Acting: JpnDBZ vs. Kai vs. DUB kai (better/worse deliveries)

[MR.Mark]

Seeing as we'll be hearing more Funi recasts soon, not to mention the several recasts the Japanese version of Kai has had so far. I think the timing is right for this topic.

In this thread, let's discuss the pros and cons of the aging returning cast for Kai vs. DBZ. As well as how the Japanese Kai recasts stack up to the original actors in Z. On top of that, We'll also discuss how the dub actors compare to the Japanese Kai and scenes you feel they actually surpass the original. That's right you heard me (or eh, read me) , be it entire roles or just instances where the English performances are better than the Japanese.

I have a lot to say, but I'll just use one example for now to get the ball rolling.

KAI VERSION: Vegeta's power up scene against Goku (SAIYAN ARC): Sabat vs. Horikawa

I've had certain issues with Sabat's Vegeta voice, but there's no denying the guy can do solid acting now. At this point in the Saiyan arc dub, one of the most major differences that stuck out to me, was Chris's ability to ACTUALLY yell this time!

Seriously, Sabat was once one the absolute worst at screaming in the Funi cast, what a total 180 in the Kai dub! So in terms of the performance of the scene in question, I'm gonna have to give it to Sabat this time. Ryu just didn't do it for me this time around, going for this weird "quivering", kinda sounding like Vegeta is struggling. Sabat's was more to the point, sounding angry, in a good way.

KAI VERSION: Vegeta's power up scene against Goku (SAIYAN ARC) : SABAT WINS!

I look forward to reading and discussing other fans feelings on this!

[Cableguy15]

Will I be hunted down and killed if I attempt to compare with some of the Ocean VAs performances too?

For me, I generally feel that the original beats out the others overall. For some reason when I hear the voices in Kai, I feel a little disappointed sometimes because there are minor differences that bother me. This is pretty much because of which versions I saw first so it's hard not to be biased about this. But I'll try.

Goku's Voice: I really feel that Sean Schemmel has done an amazing job as Goku so far in the dubbing of Kai. I wish I could find a clip somewhere to post an example, but the effort he's putting in is really showing. As I brought up in the other thread, the voice acting for when Goku used the Triple Kaio-ken against Vegeta was very well done by him. You could sense the desperation and strain on his body, all in his voice. He seems to have nailed all aspects of Goku as well. He can just as easily be non serious or calm as the part demands. I think he's established himself as one of the best VAs for Goku. As for the original and Kai... well I'll put it this way. I've never liked the idea of Goku having a child's voice when he was an adult. From the 23rd Budokai on, I always found his original voice awkward. Granted, there are some scenes that can't be replaced with that voice, but I prefer for him to sound his age still.

[penguintruth]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I think that most of English dub cast has definitely shown they can do a competent job in their roles, but I don't hear any cases wherein the English voice is prefferable to the Japanese voice, even with the Japanese cast aged.

Really, the only person who seems that weakened with age is Ryo Horikawa, and he still out performs Chris Sabat handily. Masako Nozawa sounded a little awkward in the first few episodes, as well as Hiromi Tsuru and Mayami Tanaka (because she was mostly doing her Luffy voice for Kuririn), but they shook off any rust soon afterwards.

Nozawa still proves time and time again that she's THE voice of Son Goku. Sean Schemmel at most has moved into "tolerable".

Tohru Furuya sounds pretty much as he always has. I swear, the guy doesn't age. It's all that Newtype power.

I've been fairly impressed with the improvements of some English VAs in the show, but I wouldn't go as far as putting them in the same league as the Japanese cast.

[Cableguy15]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I think that most of English dub cast has definitely shown they can do a competent job in their roles, but I don't hear any cases wherein the English voice is prefferable to the Japanese voice, even with the Japanese cast aged.

This is certainly true when it comes to the general consensus, but I'm sure that I'm not the only one who prefers another voice to Goku's original. I'd also add Goku's first Ocean dub VA into the discussion, but that's not really a part of this topic.

Also, I still think the original voices are overall the best, it's just one voice I never particularly cared for to begin with.

[penguintruth]

I'd argue to the contrary, but I think you've all read enough of my Goku voice opinions for a while.

My opinion is in my signature, anyway...

