with the first (of four) books . I don't recall any actual Gozu/Mezu-specific figures, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Sun_Wukong]

I've had the books for over a year and havent managed to finish them. The style of writting is just so difficult. I read the first chapter and was like WTF?? Literally.

[VegettoEX]

I've had the books for over a year and havent managed to finish them. The style of writting is just so difficult. I read the first chapter and was like WTF?? Literally.

It took me a couple years to get past the first chapter . I always just got bored or distracted.

Now-a-days, since I read for an hour every day on my lunch break at work, I mostly forced myself into it. Once you get past the initial strange writing style, it's reaaaaaaally awesome. In fact, sometimes it gets downright childish in its writing style .

[lost in thought]

Since I am entirely oblivious to the subject matter of this conversation, I can't contribute anything to this topic... however I would like to. So I'd like to ask a few questions: 1.) The books title, 2.) The books author, 3.) Availability, 4.) If it's purchasable on Amazon.

Yeah, please forgive my lack of knowledge, the above is to rectify this.

[Ash]

Journey to the West has several translations, I have the hardback Jenner translation [3 volumes], but there's a better translation from what I've heard. I think it's available on Amazon, just search for Journey to the West.

I've had the books for over a year and havent managed to finish them. The style of writting is just so difficult. I read the first chapter and was like WTF?? Literally.

Guess you have to get in to the writing, but because I always read stuff that are written rather 'difficult', I had no real problem with it. But then again, I don't know that many people that read Arsène Lupin, Creation of the Gods ["Feng Shen Yan Yi" AKA "Houshin Engi" in Japanse] and Outlaws of the Marsh [also known as "Suikoden" in Japanese] ^^;

In fact, sometimes it gets downright childish in its writing style

Quite understandable, because the book is simply a recording of the stories people like bards passed on, on markets and that kind of places, like how the Odyssea and Illiad were written down. There are many poetic influences in JttW, but also lot's of straightforward action being described rather...err... vulgar

[VegettoEX]

Quite understandable, because the book is simply a recording of the stories people like bards passed on, on markets and that kind of places, like how the Odyssea and Illiad were written down. There are many poetic influences in JttW, but also lot's of straightforward action being described rather...err... vulgar

Hehe, yeah. I like how it goes from "And we have a tribute poem with regards to this..." right into Sun Wu'kung screaming foul words at the gods .

The version I've been reading is Anthony C. Yu's translation. They're all available on Amazon for decent prices. Paperback versions. Highly recommended!

Book 1 (of 4) - $22.00

Book 2 (of 4) - $19.00

Book 3 (of 4) - $19.00

Book 4 (of 4) - $19.00

[lost in thought]

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Thank you both for helping me out here, it's really nice to get some more recommended reading... I haven't read anything meaningful, since I finished reading the Hobbit... and the few things I have I didn't really care for.

Edit: By the way, have any more recommended reading I should look into?

[*PINHEAD*]

If you're anything like me, you'd get bored after the first page. I bought the first volume and "finished" it in a week or so (that is, skimming through the book paying attention to major plot points). But about three years ago, I checked out another version, Monkey, from my library. It's abridged and incomplete (some stories and poems aren't included), but if you're into reading it just for the story, I'd recomment checking that one out. But if you want the best and complete translation, get the four-volume Journey to the West (translated) by Anthony Yu. I got mine from a common book store, so I guess it's not really rare.

[Jerseymilk]

Oooooh, burn for eternity, huh? You said you wouldn't go into that, but I'm reeeeeeally curious as to exactly WHY one would go to hell for watching a horror film. Is it some sort of flick that you "experience" rather than watch, kinda like a virtual Ouija board or something?

Because Takashi Miike is considered an over the top with the blood and violence, crazy man! Although, his movies tend to be quite grotesque, I actually don't get too bothered by them. I guess I've just watched too much crazy Asian horror. I laughed at Audition.

