DBZ: English VS Japanese

[linkdude20002001]

As far as this community goes, from everything I've seen in the past few months, the Japanese and dub fans seem to respond about equally to criticism of their favored version. Most of the time, people have been quite fair, with a few explosions of incredulous self-righteousness on both sides.

But I really detest the mantra of "It's a different show. Don't get upset, but you like a different show." That may be applicable for the "The Japanese version is mad gay!" crowd on Youtube, but here? It's horribly condescending and a total hyperbole. No matter the intent, it's still the closest thing to saying, "You're not a real fan. You aren't sharing in the same things that we enjoy."

I guarantee you that's not true. If they're here, I'm betting even the most die-hard dub fans enjoy the series for the same reason as everyone else. It's fun, it's about kung-fu aliens, and the plots are interesting. They simply happen to prefer it with a slightly (it really is slight, in the grand scheme of things) different script, and techno music. And because the fanbase loves to be bitchy, those differences are brought to the forefront again and again, rather than the vastly more numerous common traits that both dub fans and original fans enjoy. There shouldn't even be an issue of minorities and majorities. We're all basically enjoying the same product, provided we're educated about what exactly the differences between both versions are.

But I wasn't saying it in a condescending way... If I were being condescending, I would've said it a lot more rudely. Thing is, I'm just saying that they're different fans; fans of a different version of Dragon Ball. It isn't condescending to say that a fan isn't a fan of Toriyama's version of Dragon Ball if they themselves say that they don't like it. For example, in Questrider's first post, he said he doesn't like the original, and that FUNimation's version is better. He's a fan of FUNimation's version of Dragon Ball, so how is it condescending to say that he's a fan of FUNimation's version of Dragon Ball?

[jjgp1112]

As far as this community goes, from everything I've seen in the past few months, the Japanese and dub fans seem to respond about equally to criticism of their favored version. Most of the time, people have been quite fair, with a few explosions of incredulous self-righteousness on both sides.

But I really detest the mantra of "It's a different show. Don't get upset, but you like a different show." That may be applicable for the "The Japanese version is mad gay!" crowd on Youtube, but here? It's horribly condescending and a total hyperbole. No matter the intent, it's still the closest thing to saying, "You're not a real fan. You aren't sharing in the same things that we enjoy."

I guarantee you that's not true. If they're here, I'm betting even the most die-hard dub fans enjoy the series for the same reason as everyone else. It's fun, it's about kung-fu aliens, and the plots are interesting. They simply happen to prefer it with a slightly (it really is slight, in the grand scheme of things) different script, and techno music. And because the fanbase loves to be bitchy, those differences are brought to the forefront again and again, rather than the vastly more numerous common traits that both dub fans and original fans enjoy. There shouldn't even be an issue of minorities and majorities. We're all basically enjoying the same product, provided we're educated about what exactly the differences between both versions are.

But I wasn't saying it in a condescending way... If I were being condescending, I would've said it a lot more rudely. Thing is, I'm just saying that they're different fans; fans of a different version of Dragon Ball. It isn't condescending to say that a fan isn't a fan of Toriyama's version of Dragon Ball if they themselves say that they don't like it. For example, in Questrider's first post, he said he doesn't like the original, and that FUNimation's version is better. He's a fan of FUNimation's version of Dragon Ball, so how is it condescending to say that he's a fan of FUNimation's version of Dragon Ball?

I think the answer to that is far too complicated for people on the other side of the block to understand. Hell, even I couldn't exactly explain it in words.

[Questrider]

@VegettoEX-
I think this topic can be closed on yours and Cipher's posts. (Do topics get closed around here?)
I got the answers I was looking for and was introduced to some new ideas as well.

That's really your call though. Obviously. I won't really be following up on any additional posts. Gotta move on, right? Find something NEW to talk about.

@All-
I honestly liked all the points you guys all made in defending the Japanese version.
A lot of that is really going to take some time to digest as I'll be re-reading, don't doubt. And many thanks.

