KAI review and new animation discussion

[Questrider]

I just finished watching episodes 1-7 of Dragonball Z Kai and I guess I wanted to give my take on it.

For starters, I absolutely loved the translation as it was extremely easy to pick up the differences between Kai and the orange bricks.
It just came across as raw, a bit more direct, and I specifically liked the increase of language.
It just seemed more “adult” to me and a bit more cut throat as it was nice to hear the voice actors not hold back when delivering specific lines.
It seemed to fit the story better and I count the translation as probably the thing I am enjoying about Kai the most.

The one thing I am NOT enjoying so much is Kid Gohan’s voice.
Now, I know a lot of you are digging it and that’s fine. Personally, I was fine with Stephanie but it is a MINOR issue as a whole and it’s probably more of a case where I am still getting “adjusted”. The rest of the voice acting seems superb. (English is what I’m listening to, in case that wasn’t a given)

My only other major issue with Kai is both good and bad at the same time and that issue would be the PACE.
Most of the time, the pace IS working but there are a few circumstances where I would have liked them to slow things down.
Particularly in regards to Gohan’s training.

Now, I know Kai is to follow the manga as accurately as possible but there are moments such as this where I feel things moved a bit too quickly.
In the original DBZ, I liked watching Gohan’s growth and I liked watching him grow up a bit.
In Kai, this happened in 2 episodes flat.
One episode Gohan was still the afraid little boy whereas in the next he was experienced, unafraid, as if it had all happened over night.
Of course the narrator was there to explain how the 6 months went by, but it’s moments like this that gave depth to the series, you watched and grew with the character, and so in Kai’s case- I am feeling a slight loss of heart.

In the end, I suppose it’s a bit of a trade off. In a lot of cases, some of the filler in DBZ was excessive; but in Kai’s case it is sometimes not enough.
It seems fair in the end, I guess, as there ARE moments in DBZ that I would like to fast forward through and other times where I liked when and where it lingered.
Kai seems to try to balance both and so I suppose it will always be a bit of a mixed bag.

The last thing I want to talk about is the animation.
Now, I know we didn’t like the scene with Nappa and Vegeta chilling on that planet with colors popping out of the screen. I didn’t like that either.
It was horribly done but I guess that’s another trade off in trying to present the most consistent footage possible.

My biggest question through all of Kai has been this:
Why couldn’t they take the time to present Kai in the SAME animation as the opening and closing credits?
That animation is awesome!!

I would have loved to see all of my favorite scenes in DBZ again recreated in that style as they could have tweaked so much, gone with so many more fierce angles, close up’s, etc, but in the end, would the fans have wanted that?
Since we already have the Dragonboxes, orange bricks, etc, my answer to that would have been a big YES.

It would have made Kai its own, OWN show instead of an edited condensed version of the original and I for one would have drooled over it.
Of course I like the old animation. Don’t doubt that at all.
The only thing is, I’ve seen it over and over and this was really their big chance to give us something new WITHOUT having to create a new story.
Yes, I get that Kai IS NEW in its own right but I would have gone several steps further.
I also understand that this would have been a colossal undertaking in creating entirely new animation but I think it really would have been awesome and well worth the time to create.

After all, this was the BIG anniversary and it any of you had seen what they did with Yo! Son Goku and his Friend return, then you KNOW that this animation WORKED.
Well, at least it worked for me.

And so I ask in closing, do you think they will ever do something like this?
Re-do the entire series in this newer animation?
(I mean, they ARE making a new Voltron series, and while it will not be done by TOEI, who actually handled the original, why not DBZ?)

The answer is probably a big NO, but it doesn’t keep this viewer from wishing for something bigger.
I also know that Toriyama has expressed repeatedly that he no longer wishes to continue the series but how about a new movie here and there?

[dan2026]

Why couldn’t they take the time to present Kai in the SAME animation as the opening and closing credits?

Money, money, money.
It just wouldn't be worth Toei's time to recreate an extremely long old show, when it is cheaper and more cost-effective to remaster it instead.

Toei are also notoriously cheap bastards, I'm surprised they even put up the money to make Kai.
I am glad they did though.

[Cipher]

I agree with almost every part of this (except enjoying Kai as a whole, which I don't).

The English dub is superb, and really the only I way I care to watch it. The Japanese acting is actually a step down from what we've previously had, while the English version is by far the best Funimation has ever done with the property. They're finally both saying the same things, so I'll watch the one that's not worse retread of material I already have.

There are three enormous things holding Kai back for me, two of which you touched upon in your post. First and foremost, it will always suffer from being a rearrangement of old footage. There's the initial fact that it's simply infuriating for Toei to have copped out of an actual remake, and it's always going to seem awkward when they're trying to push the new pacing on footage that wasn't directed to accommodate it. There will always be editing snafus, awkward moments, and of course the digitally redrawn scenes look completely out of place. So, yikes.

