New Freeza Talkback

[JulieYBM]

That's ridiculous. Funimation is doing a dub of the anime, not the manga. Let Toei worry about being faithful to the manga. Funimation should be faithful to the Japanese version of the anime. I doubt they've even sat down and read the manga.

Yeah, Mike McFarland says as much on the commentary for One Piece Season Three First Voyage (episode #144), that while the manga is good for getting the skinny (just like most of the staff at FUNimation, apparently) he is in the end directing an anime dub, not the manga.

[TonyTheTiger]

I agree with both of you. They are adapting the anime; therefore, the dub should be accurate to the anime. But I also don't like to hinder actors in their performances. I don't expect it to be spot on, but I do think they should try to capture a certain essence. Basically, it's all pretty ethereal. I can accept something that's way off base as long as it's done exceptionally well.

I think the word you're looking for is "convincing." What was people's real problem with Linda Young? It can't just be people not liking her voice or her acting. There's more to it than that. Everything sort of has to come together. Freeza's appearance, his personality, his actual lines, his voice, his attitude, etc. All of that comes together and hopefully will be convincing. Young just wasn't convincing for most people. Something was off and it wasn't just because she didn't sound like Nakao.

I don't think anybody sane is expecting Chris Ayres to be "English Nakao." That's an unreasonable expectation for any dub. What isn't unreasonable is expecting Chris Ayres to be "English Freeza." We know Freeza's personality, his attitude, his quirks. The Japanese language track isn't really all that important in that calculus given that we can know Freeza without listening to it. You're not trying to mimic a specific voice. You're trying to properly voice a character.

[SSVegetto]

Have you honestly somehow missed the endless threads where people criticize Nozawa's portrayal of the Son family?

Yes, where are they? Endless? Are you sure you aren't exaggerating? I would love to see them.

I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth

I read your words carefully. And I will read them carefully again. You coin the phrase "Perfect dub"
So okay, your praising the Funi's English dub of Kai. Praising it so much. But then you go and say. Nope, it's still not perfect. Then later on you say, the Japanese dub is what you expect to be Dragonball.

So.... What is the point of praising the English Kai dub? If at the end of the day you are going to say. It's still not perfect. And you love the Japanese dub. I mean.... But um, you coined the word "perfect" and you praised Kai's English dub well, but still said, nope not perfect. But in so many words basically said the Japanese dub is perfect in your eyes.

So I can't help but not conclude what I think. That it's a bias. No words or anything to back up what differs, except that it's Japanese. Schemmel and Sabat roles are wrong. But you said nothing to back anything up. But maybe I shouldn't assume it anyways. So maybe I'm wrong. I MEAN come on, all these praises you gave it, but nope it still fails and the Japanese dub wins? I can not interpert this any other way. If you praise something so good, but yet say it's still not good enough for the precious Japanese dub. Then I can only only assume that it's just because it's Japanese, it over takes. And no one can content with their awesomeness.

Don't twist people's words around. Nearly every major Dragon Ball product was made in Japan, and thus the Japanese version of those things is the original version. The only exceptions are a handful of video games, like Legacy of Goku, and maybe FUNimation's dub music. So, yes, being from Japan is the same thing as being the original version. Being a purist doesn't make you a Japanophile.

Now, wait a second. He is talking about the music though. Since DBZ and Dragonball Kai have different music tracks. He is saying it's okay to disregard Bruce Faulconer's track because Toei didn't produce. But nobody can disregard Kai's music track. Because that is stilll original and it's was made in Toei.

So he is saying that all opinions about the Faulconer don't have meaning. Because it's not original. But it is original in it's own sense. So Toei can do something different from their music. But that's still original. Yet, the Faulconer tracks weren't original. BASICALLY HE is stating EVERYTHING IN THE UNITED STATES AUTOMATICALLY SUCKS BECAUSE ITS NOT ORIGINAL. AND EVERYONE IS DISREGARDING IT.