[kenisu3000]

Oooooh, burn for eternity, huh? You said you wouldn't go into that, but I'm reeeeeeally curious as to exactly WHY one would go to hell for watching a horror film. Is it some sort of flick that you "experience" rather than watch, kinda like a virtual Ouija board or something?

Because Takashi Miike is considered an over the top with the blood and violence, crazy man! Although, his movies tend to be quite grotesque, I actually don't get too bothered by them. I guess I've just watched too much crazy Asian horror. I laughed at Audition.

Go to hell, just for watching a violent show? I think I'd worry more about going to hell for watching naughty material (though most people might not agree with me, if you think about it, the nasty little jokes in the original DragonBall are actually quite appallingly bad).

[omae no kaasan]

I think I'd worry more about going to hell for watching naughty material

I don't recall limiting it to voilence. Let's see what I can think of off the top of my head:

A jyoshikousei hermaphrodite (sp) who shoots poison darts at bone breaking speed from her down there.

An ancient demon woman who pulls a sword from down there and uses it in battle.

A woman being cut to pieces half naked.

A full-grown-man being born.

Nudity of all kinds including the skin of a yakuza compressed in a car-crusher.

A brother sucking on his older sister nipples....and they're like 60.

A naked woman drowned in a pile of her own filfth.

and the list goes on.

[The S]

Eh. It does not sound as visually disturbing as some anime I've seen.

Guess you have to get in to the writing, but because I always read stuff that are written rather 'difficult', I had no real problem with it. But then again, I don't know that many people that read Arsène Lupin, Creation of the Gods ["Feng Shen Yan Yi" AKA "Houshin Engi" in Japanse] and Outlaws of the Marsh [also known as "Suikoden" in Japanese] ^^;

Ba-dum, badum badum, badum...

LUPIN THE FIRST!!!


...I've read Paradise Lost just for fun, so I wonder how I'd fare reading Saiyuki...

[omae no kaasan]

Wait, you're attempting to compare live action and animation

Either way, might I add for purposes of keeping the board clean I've also kept out many of the more....'creative' scenes. In instances like this it's best to see before you speak.

Of interest is that a great deal of his work is based on manga ie. Ichi, Fudoh, Kintaro etc.

[The S]

Wait, you're attempting to compare live action and animation

Aye, I guess you're right. I stand corrected.

[Wahwahwah]

I've read the first book of The Journey to the West, the Translation by Anthony C. Yu. It's really fun!!! My favorite part was when Sha Wu-Ching says to Pa-chieh with a laugh, "Second Brother does have all the luck! For you have attracted these four bodhisattvas here to become your wives!"
To which Pa-chieh says, "Brother, let's not ever mention that again!..." Then he continues on about how he'll never go after pretty girls again. It was REALLY funny!!!

I actually was really bored in the first, only because I was wanting it to get to the actual journey to the west and it kept on talking about Sun Wu-k'ung. Then it promptly went into talking about how the Bodhisattva Kuan-yin recruited all of the T'ang monk's travelling companions, and finally describing the T'ang monk's origin. THEN, it finally got into the real Journey to the West!!!

Anyways, but it was really fun, and except that I found all the poetry in it really irritating, as it slowed the story up quite a bit, I still finished it in about 2 weeks or less.

I didn't read the introduction much, but I did read all the foot-notes along with the story, and it was really interesting. All-in-all, there's about 428 pages of the actual story, not including the intro. or the foot-notes in the back.

The description of Sun Wu-K'ung's origins also explain why Goku's so hard-headed!!! Thick-headed, thick-skulled, etc., etc....

[lost in thought]

My order of the four books will arrive about the fourth, according to UPS. I am giddy with anticipation!

[Ash]

Does someone own both the Jenner translation as the Yu?

I have the Jenner, but I once heard the Yu translation is better, with more notes etc. The Jenner translation is OK, but has some typos and very few footnotes for such a book.

So does someone know whether the Yu translation is really different compared with the Jenner translation and whether it justifies to buy a second translation of JttW?