Secondly, there's the pacing of the overall show. Yes, Z dragged, and Kai does a decent job and reeling everything in, but their "manga only" approach really throws some things off. It may astound you, but the clipped pacing of a weekly serialized manga does not always translate well to a weekly television series. Toriyama had maybe twelve or so pages to work in a coherent event for a chapter. a lot of times, that lends itself to faster pacing than would maybe be preferable. A lot of the padding in Z actually did help things flow better. It's just the staring contests and cuts to the peanut gallery needed to go.

And finally, how do you feel about the music?

[MR.Mark]

There will always be editing snafus, awkward moments

DBZ is guilty of awkward moments, due to editing, BECAUSE of the filler. DBZ feels like a live action series that was shot, then taken into an editing room. Where the extra shot footage and fluff was left due to amateur editing. You wanna talk awkward moments? Look at almost any scene in DBZ where a character charges at someone, with the intent of hitting them, then thrill as they seem to hover in front of them for about 10 seconds before the hit connects. Vegeta killing Zarbon and Dabura killing Kibit anyone? If that was real time, Kibit could of dodged that blast ten times over. Awkward bad editing because of the padding.

and of course the digitally redrawn scenes look completely out of place. So, yikes.

While watching my dragonbox, I was in awe of Trunks slicing Freeza, then right after I was greeted with animated diarrhea of him being sliced again, yikes indeed. In Kai, all you got to see was Freeza getting diced up while in "triangle" mode, it was kept to a minimum. Yes the "reanimated" scenes are hit and miss, but personally on blu ray I noticed they blend in far better and at times "pop", in a good way. I'll take kai, where due to the quicker pace, your guaranteed at least SOME good animation EVERY episode. Whereas in DBZ most of the time you get a well animated but slow moving episode, followed by a badly animated AND slow moving episode. That's WAY more distracting to me, imo.

It may astound you, but the clipped pacing of a weekly serialized manga does not always translate well to a weekly television series. Toriyama had maybe twelve or so pages to work in a coherent event for a chapter. a lot of times, that lends itself to faster pacing than would maybe be preferable. A lot of the padding in Z actually did help things flow better.

I'd agree with you if the whole DBZ series was done like the saiyan ark. I'm really at a loss at trying to think where the padding made the story flow better once they're on namek, until the end of the Buu ark.

[Cipher]

It definitely helped the Buu arc. Not every time it was present, but over all I thought that arc was much better handled in the anime. Again, I'm not talking staring contests or random hovering or cuts to commentary from side characters. Just little, subtle padding and legitimate b-plots that really flesh out events a way helpful for an adaptation which can be a bit more carefree with its time than a twelve-page chapter.

While watching my dragonbox, I was in awe of Trunks slicing Freeza, then right after I was greeted with animated diarrhea of him being sliced again, yikes indeed. In Kai, all you got to see was Freeza getting diced up while in "triangle" mode, it was kept to a minimum

It doesn't really take you out of the moment when the animation style literally switches in the same scene? I'll take one good looking episode followed by one bad looking episode over something that switches awkwardly in the middle. Far less jarring.

Where the extra shot footage and fluff was left due to amateur editing. You wanna talk awkward moments? Look at almost any scene in DBZ where a character charges at someone, with the intent of hitting them, then thrill as they seem to hover in front of them for about 10 seconds before the hit connects. Vegeta killing Zarbon and Dabura killing Kibit anyone? If that was real time, Kibit could of dodged that blast ten times over. Awkward bad editing because of the padding.

And then Kai goes and uses that same footage, with illustrations and directing having been made with the original awkward pacing in mind, and tries to jerry rig around it. Maybe I just notice it more, but awkwardly timed footage + more cutting and attempts to hide awkward timing = even more awkward.

[MR.Mark]

It definitely helped the Buu arc. Not every time it was present, but over all I thought that arc was much better handled in the anime. Again, I'm not talking staring contests or random hovering or cuts to commentary from side characters. Just little, subtle padding and legitimate b-plots that really flesh out events a way helpful for an adaptation which can be a bit more carefree with its time than a twelve-page chapter.

If most of the filler in the Buu arc fleshed out things like the Goku and Vegeta fight (minus the nonsense of Goku hanging off a cliff, like the Freeza fight), I'd agree with you. However, when I see Videl getting her ass beat by Spopovich, I'm constantly reminded that this doesn't need to go on this long.

It doesn't really take you out of the moment when the animation style literally switches in the same scene? I'll take one good looking episode followed by one bad looking episode over something that switches awkwardly in the middle. Far less jarring.

Have you watched the DBZ version of the Goku and Freeza fight lately? Remember I said MOST of the time you'd get a consistently good art episode. There are episodes in Z where art jumped around before Kai came along. So I'll take Kai having some good art in every episode. I'd rather not watch entire episodes of triangle crap in Kai.

Maybe I just notice it more, but awkwardly timed footage + more cutting and attempts to hide awkward timing = even more awkward.

Examples?