@Cipher- I like FUNi's version better, true- but I don't dislike the original, lol. There's things I don't LIKE about it sure...but I think I talked about that plenty!

I'll leave with this: "Cha-La" IS the song.
I ALWAYS listen to this before switching to English.

[Cipher]

This is what I talk about when I expand upon the "not the same show" idea. Sure, the "show" is exactly the same... but the feelings it evokes can be drastically different from one to the other. It is a different experience. It is. It just is. There's no two ways about it. When we both come back to talk about it, he's going to bring an entirely different discussion to the table than I am.

I knew that post would come out a little "happy tree-house," but oh well.

The thing is, I completely understand that the two versions can be tonally different. Little things like that, script changes, added dialogue, a different soundtrack, are perfectly capable of creating different tones. But different shows? I don't buy that, and I don't buy that as someone who has sat down and enjoyed hundreds of episodes in each format.

Thousands of kids reared on the Saban and early Funimation dubs sat through the first three dubbed movies, with the accurate scripts and original soundtracks. If there was some vast outcry of "Woah, this is so different!" then I must have missed it. I know my personal reaction was, "Woah, this is slightly better." That's the same reaction I have going back through the Japanese version now. It's not revelatory. Just slightly better, slightly more tolerable.

But the main things I enjoyed about the show, the things that drew me to it years ago on Toonami, are exactly the same between the different versions. They feel familiar even when I watch them with Japanese voices and a Kikuchi score for the first time. The Japanese version makes me nostalgic for the dub, and I can't see that happening if the versions are as completely separate as fans make them out to be.

I guess what seals it for me is that I only see the "It's two totally different shows" idea brought up by those who staunchly prefer one version over the other, or have given the other very little chance. That's fine; I'm not saying everyone has to watch a dub or the original version if they don't want to. Hell, I'm not even saying Funimation's version should exist in the first place. But their differences have become vastly overblown, and the Dragon Ball fanbase seems to love to separate the different productions of the show like nothing else I've seen before.

Seems to me, and this is totally up for debate, that fans like to highlight the "different shows" idea so much not because of any large implicit differences (they're minor tonal changes, IMO), but because there's a desire to separate different types of fans from one another. Reasonable fans don't want to be associated with the meatheads on Youtube; saying they're fans of a completely different version is a way to separate themselves from that. By that same token, the meatheads on Youtube don't want to associate with what they conceive as a whimpy otaku fanbase of the original version; ergo, the original version is mad gay and Funimation's is the shit. And then you get into weird stuff like so-and-so having to play the victim, or the minority, or fans who are informed on various levels, etc, etc. But when you sit down and give each a real watch, they're just not that overwhelmingly different.

EDIT - I think this is a fairly interesting discussion if it stays as level-headed as it is right now, but I suppose it could be closed either way. Might be for the better, honestly.

[jjgp1112]

Back when I first got into the show, I watched fansubs way more than the dub. The japanese version intrigued me because it was different. When I watched it, I didn't think, "Wow, this is completely different!" I just thought it had a different atmosphere since the music and voices were obviously different, but it still felt like the same show to me. Same story, same characters, same everything. Just a different style. Sure, my enjoyment may have been altered, but even people's enjoyment of Japanese scenes varies from person to person.

[Gaffer Tape]

That's an interesting point you make Cipher, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with your logic. You say that if watching the Japanese version makes you nostalgic for the dub you saw as a kid, then they can't be two different things. I honestly feel the same thing. When I watched the first two DBoxes, even though I was watching exclusively in Japanese (not that it would matter if I switched to the dub since it's entirely different dub than the one I grew up with), I felt nostalgia.

Well, last summer I started watching Kyouryuu Sentai Zyuranger. I think nearly all of us can agree that Zyuranger becoming Mighty Morphin Power Rangers was such a vast... metamorphosis (ha, see what I did there?) that they really can't be considered the same show. But in watching Zyuranger, I did become nostalgic for Power Rangers. If I'm reading a Batman comic book, I might get nostalgic for a certain Batman movie. But that also doesn't mean I'd make the argument that they're the same thing. They have similar roots, but the differences can range the gamut from dialogue and tonal changes to some visual sharing but with a totally different plot to a shared mythology but completely different execution, characters, actors, and everything else.

