If GT didn't exist...

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:16 am

Even though I love Z, I still say Dragon Ball's ending would've been satisfying, or if Toriyama ended it at the Frieza or Cell sagas like he wanted. Though, now that I think about it, if he did end it at the Frieza saga, do you think Vegeta would have been revived, or left dead?

SpaceKappa · Post by **SpaceKappa** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:38 am

Keep in mind Gokuu didn't officially "die" at the end of GT, as he's seen in both the scene 100 years in the future at the end as well as the end of the TV special. It's never explained what happened to him.

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:53 am

One thing about DBZ that I liked was that it never got too dark or grim

I'm going to assume you mean aside from the mass genocide, scenes of humans hunting humans for sport, heads being squeezed off, bodies blown to pieces, decapitations, killing of children for the hell of it, tearing off appendages, eating and vomitting individuals, etc.

Or were you referring to something else?

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:23 am

Super Sonic wrote:Even though I love Z, I still say Dragon Ball's ending would've been satisfying, or if Toriyama ended it at the Freeza or Cell sagas like he wanted. Though, now that I think about it, if he did end it at the Freeza saga, do you think Vegeta would have been revived, or left dead?

I think Vegeta would have stayed dead. In fact, I think that blast from Freeza that Piccolo took for Goku would have killed him. Thus the Earth DBs would have gone dead again (triggering Goku's SSJ tranformation). The only survivors at the end would have been Gohan, and Krillin. Everyone else would have stayed dead.

Aurek · Post by **Aurek** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:37 am

I don't like, nor consider DBGT to have ever happened in the canon storyline for a few reasons

I agree Gt had the feeling of being committee thought with the "kidz" in mind. But as much as some of us may wish otherwise it is the official continuation of the story.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:52 am

It may be the continuation, and offical, but it's inclusion of movie characters (down in hell) makes it DBZ Move 14 in my eyes.

Aurek · Post by **Aurek** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:53 am

We all know its full of more holes than a swiss cheese but we cant really pretend it dosent exist just because we dont like it. Though I really wish I could sometimes.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Mon May 09, 2005 6:18 am

Well, if you only like the manga, you can ignore it all you want. It's just like the movies.

Leotaku · Post by **Leotaku** » Mon May 09, 2005 7:16 am

I liked it for a while, in the beginning of the series. It seemed like a good idea, it felt like they were combining the adventure and exploration of DragonBall with the fighting of DragonBall Z. I always kinda missed the adventure aspect when watching DragonBall Z, so it was great to see it back. Also, I like the changes in scenery. Most of DragonBall Z has fighting in the rocky plain type areas. But GT has fights all over the place, it's a nice change and variety.
But then I just got bored with the episodes. I was still watching them all, just to see what would happen though. The fights just didn't seem the same either. I dunno, something just felt "off".
I've been getting more interested in the series again though; this evil dragon stuff isn't as bad as some of the stuff before it, to me.

Aurek · Post by **Aurek** » Mon May 09, 2005 7:22 am

The fights just didn't seem the same either. I dunno, something just felt "off".

I felt the same way. I think it was because the fights tended to consist far more of energy attacks and occasional knock-back hits. As opposed to the fast martial arts fights seen in Z.

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Mon May 09, 2005 8:02 am

And Goku felt like he had to have long conversations with his enemies at times <_<

tealsmith · Post by **tealsmith** » Mon May 09, 2005 8:57 am

Xyex wrote:
Super Sonic wrote:Even though I love Z, I still say Dragon Ball's ending would've been satisfying, or if Toriyama ended it at the Freeza or Cell sagas like he wanted. Though, now that I think about it, if he did end it at the Freeza saga, do you think Vegeta would have been revived, or left dead?
I think Vegeta would have stayed dead. In fact, I think that blast from Freeza that Piccolo took for Goku would have killed him. Thus the Earth DBs would have gone dead again (triggering Goku's SSJ tranformation). The only survivors at the end would have been Gohan, and Krillin. Everyone else would have stayed dead.

I actually enjoyed the final ending of the Freeza Saga. I can't imagine really enjoying an ending where everybody DIES that much

. The ending of the Freeza Saga really was the pitch perfect ending for the series in my opinion. The Z Senshi were all brought back to life, Gohan had made it back to Earth. Goku had learned about his past and avenged his people, becoming a 'Super Saiya-Jin', finally proving once and for all he was the greatest warrior. Vegeta had taken off into space, looking for him, leaving the planet bare of pure Saiya-Jins. And the strongest person left on Earth? None other than Piccolo, who a few years earlier wished for nothing more than Goku's death and to control the world. Talk about irony

. The final scene of him standing on the hill overlooking Gohan's house, along with the sun setting, was absolutely perfect.