That is bs statement. You aren't grasping what I was grasping at. So in turn him stating that, basically states that everything in Japan is just automatically perfect and original. And ours is poop, and we aren't allowed to critique it. Maybe ours does suck, but what he is saying is, that everyone should or tends to disregard it without any chance whatsoever because it's not from Japan. I hate those kind of statements.

I know what original means. But it does not always mean better. Or right. That is the way he is putting it....

Most of your other comments about people's supposed Japan-worshiping are ridiculous and untrue, anyway. Plenty of people do critique the Japanese actors, and other elements of the Japanese production. You're either not looking hard enough, or you're ignoring it.

People complaining about the Japanese actors is no where close to even the amount or the people here critique the English dub. And the people that critique the English dub, analyze it more deeply than they do for the Japanese dub. I mean they even dwell on it. I mean really really dwell on their critiques for the English dub. Five pages of stuff created under 10 seconds. It does not compare to the critics for the Japanese dub. Most people just assume it's right and perfect. And we aren't allowed to second guess it. It is "Law". That to me is worshiping Japanese and having an extremists on our hands.

Also, while I agree that people shouldn't go overboard with their posts, people are allowed to have negative opinions. It doesn't make them whiny basement dwelling losers. But the fact that you made such a huge rant implying that makes me think, "Pot, kettle?"

My rant only implied that I think some people are just over analyzing the English dub for Kai. Not that they are losers. I did use the phrase basement. But not losers.

[Gaffer Tape]

I read your words carefully. And I will read them carefully again. You coin the phrase "Perfect dub"
So okay, your praising the Funi's English dub of Kai. Praising it so much. But then you go and say. Nope, it's still not perfect. Then later on you say, the Japanese dub is what you expect to be Dragonball.

So.... What is the point of praising the English Kai dub? If at the end of the day you are going to say. It's still not perfect. And you love the Japanese dub. I mean.... But um, you coined the word "perfect" and you praised Kai's English dub well, but still said, nope not perfect. But in so many words basically said the Japanese dub is perfect in your eyes.

So... in your view of the world, positive acceptance for something means never being allowed to find fault in it? If you like something, you must concede that it's perfect, and you're never allowed to speak ill of it? I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous. Honestly, if someone cares about something, they're even more inclined to find fault in it because they want it to be the best possible product it can be. And just because Kai's dub is an improvement doesn't mean there's still not a lot wrong with it. And that's not my "Japanophile bias" peeking through. That's just my reasoned opinion.

Oh, and I doubt she "coined" the word perfect. I think the word has been around long before any of us were ever born.

Have you honestly somehow missed the endless threads where people criticize Nozawa's portrayal of the Son family?

Yes, where are they? Endless? Are you sure you aren't exaggerating? I would love to see them.

Here's one just off the top of my head. It was pretty big just a month ago:

http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... =7&t=13289

Have fun.

[VegettoEX]

Warnings have been issued. They will be followed-up with further action if necessary, though we of course hope it never comes to that.

Please return to your regularly-scheduled, polite, respectful, and engaging conversation... preferably of the kind that does not have Freeza's trademark arrogance and denial behind it ^_~.

[Cableguy15]

That's ridiculous. Funimation is doing a dub of the anime, not the manga. Let Toei worry about being faithful to the manga. Funimation should be faithful to the Japanese version of the anime. I doubt they've even sat down and read the manga.

What I'm saying is that what truly matters isn't how close the VA sounds to the original voice, but instead how close they come to putting said character's personality into their voice. The personality comes from the manga not the anime.

Keeping that in mind, that's why I feel this dubbing of Kai has been excellent so far, and while the new Freeza VA does indeed sound similar to Ocean dub's, the delivery is by far superior, and that's what's important. Not something so shallow as how well they can imitate a voice. lol

[Xyex]

What I'm saying is that what truly matters isn't how close the VA sounds to the original voice, but instead how close they come to putting said character's personality into their voice. The personality comes from the manga not the anime.