I honestly think nostalgia works how we want it to work. It really doesn't take much to start up the old nostalgia goggles. In real life, just encountering a certain, faint smell can suddenly evoke memories of some by-gone day or activity, even though my current location may have nothing to do with it. So I don't necessarily think that citing the appearance of nostalgia is a strong argument for saying that they're still the same thing.

[jjgp1112]

That's an interesting point you make Cipher, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with your logic. You say that if watching the Japanese version makes you nostalgic for the dub you saw as a kid, then they can't be two different things. I honestly feel the same thing. When I watched the first two DBoxes, even though I was watching exclusively in Japanese (not that it would matter if I switched to the dub since it's entirely different dub than the one I grew up with), I felt nostalgia.

When I watch the Buu saga, even though I dislike the music, I occasionally switch over to the Japanese version because it gives me nostalgia for the day when I impatiently watched the Buu saga fansubs while waiting for Funi to release them on DVD. For a long time, the Japanese version of certain episodes like Gotenks fighting Super Buu or Vegetto fighting Buu was the versions of those episodes for me. Whenever I see something like Gotenks doing his ridiculous posturing, only to find Buu laying on the floor with his feet in the air while reading a magazine and drinking soda, it isn't nearly as amusing to me in the English version as it is in Japanese because the Japanese version is how I saw it first and I have distinct memories of how funny that scene was when I first saw it.

[Cipher]

I honestly think nostalgia works how we want it to work. It really doesn't take much to start up the old nostalgia goggles. In real life, just encountering a certain, faint smell can suddenly evoke memories of some by-gone day or activity, even though my current location may have nothing to do with it. So I don't necessarily think that citing the appearance of nostalgia is a strong argument for saying that they're still the same thing.

That was actually one of the weaker points I considered bringing up, because I know it's a wholly personal thing.

I do think it's inarguable that the differences between Funimation's dub and the original Dragon Ball aren't nearly as egregious as those between Zyuranger and Power Rangers, or the Dark Knight and a 1950s' Batman comic though. Yet people try to act like they are, or are at least close, and they do it for reasons outside the actual material itself. That's more what I was getting at.

[VegettoEX]

I knew that post would come out a little "happy tree-house," but oh well.

Don't misunderstand -- I liked the attitude there .

Seems to me, and this is totally up for debate, that fans like to highlight the "different shows" idea so much not because of any large implicit differences (they're minor tonal changes, IMO), but because there's a desire to separate different types of fans from one another. Reasonable fans don't want to be associated with the meatheads on Youtube; saying they're fans of a completely different version is a way to separate themselves from that. By that same token, the meatheads on Youtube don't want to associate with what they conceive as a whimpy otaku fanbase of the original version; ergo, the original version is mad gay and Funimation's is the shit. And then you get into weird stuff like so-and-so having to play the victim, or the minority, or fans who are informed on various levels, etc, etc. But when you sit down and give each a real watch, they're just not that overwhelmingly different.

I "like" to separate the two because I feel I have to, sometimes.

When we receive the obligatory e-mail/comment/post/whatever asking why it is we're not talking about FUNimation's English dub, it seems as if the person has already separated the two in their head... so I'm forced to do the same in crafting any kind of response what-so-ever.

And yes, I do honestly believe the two are different enough (on all sorts of levels) that it's worth explaining and showcasing those differences... and then in my case, getting back to talking about "my version" (the original Japanese version) as quickly as I possibly can!

I do agree that we simply like to compartmentalize ourselves and our likes. It's just something we do as human beings.

I also really like Gaffer Tape's analysis on nostalgia right up above. I guess I'd also toss in a question -- if watching DBZ in Japanese makes you "nostalgic" for FUNimation's dub, haven't you just proven to yourself that they're "different enough" that seeing one brings up separate feelings for a separate version? If they were truly the same, you wouldn't have longing feelings to pop in that different version? I suppose based on that example alone you could really explain it any way you want and call it "right", though...