I have to agree with a lot of people that I'm not a big fan of how Z ended up ending. As said already, more than anything it just seemed to showcase what a jerk Goku's been and going to be to his friends and family.

Hey everyone! You guys are great and all but.... you're all too weak! I can't beat you up and have fun anymore! So I'm going to take this kid I just met, and we're going to go train for 10 years. So.... bye now.

Now, I've never seen the ending of GT (I've never gotton that far) but from the sound of things, it has to be better then Z.

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Mon May 09, 2005 9:00 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:And Goku felt like he had to have long conversations with his enemies at times <_<

That wasnt only in GT. Both Freeza and Cell were big talkers. Super Buu was as well. Hell pretty much every villain in Z talked big. Even Radditz talked Goku's ear off.

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Mon May 09, 2005 9:58 am

I agree Gt had the feeling of being committee thought with the "kidz" in mind.

You mean just like Dragon Ball/Z was? Notice that filler usually includes a child. This is something animation for children have included religiously. Even today the annoying filler child finds its spirit within shows like One Piece, a character the target audience can identify with.

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:17 pm

I think by the 'feeling' of the fights, you might be referencing the terrible and boring choreography in GT. It's sad that the best fight in that series was between Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr., two of the most unoriginal and poorly conceived characters in all of Dragonball.

Aurek · Post by **Aurek** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:41 pm

You mean just like Dragon Ball/Z was? Notice that filler usually includes a child. This is something animation for children have included religiously. Even today the annoying filler child finds its spirit within shows like One Piece, a character the target audience can identify with

Indeed. The difference though is between what was thought up by Toriyama for the kids and what was thought up by Toei for the kidz. The z is important, I think you can get what's implied.

Trunks Master Swordsman03 · Post by **Trunks Master Swordsman03** » Mon May 09, 2005 3:07 pm

Mizugi wrote:Keep in mind Gokuu didn't officially "die" at the end of GT, as he's seen in both the scene 100 years in the future at the end as well as the end of the TV special. It's never explained what happened to him.

That was left up for interpritation(sp.) of the viewers. I take it as with him absorbing the DragonBalls he is now like Shenron, Immortal....well sorta. Goku can be killed, but he does not die of old age (like Roshi & baba).

Pedro The Hutt · Post by **Pedro The Hutt** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:34 pm

Rocketman wrote: For me, Vegito beating the crap out of Buu, killing Buu, reviving everybody and then maybe one or two episodes showing Vegito and everybody else just relaxing and not having to deal with a big crisis.

Wouldn't Bulma and Chi-Chi be kind of upset that both their husbands are gone and that they now have this... bizarre guy who shares a bit of both their traits, but isn't completely the man who they loved either instead?

Personally I respect the mangaka's vision. XD Goku goes off to train a possible successor and things will be A-ok! Because there will always be Kame-sennin!... no wait.
But yeah, I can live with it. =)

Blastero · Post by **Blastero** » Mon May 09, 2005 5:36 pm

I'm going to assume you mean aside from the mass genocide, scenes of humans hunting humans for sport, heads being squeezed off, bodies blown to pieces, decapitations, killing of children for the hell of it, tearing off appendages, eating and vomitting individuals, etc.

Sure it had violence. People died. What I'm saying is the world always ended up back to normal again. I also really hate the whole "we can't end this thing without making some dramatic sad scene where someone dies/leaves forever" crap. I would like it if the series ended with all the characters there. The Z ending I didn't mind, because Goku doesn't go forever.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon May 09, 2005 6:04 pm

Pedro The Hutt wrote:
Rocketman wrote: For me, Vegito beating the crap out of Buu, killing Buu, reviving everybody and then maybe one or two episodes showing Vegito and everybody else just relaxing and not having to deal with a big crisis.
Wouldn't Bulma and Chi-Chi be kind of upset that both their husbands are gone and that they now have this... bizarre guy who shares a bit of both their traits, but isn't completely the man who they loved either instead?

Bulma and ChiChi are always upset anyway, and the last thing they knew, Goku and Vegeta were dead.