Super Saiyans Going Too Far?

[KakaR0T]

I feel that going beyond a super saiyan is ridiculous. There should only be one "level". But for those who say "well if super saiyans stop at level one then so does the series" I say that is not true.

After the epic Freeza arc we still had some ground yet to be covered. We still needed to see how strong Piccolo would be after fusing with Kami. Maybe Goku could have learned fusion as well as instantaneous movement on Yardrat. That way when this new enemy comes along, we can have the good guys be stronger without having to resort to a new level of super saiyan.

Now that I think about it, the Cell arc is kind of funny. If you think about it, the whole android/cell arc was started because of some short guy (who died a long time ago) wanted to grow a few inches taller. I mean sheesh, can we just bury the hatchet already?

If I were to redo the Z series, I would keep the first 107 episodes untouched. I would get rid of the Garlic Jr. arc, and I would introduce fusion much sooner to avoid the need to go beyond a super saiyan.

[Godo]

I feel that going beyond a super saiyan is ridiculous. There should only be one "level". But for those who say "well if super saiyans stop at level one then so does the series" I say that is not true.

Exactly. The series did fine before the Super Saiya-jin was introduced. I mean, for the whole DB and one third of DBZ.
We could have managed without more SSJs too.
Let the transformation to be a last resort thing. and it would be cool if they added a point in the series where Goku couldn't use it because of that all his power had made him a bit corrupt mentally, so he lost much of his power and had to regain it again.

[Xyex]

I feel that going beyond a super saiyan is ridiculous. There should only be one "level". But for those who say "well if super saiyans stop at level one then so does the series" I say that is not true.

After the epic Freeza arc we still had some ground yet to be covered. We still needed to see how strong Piccolo would be after fusing with Kami. Maybe Goku could have learned fusion as well as instantaneous movement on Yardrat. That way when this new enemy comes along, we can have the good guys be stronger without having to resort to a new level of super saiyan.

Now that I think about it, the Cell arc is kind of funny. If you think about it, the whole android/cell arc was started because of some short guy (who died a long time ago) wanted to grow a few inches taller. I mean sheesh, can we just bury the hatchet already?

If I were to redo the Z series, I would keep the first 107 episodes untouched. I would get rid of the Garlic Jr. arc, and I would introduce fusion much sooner to avoid the need to go beyond a super saiyan.

Eh, there's a problem with that, though. I should know, as I've come across it in my fanfiction. If you bring in fusion earlier in the story... it gets spammed. A lot. It's inevitable. It just becomes the next level of SSJ. And so, instead of getting the SSJU forms and such in the series, we'd have gotten fusions. I mean, sure, we could have gotten an awesome canon version of Tiencha, but....

Goku vs. 19 would have been Gokuhan vs. 19. We'd have probably gotten Vegeta coming in and saving them on his own still, and fighting 18 solo, but then Vegeta vs. Cell would have been Trugeta vs. Cell instead. Goku vs. Cell would have been Gokuhan vs. Cell. Then you move on to the Buu saga and Gotenks would have been running around from the start of the saga. We'd probably have seen Gokuhan again, against Dabura. Then probably Gokuhan vs. Majin Vegeta. We'd likely still get Gotenks, but not Vegetto. Goku and Gohan would both have their powers unlocked and we'd get Ultimate Gokuhan, who would then kill Super Buu.

Believe me, I know from experience just how hard it is to try and balance the use of fusion when you've got a lot of story to go. You can't just constantly make up excuse for people not to fuse. GT initially did this well with no fusion pairs being together in space. But then Goku telling Goten and Trunks that Gotenks would just get in the way? Hell no. And add to this your "SSJ1 is the limit" concept and that's an even bigger hell no. An SSJ fusion would always be stronger than a 'normal' SSJ.

Now, leave out fusion, and he could have left SSJ1's development end with MSSJ at the Cell Games. Turned Gohan's SSJ2 into his full powered MSSJ state, instead of being a transformation. Then, come the Buu era, we just have a bunch of MSSJs running around instead, and it'd work out about the same as it does now. The only things that would need tweaking would be SSJ3 Goku vs. Majin Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks vs. Super Buu. Replace SSJ3 Goku with an SSJU Goku instead (they're practically the same concept anyway, SSJ3 just doesn't cause speed loss, though I don't think SSJU does either, just SSJU2), and simply have Gotenks reveal that he's not been using his full power in SSJ up until now, and you'd be set.

I still think my 'temporary SSJ' idea would be the best option, though. In that way, too, future enemies don't become absurdly more powerful than previous ones. I worked out a power chart for it a while back and I figured Buff Cell would be as powerful as 100% Freeza, with Super Perfect being a little over SSJ Namek Goku. No SSJ power for stopping Cell, though. Just Gohan with a Kaioken and RAGE.

Limit Kaioken in the early series to x5 only. Goku develops the use of x10 and x20 while dead as 'stand ins' for SSJ2/3. Only time SSJ is ever seen is Goku vs. Freeza and Vegetto, who is an SSJ from the instant of his creation. This keeps powers from going way through the roof but still, in the end, enables Majin Buu to be more than 5x stronger than Freeza, and thusly still a real threat to the Universe and Kaioshin.

[Bussani]

Exactly. The series did fine before the Super Saiya-jin was introduced. I mean, for the whole DB and one third of DBZ.

Maybe, but Dragon Ball was basically "I trained and got stronger, now I can win" from start to finish. Dragon Ball Z probably could have done with more fights won with strategy like in Dragon Ball rather than just "I'm thousands of times stronger than you," but without Super Saiyan and going beyond Super Saiyan, the training would just be more of what had come before. Personally, I think it would be boring. I like the idea of needing to go beyond Super Saiyan, because it was different to what had come before. They were trying something completely new. And once the Cell saga was over, despite the introduction of Super Saiyan 3, the focus of the story shifted to trying new things again.

[Godo]

Leaving SSJ out of the picture as something permanent of Goku's and also having it exclusive to Goku would give the following benefits:

1) The Androids could be weaker than Freeza, keeping Freeza as the big threat he actually was.
2) No dragged out attempts of trying to reach a new level. I would rather watch tactical fights than a Super-Saiyaorrhea.
Who didn't enjoy Piccolo, Gohan and Kuririn vs. Nappa? They went with tactics all the way.
3) Other characters could also help out in the series, making Tenshinhan's Kiko-ho against Buu something actually plausible.
4) Goku already had Kaio-ken. And other characters could learn it too.
5) The SSJ could be used against Buu, since he was the Kaioshin's enemy. To use it against Cell, a creation of a scientist from Earth makes it too cheap.
6) No Goten and Trunks being at least as strong as Freeza without trying.

They are not many, but to me they are essential.