[Gaffer Tape]

I do agree with you there, Cipher, in that the English dub isn't nearly as far-removed as my other examples. I'm not entirely sure if I agree whether or not it can be considered the same entity (maybe I'll get into my personal feelings on why that is later), but that was the reason I brought up those farther-removed examples: to show that even something as far-removed as that can still ellicit nostalgia.

[jjgp1112]

I honestly think nostalgia works how we want it to work. It really doesn't take much to start up the old nostalgia goggles. In real life, just encountering a certain, faint smell can suddenly evoke memories of some by-gone day or activity, even though my current location may have nothing to do with it. So I don't necessarily think that citing the appearance of nostalgia is a strong argument for saying that they're still the same thing.

That was actually one of the weaker points I considered bringing up, because I know it's a wholly personal thing.

I do think it's inarguable that the differences between Funimation's dub and the original Dragon Ball aren't nearly as egregious as those between Zyuranger and Power Rangers, or the Dark Knight and a 1950s' Batman comic though. Yet people try to act like they are, or are at least close, and they do it for reasons outside the actual material itself. That's more what I was getting at.

Yeah, that's my view on the whole thing. It seems like people are making a mountain out of a mole-hill in the case of Dragon Ball Z. I consider a terrible dub to be something like Yu-Gi-Oh, or Duel Masters, or anything else that 4Kids gets its hands on. I would say that Funi's DBZ dub is mediocre. It's too inconsistent to be considered faithful, but it's not a completely different show. When I think of an awful hackjob, I think of what 4Kids did to Yu-Gi-Oh. They would often times chop up and rearranged certain scenes just so they can alter the story, changed entire important plot points far more frequently than Funi did, (the only major change that Funi ever created was making Dr. Gero the leader of the Red Ribbon Army if you only count the in-house dub, and even that is an easy thing to assume if you've never seen the original Dragon ball) such as changing the entire reason for the Battle City arc (Marik is angry at the Pharoah betraying his family and wants to kill Yugi, the Pharoah wants to find out more about his past --> Marik wants to take over the world and it's the Pharoah's destiny to destroy this "great evil) and they completely changed Kaiba's character post-duelist Kingdom. They made him into the same arrogant asshole he had been during the Death-T storyline whereas in the original, he respected Yugi and tried to help him with the tough love approach. While Vegeta's anger was certainly amplified in some scenes of the dub, he was still the same character, and it was only in scenes where he was supposed to be angry in the first place.

[penguintruth]

I watched every episode of the dub back when it aired on Cartoon Network, even the re-dub, even after I knew better, knew how different the Japanese and English version could be. It's only after getting into other anime that I realized that I couldn't watch the English version any longer, because I wasn't going to allow any special circumstances out of nostalgia, and I already knew I preferred the Japanese version, so there was no more reason to pursue the dub. Just like when I got the Ronin Warriors boxset, I immediately started watching the Yoroiden Samurai Troopers sides of the discs. I still get the same nostalgic feel of the basic story, but in a way that is more pleasing, and in the case of RW, that had a much more accurate and faithful dub than DBZ ever did.

I'm an anime fan, not a DBZ fan. DBZ happens to be one of the shows I count as significant in the formative years of my anime fandom, so I regard it with a sense of nostalgia, but I don't watch it for that, nor do I think I could ever get any positive feeling by rewatching the English dub of DBZ, because my tastes have evolved. I watch it because I am able to extract the real appreciation I had of the show itself from the version I used to watch out of the Japanese version as well as its own positive qualities.

Even I thought I was exaggerating a little when I used to say the Japanese and English versions are different, but when I started getting the Dragon Boxes, I realized just how right I was. I have a much different feeling watching it in Japanese than I do in English, and it has little to do with the languages themselves, but rather the attitude towards the material.