[MR.Mark]

the only person who seems that weakened with age is Ryo Horikawa, and he still out performs Chris Sabat handily.

Not with that "erereerereererere" he was doing. Sorry to say I can take the fan boy goggles off and admit when an original Japanese actor doesn't cut it in a scene.

Nozawa still proves time and time again that she's THE voice of Son Goku. Sean Schemmel at most has moved into "tolerable".

As much as I agree, Masako and Sean actually have something in common in there performance as Son Goku: THE STRAINING

Don't get me wrong , Masako IS Son Goku, no doubt, but if there's one thing she tends to overact on, it's the KkkkkkkUUUAHHH!!! in her straining voice, not unlike Sean's over done grunts. Both can be grating on the ears, believe it or not, not everything to come out of Nozawa's mouth has been pure gold from heaven.

[penguintruth]

I always thought those kkkkchhkkcchkkkchkkk noises were part of the charm of the show. Like, these guys are in so much pain or rage that they have to clench their teeth and breathe through them or they'll scream their lungs out. But yeah, when you think about it, it is pretty dumb.

[MR.Mark]

but I don't hear any cases wherein the English voice is prefferable to the Japanese voice, even with the Japanese cast aged.

Yajirobe, IMO

I always thought those kkkkchhkkcchkkkchkkk noises were part of the charm of the show. Like, these guys are in so much pain or rage that they have to clench their teeth and breathe through them or they'll scream their lungs out. But yeah, when you think about it, it is pretty dumb.

I don't have issue with any of the other cast doing it honestly, just Nozawa. She just dials it up to high at times.

Since I said something negative about Horikawa, I will now bring up a performance I thought he did better in Kai. The scene most remember as "you wont escape my wrath" scene. I just felt Ryo matched the intensity of the animation better here. Maybe partly due to the cleaner audio, or new re-verb effect. plus the mouth flaps matching are always good. Sabat sucked hard in the DBZ version of this scene, I hope he fairs better in Kai. Though from a pure raw emotion stand point, Brian Drummond may have them all beat here.

I've been fairly impressed with the improvements of some English VAs in the show, but I wouldn't go as far as putting them in the same league as the Japanese cast.

Indeed, I feel the same way, I never stated overwise. I was asking if anyone else felt that way, while I'm more on the fence of liking certain minor roles in English (Badidi, Yajirobe). What I was personally critiquing were acting MOMENTS where Funi did it better with major characters, not ENTIRE roles with major characters.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

As much as I hate to say it, in DBKai, the performance of the Japanese cast is no where near as good as it was in Z, and the performance of the English cast has really improved since Z.


Futhermore, it's really difficult to compare the Japanese cast to the English cast because obviously they speak two different languages and also the voice types between some characters in both versions are different. Eg, Nozawa/Schemmel, Horikawa/Sabat and Yanami/Schemmel.

[MR.Mark]

As much as I hate to say it, in DBKai, the performance of the Japanese cast is no where near as good as it was in Z

"no where near" is much to harsh, at best it's inconsistent. Much more often than not, there as good as always, and even better, the odd time.

Futhermore, it's really difficult to compare the Japanese cast to the English cast because obviously they speak two different languages and also the voice types between some characters in both versions are different. Eg, Nozawa/Schemmel, Horikawa/Sabat and Yanami/Schemmel.

But no matter the language, acting is acting, so being able to compare should be no problem at all.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

But no matter the language, acting is acting, so being able to compare should be no problem at all.

Don't get me wrong, we can compare them, it just wouldn't be as easy as comparing two English speaking actors.

"no where near" is much to harsh, at best it's inconsistent. Much more often than not, there as good as always, and even better, the odd time.

It's personal preference really. I've been really let down by the acting from the Japanese cast in Kai and I'm not liking the replacement voices either.

[MR.Mark]

I've been really let down by the acting from the Japanese cast

Who in the cast is letting you down, why?

in Kai and I'm not liking the replacement voices either.

Which replacements do you not like? Please explain, it's what the topic is for.

I'll be updating with my thoughts on this subject soon, but I will say I like certain recasts, like Dende.

[B]

Nozawa's, Furukawa's, and Horikawa's Kai performances are blowing me away. Everyone else is pretty much at a similar level to Z.