Keeping that in mind, that's why I feel this dubbing of Kai has been excellent so far, and while the new Freeza VA does indeed sound similar to Ocean dub's, the delivery is by far superior, and that's what's important. Not something so shallow as how well they can imitate a voice. lol

And this here is the only reason I can see anyone liking the voice. I don't, because the actual acting blows horribly, but I can tell it's a lot more like the original Freeza in nature. If the acting were actually, you know, good, I wouldn't have any problems with it. I'm fine with change so long as it's an improvement. So far Kai has failed on all three major recasts to improve anything.

[Gaffer Tape]

That's funny because I feel the exact opposite: I think it's quite in line with the previous dub Freezas but better acted. Opinions are funny like that, aren't they?

[Big Momma]

Young's voice aside, I think her acting was as good as it could have been with the direction she was getting. I'm sure she could do acting nearly, if not as good as Ayres is. It's just she wasn't getting good direction. I heard plenty of politeness-that's-easily-turned-to-anger in her tone. It's just the voice that wasn't the greatest, even though I didn't even think it was all that bad.

[MR.Mark]

What I'm saying is that what truly matters isn't how close the VA sounds to the original voice, but instead how close they come to putting said character's personality into their voice. The personality comes from the manga not the anime.

Fully agreed, in a good dub, doing the character justice should be priority number one. The reason I'm loving Chris's Freeza is to me, for the first time, it's the character only in English.

Besides, Aryres already has enough Ryusei Nakao qualities to his take that it should at the very least please Nakao fans.
In the end though, it should be about doing justice to the character that originated from the manga. Not justice to the voice actor, put to much emphasis on an impression and you end up with a caricature.

Do fans want the "season 3" equivalent of a dub cast putting acting second and trying there hardest to imitate the Japanese cast? We all know how "season 3" turned out with trying to imitate the ocean group, seems like a double standard to me.

[sangofe]

After having watched a bunch of clips from Ayres' Freeza, I have to say this voice is much more fitting than Linda Young's voice was, and he's also a better voice actor. I'm looking forward to seing if he can pull of being polite AND pissed off with the same arrogance the Japanese Freeza has.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

Actually he already piss, he yell at Dodoria at angry tone

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Actually he already piss, he yell at Dodoria at angry tone

I really don't think their kind urinates.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Actually he already piss, he yell at Dodoria at angry tone

I really don't think their kind urinates.

Yeah, don't yell at Dodoria, you'll hurt her feelings.

[VegettoEX]

We get it, folks -- you think it's funny when people who don't natively speak English use our words in strange ways when posting here.

Either carry on with an actual conversation, or please don't bother replying in the thread. Don't contribute with crap. Thanks.

[TheBlackPaladin]

We get it, folks -- you think it's funny when people who don't natively speak English use our words in strange ways when posting here.

Either carry on with an actual conversation, or please don't bother replying in the thread. Don't contribute with crap. Thanks.

Well, actually, my last post was just a TFS reference, not intended to hurt anyone's feelings or take jabs at someone. I'm sorry if I came across that way, though.

[VegettoEX]

Trust me, I'm not missing any TeamFourStar references anywhere -- they're not lost on me. I was not even referring to your post, though it was "crap" in response to "crap", so the message still has weight.

[Kirbopher]

ANYWHO.

I stand by what I said earlier, before Freeza's premiere, about Chris being the closest match as far as Nakao's delivery. Yes, there are some minute differences in their vocal tones, but his portrayal and Tatum's REALLY good adaptive scripting make this version of Freeza every bit as disturbing and interesting as the original, at least to me. Chris has been doing this for years and he's incredibly good, despite a lotta people not even knowing this because they haven't heard him nearly enough to be aware. Freeza's transformations, especially his final form, are gonna be even MORE to look forward to.

[KaiserNeko]

Oh man. This may sound really bad to some people, but I just realized...

Ayres' Freeza sounds almost exactly like Invade Zim sometimes. ^.^;

[The Time Traveller]

Oh man. This may sound really bad to some people, but I just realized...

Ayres' Freeza sounds almost exactly like Invade Zim sometimes. ^.^;

I said the same thing in the chat earlier I think, it IS rather uncanny.

And after someone posted that Freeza/Zim video...