[Gaffer Tape]

I also really like Gaffer Tape's analysis on nostalgia right up above. I guess I'd also toss in a question -- if watching DBZ in Japanese makes you "nostalgic" for FUNimation's dub, haven't you just proven to yourself that they're "different enough" that seeing one brings up separate feelings for a separate version? If they were truly the same, you wouldn't have longing feelings to pop in that different version? I suppose based on that example alone you could really explain it any way you want and call it "right", though...

Actually, I'm not sure if I explained myself exactly right. Or if I did, your post reminded me of a different aspect. When I say I felt nostalgia for the Ocean Dub while I watched the Japanese version, that didn't mean I was thinking, "Gee, I wish I was watching my old tapes instead of this." My nostalgia felt satisfied, even though it was so incredibly different. It was like I was watching those again. So maybe that deflates my own argument, and maybe I shouldn't have said anything, but I like to be honest, even if it doesn't necessarily show me in a good light. But, like I argued before, I don't think it takes much for nostalgia to grab onto.

[Cipher]

When we receive the obligatory e-mail/comment/post/whatever asking why it is we're not talking about FUNimation's English dub, it seems as if the person has already separated the two in their head... so I'm forced to do the same in crafting any kind of response what-so-ever.

And yes, I do honestly believe the two are different enough (on all sorts of levels) that it's worth explaining and showcasing those differences... and then in my case, getting back to talking about "my version" (the original Japanese version) as quickly as I possibly can!

That's fair because you're asked, and some of the differences need to be explained for the point of clarification. It's just that the fanbase as a whole likes to inflate and bring up the differences without provocation, which I find ridiculous. Somewhere in there, the rift has become vastly overblown. And as different or not different as the versions may be (I guess it really is a matter of perspective on how pure any adaptation should be), I think fanbase attitude has spilled over and affected outlooks on the two productions. In an ideal situation, the two productions would be the things affecting the fanbase's outlook. If that makes sense.

Basically, how ever big you think the differences initially are, the different groups of fans have aggravated and expanded them.

I also really like Gaffer Tape's analysis on nostalgia right up above. I guess I'd also toss in a question -- if watching DBZ in Japanese makes you "nostalgic" for FUNimation's dub, haven't you just proven to yourself that they're "different enough" that seeing one brings up separate feelings for a separate version? If they were truly the same, you wouldn't have longing feelings to pop in that different version? I suppose based on that example alone you could really explain it any way you want and call it "right", though...

I should have explained this better.

It's not nostalgia for the English version in particular, but nostalgia for the scene I'm watching, even if I've never seen it Japanese before. So when I popped in Dragon Box 3 for the first time and watched Trunks fighting Freeza in Japanese, I didn't think "Oh man, I need to watch the Toonami version of this right away." I thought, "Oh man, I remember this scene being awesome. Good to see it again."

Not "see it for the first time." See it "again." Watching it in Japanese doesn't feel anywhere close to watching an entirely new scene or show.

EDIT - Which is exactly what Gaffer Tape said.

I'm an anime fan, not a DBZ fan.

Hm. I'm a Dragon Ball fan, but haven't really been an "anime fan" for four or five years. (As in, I'll enjoy an anime if it appeals to me, but I no longer search shows out just because they were produced in Japan.) I really, really doubt that affects our viewpoints that much, but maybe it warrants a look?

It's only after getting into other anime that I realized that I couldn't watch the English version any longer, because I wasn't going to allow any special circumstances out of nostalgia

And see, to me, this sounds like you're letting a personal code influence your assessment of the two versions. Even if you've seen both, it sounds like you're staunchly sticking to one and retroactively looking for a way to separate the two. I'm not trying to be accusatory, but that's the impression I get.

[jjgp1112]

Also, one thing I'd like to mention was how I spent a lot of my time getting the story in the first place. From about 2002-2005, the manga had become almost my exclusive way of obtaining Dragon Ball. Every month, I would buy the latest Shonen Jump issue to catch up on the Android saga episodes that I had only seen once on Cartoon Network back in 2001. I would spend hours reading the manga chapters to the point where the manga was THE version of the Android saga for me. Yet, when I watched the Android saga dub when I bought the Season sets in 2008, I didn't get a different feeling. When I was watching, I would recall stuff from when I was reading the manga - the anime made me nostalgic for the days when I would read the Shonen Jump issues because I was too cheap and lazy to buy the singles.