[Cableguy15]

Just wondering... how do you guys compare voices? I mean, do you base it off how well the VA of one version captures the voice of the original? Or maybe how you pictured them sounding when you read the manga? Maybe how much emotion is put into their work?

Me, I just look for the right tones at the right times, which is exactly why I praised Schemmel in the previous post so much. He's got every part of Goku's personality down to a tee in my view, and that's all I can really ask for.

I also really like it when a voice is given a completely different spin on things, but still makes sense to the story. This is why I liked a lot of Ocean dub's VAs. Piccolo sounded like he wasn't from this world, Vegeta sounded like a mad man (As he should in the beginning), and a few other voices just seemed to click.

[jjgp1112]

In my opinion, the voice performance for Dub Kai is just as good as the DBZ dub. That's why I'm probably the only person not drooling over it.

And I also dislike the important replacements, so that's a factor as well.

[Innagadadavida]

In my opinion, the voice performance for Dub Kai is just as good as the DBZ dub. That's why I'm probably the only person not drooling over it.

And I also dislike the important replacements, so that's a factor as well.

I dunno, I think if you really listen, even you can admit that the acting and delivery are a notch above Season 1 and 2's redubs and the later movies. They're not even in the same league and seasons 3, 4, 5, and 6. The script compliments the seasoned acting talent too. I mean, did you hear Goku's speech to Krillin about letting Vegeta go? When have you ever heard something that true-to-character ever come out of Shemmel's mouth?

[Kendamu]

The only Japanese voice I've had problems with so far was Bulma's. She sounds like she's phoning it in half the time. The new US Bulma, on the other hand, really seems to put some care into her role, even if it is a small role.

Other than that, I prefer the Japanese cast but I don't dislike the US cast.

[MR.Mark]

In my opinion, the voice performance for Dub Kai is just as good as the DBZ dub. That's why I'm probably the only person not drooling over it.

Then this topic is not for you, because you my good sir are either deaf, don't know good acting when you hear it, or at the very least extremely clouded by nostalgia. To even put "DBZ dub" and "good" in the same sentence is a complete joke.
I don't mean to be so blunt but It had to be said.

Now I'd like to go into Japanese Kai recasts vs Japanese DBZ:

Ginyu: I feel both actors gave solid performances, with the new guy being a little more youthful, I'd could go ether way.

Recoom: DBZ wins this for sure, Kai's voice was just to "generic big guy". DBZ's Recoom had a little flamboyance and fit his dopey appearance, without having to sound like a retard like the dub.

Ghurd: Leaning more on Z, but can go either way more or less.

Jheese: Kai voice suited him well enough, but the DBZ voice has a little more something special to the sound quality of it.

Baata: Kai/DBZ voice are equal, as he is the one Ginyu member with the least going on for the character. There wasn't anything to "get right" with this guy.

The only Japanese voice I've had problems with so far was Bulma's. She sounds like she's phoning it in half the time. The new US Bulma, on the other hand, really seems to put some care into her role.

Perfect example of "moments were the dub actors are better" , Hiromi Tsuru is just fine in Kai. EXCEPT when Bulma seems to have to raise her voice to scream or do a ohohohh snob laugh. She just doesn't go as shrill as she does in DBZ. Monica as Bulma meanwhile isn't afraid at all to sound shrill and raise her voice in the dub.

[jjgp1112]

In my opinion, the voice performance for Dub Kai is just as good as the DBZ dub. That's why I'm probably the only person not drooling over it.

Then this topic is not for you, because you my good sir are either deaf, don't know good acting when you hear it, or at the very least extremely clouded by nostalgia. To even put "DBZ dub" and "good" in the same sentence is a complete joke.
I don't mean to be so blunt but It had to be said.

Well, I was mainly referring to Seasons 1 & 2, the movies, and the Cell and Buu sagas, but thanks for the Toxic King-esque speech anyways

[MR.Mark]

Well, I was mainly referring to Seasons 1 & 2, the movies, and the Cell and Buu sagas, but thanks for the Toxic King-esque speech anyways

Well, many here will tell you they feel the Kai dub is on a whole different level over all English efforts before it. Irregardless, I suggest you just stay away from this thread as you take criticism of the DBZ English dub far to personally.