Fusion Questions

[Bussani]

Proving you how ridiculous it is to say Vegetto's power measured with a scouter is stronger than measured with an energy device.

It is ridiculous. If you take it into another perspective, it doesn't matter whether you measure how really hot it is outside using Fahrenheit or Celsius. It's still really hot outside even if the scales are different.

It would be ridiculous if anyone said anything like that, but they didn't. Senzu_Bean was just confused.

[Xyex]

Xyex, I don't see that as anything more than a theory.

While I don't have my own theory nor I plan on creating one, we don't know if SSJ Gotenks was stronger when he born as SSJ or was equal to SSJ Gotenks who ascended to SSJ after fusing.

Nothing says they weren't equal and, in fact, all things point to them being so. The most obvious of which is that when Goten and Trunks fused in base against Super Buu Piccolo was only annoyed until they revealed they could transform while fused. Nothing he or the said following this indicated that forming as base Gotenks and transforming to SSJ was any weaker than forming as SSJ Gotenks.

[Senzu_Bean]

Nothing he or the said following this indicated that forming as base Gotenks and transforming to SSJ was any weaker than forming as SSJ Gotenks.

But it should, if any logic is applied in Fusion or Potara.

[Xyex]

Nothing he or the said following this indicated that forming as base Gotenks and transforming to SSJ was any weaker than forming as SSJ Gotenks.

But it should, if any logic is applied in Fusion or Potara.

Umm, no, it shouldn't. Logically speaking, Gotenks should be the same power in SSJ no matter Goten and Trunks fuse in base and transform up, or if they fuse as an SSJ. Why would being an SSJ at the time of fusion magically grant them more power for no reason? The only power gained through the dance fusion is that granted by the fusion itself, which is always the same.

The only way there could be a difference in powers is if there isn't a "fusion multiplier" but a "fusion additive" in which case the dance gives you an A + 20,000,000 instead of an A x 10. Which would result in a weaker SSJ Gotenks when fusing as SSJs (only 20,000,000 points stronger than SSJ Goten) than when fusing in base and then transforming up.

So no. Logically speaking SSJ Gotenks by fusion should not be any stronger than SSJ Gotenks by transformation.

[hleV]

I think it will be best to assume (can we do anything else about it?) that fusion warrior produced by Fusion Dance technique has an equal strength no matter he's born as SSJ or not since nothing implies otherwise at all. And since Potara Fusion is fusion too, we could assume that it works the same way as Fusion Dance does, the only difference being fusion duration, technique performance and theoretical additional advantages and disadvantages of both fusions.

[Ludwig]

Can't we just say this:

Fusion is like : 2+2= 4 (hence adding both power levels together to give a benefit to the actual reason to fuse)

Non SSJ + non SSJ = a non SSJ fusion

SSJ+SSJ= SSJ fusion.

Ether way its the same person but stronger if they hit SSJ form.

I mean, honestly if they fuse as they are both SSJ yeah it would be stronger because it's an SSJ!

[caejones]

If fusion is F=X*(A+B), and SSJ is 50*A, 50*B or 50*F... The distributive property of equality says it makes no difference if A and B are ssj before or after fusing.
(LOL Algebra)
F = X*(A+B)
50F = 50*X*(A+B)
= X*(50*A)+(50*B))

[hleV]

If fusion is F=X*(A+B)

If we assume that Fusion Dance works the same as Potara Fusion, then it's not. If we don't, that's one of a billion possibilities..

[Bussani]

If fusion is F=X*(A+B)

If we assume that Fusion Dance works the same as Potara Fusion, then it's not. If we don't, that's one of a billion possibilities..

We don't know how Potara works, though. Not really. The guide only said (paraphrasing), "It's more like multiplication than addition." It's pretty vague, and I still think fusion is more abstract than just multiplying two numbers.

Does someone have a scan and/or translation of the page in question, by any chance?

[caejones]

Well, we were mostly talking about Gotenks at that point. We already know why Vegetto wasn't supposed to be formed at SSJ from Old Kaioshin.

[hleV]

Well, we were mostly talking about Gotenks at that point. We already know why Vegetto wasn't supposed to be formed at SSJ from Old Kaioshin.

What if I tell you that Elder Kaioshin is an idiot who doesn't understand a thing how Saiyan transformations work? We'll devide into two groups, one believing Elder Kaioshin and one not. We don't take Elder Kaioshin's words too seriously. Piccolo and probably Goku never knew that Gotenks could transform after fusing.

[caejones]

Point made, though Elder Kaioshin seemed to be a lot more in the know than the East Kaioshin (who didn't seem to know jack about jack). I mean, one knew about the potara and the other didn't...