As Cipher said, I don't get the feeling of, "Man, I have to dig up my Shonen Jumps and read the manga again," I just got the feeling of, "Man, it's so great to see this again."

[Metalwario64]

and hate that Vegeta sounds just like Piccolo for a lot of the scenes.

That was only really prominent during the Season Three "re-dub" and some recent video games. His voice is noticeably different from Piccolo's in Kai's dub, and it's not nearly as deep as it was at that point. It's probably pitch-wise closer to his end of Z or "Ultimate Uncut" performance.

[jjgp1112]

and hate that Vegeta sounds just like Piccolo for a lot of the scenes.

That was only for the Season Three "re-dub" and some recent video games. His voice is different from Piccolo's in Kai's dub, and it's not nearly as deep as it was at that point. It's probably pitch-wise closer to his end of Z or "Ultimate Uncut" performance.

Yeah, definitely. However, after watching Season 3 for the first time in a while on the Dragon Box, I can actually say that Sabat's Piccolo voice back then wasn't that bad. it's still bad when he's screaming, but when he's just talking, it's at least okay.

And you know what's weird? For Sabat's Vegeta, I never noticed any change in his voice back when I was first watching all of the sags on Toonami (except for when it would switch over to the Ocean cast) until it was pointed out to me, and now the change in his voice over the time is extremely clear. I just always associated Vegeta with the "angry slightly-British voice" so heavily that i didn't notice any change in the pitch.

[linkdude20002001]

Yeah, that's my view on the whole thing. It seems like people are making a mountain out of a mole-hill in the case of Dragon Ball Z. I consider a terrible dub to be something like Yu-Gi-Oh, or Duel Masters, or anything else that 4Kids gets its hands on. I would say that Funi's DBZ dub is mediocre. It's too inconsistent to be considered faithful, but it's not a completely different show. When I think of an awful hackjob, I think of what 4Kids did to Yu-Gi-Oh. They would often times chop up and rearranged certain scenes just so they can alter the story, changed entire important plot points far more frequently than Funi did, (the only major change that Funi ever created was making Dr. Gero the leader of the Red Ribbon Army if you only count the in-house dub, and even that is an easy thing to assume if you've never seen the original Dragon ball) such as changing the entire reason for the Battle City arc (Marik is angry at the Pharoah betraying his family and wants to kill Yugi, the Pharoah wants to find out more about his past --> Marik wants to take over the world and it's the Pharoah's destiny to destroy this "great evil) and they completely changed Kaiba's character post-duelist Kingdom. They made him into the same arrogant asshole he had been during the Death-T storyline whereas in the original, he respected Yugi and tried to help him with the tough love approach. While Vegeta's anger was certainly amplified in some scenes of the dub, he was still the same character, and it was only in scenes where he was supposed to be angry in the first place.

You're just choosing to ignore the changed plot point because you want to pretend they didn't change anything about the story. And it isn't just the story, it's also the characters themselves that they changed. Gokuh is supposed to be a a naive country bumpkin, Chichi, the Ox Demon-King, and Jajirove are supposed to talk even more hick-like, and Gohan is supposed to be polite and speak very maturely for his age. They just ignored all that in their dub. It's just like what 4Kids does to its characters, only backwards.

As for the script? The script is complete BS. How can you ignore that they made up the script based off of a horrible, incomprehensible translation provided by Toei? You can "It's not as bad a dub as such-and-such" when talking about any dub, so you using it for Dragon Ball is just ridiculous. You know, 4Kids' dub of One Piece is not as bad as Kyōryū Sentai Zyuranger's dub.

That was only really prominent during the Season Three "re-dub" and some recent video games. His voice is noticeably different from Piccolo's in Kai's dub, and it's not nearly as deep as it was at that point. It's probably pitch-wise closer to his end of Z or "Ultimate Uncut" performance.

In Kai, I heard Vegeta laughing and I though it was Piccolo, so it's not entirely better. It really had me concerned, because it was at a very bad time for Piccolo to be laughing.

[penguintruth]

And see, to me, this sounds like you're letting a personal code influence your assessment of the two versions. Even if you've seen both, it sounds like you're staunchly sticking to one and retroactively looking for a way to separate the two. I'm not trying to be accusatory, but that's the impression I get.

Well, it's not strictly that. You see, after getting into other anime, I also watched a lot of anime dubs, and saw how much more faithful they were to their source material, the Japanese versions, and compared to those, even some of the bad ones, DBZ's was utter garbage. I already preferred the Japanese version, but I came to actively hate the English version because not only did it not do the material justice, I felt like it actively insulted the viewer. To me, the dub says, "You're an idiot, you need things simplified." And to me, being a fan of that is like agreeing with them.

[jjgp1112]

You're just choosing to ignore the changed plot point because you want to pretend they didn't change anything about the story. And it isn't just the story, it's also the characters themselves that they changed. Gokuh is supposed to be a a naive country bumpkin, Chichi, the Ox Demon-King, and Jajirove are supposed to talk even more hick-like, and Gohan is supposed to be polite and speak very maturely for his age. They just ignored all that in their dub. It's just like what 4Kids does to its characters, only backwards.

As for the script? The script is complete BS. How can you ignore that they made up the script based off of a horrible, incomprehensible translation provided by Toei? You can "It's not as bad a dub as such-and-such" when talking about any dub, so you using it for Dragon Ball is just ridiculous. You know, 4Kids' dub of One Piece is not as bad as Kyōryū Sentai Zyuranger's dub.

First of all, take a chill pill. Second of all, *deep breath* how bad is the dub really? Did it rearrange the order of scenes just so it could change the plot? Did it change the entire reason why the storyline was happening? Yes, I realize that certain things were glossed over or simplified, or completely omitted entirely, but just seriously think about it without letting which "side" you're on affect what you think your viewpoint should already be. How big of a deal were these changes in the first place? What did they truly amount to in the end? The way certain scenes were done might have been changed to the point where you enjoy the scene for different reasons than the original, but isn't that really a given, considering it's crossed over to a different language and whoever's doing the script will sometimes take liberties to actually adapt the script? Sure, even if dialogue was added to Gohan's transformation, or music was changed during a certain scene, etc., those kinds of things are really accessories, for lack of a better term, for those types of scenes. And when it comes to things like those, there are going to be varying opinions regardless. Even if everyone agrees that Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 transformation was awesome because he let go of his restraints and started kicking ass, people would have varying reasons on what made the actual event so good in the first place. Someone might say that it was the music - another might say that the music almost ruined the moment. Some might say it was the scream. Who knows! Now, the dub definitely made those opinions a lot more divisive - let's not argue that - but it is what it is, and huffing and puffing about it isn't going to change the fact that it's there.

Regardless of how someone is watching, they're stilling watching the same thing in the end.At the end of the day, Vegeta is still an annoying, arrogant asshole who seems to always be mad at people, Piccolo is always the stern, level-headed one, Gohan is still the smart, polite, and reluctant fighter, Krillin is still the slighty-cowardly (well not really cowardly, just easily scared, since a coward is someone who runs away from fear, which Krillin never does) who's desperate for a girlfriend and always provides humor even when the situation is grim, and Goku is still goofy as hell. Going from the Japanese version to the dub is like going to McDonald's and then going to Burger King. Sure the fries are crunchier, the actual store is set up differently, they have chicken tenders instead of Chicken McNuggets, and the burgers may or may not be better, but you know that you're most likely going to get the same shit you get at Burger King that you get at McDonald's - you go to both places for the exact same food, just with a different setting and a slightly different menu to choose from, and the food itself may be cooked differently. But they're still fast food restaurants and you go to them for the exact same purpose. Your mileage may vary, of course. It just depends on how important these changes really are to you as an individual.